You lost your L8 titan, but don't worry failing empire, we don't want your self-esteem to drop into the gutter where your people will be in just a short time. To keep you from crying, whining, kicking the kids - cat - dog - computer or ranting on the forums about how unfair it is your 1's and 0's got rearranged unfavorably, just build another and Bingo -Instant Esteem. It requires no research, no thinking or even playing good -just turtle up and horde those resources.
Bollux, your Titan died just like your frigates, cruisers, starbases and capitalships. You don't see developers making it so your next starbase has all the upgrades the one just nuked to hell had do you? NO! You don't see research that lets players buy up to level 6 on their capitalships? Again No.
It died. To Quote our illustrious leader...
Ive said this multiple times a fleet will always beat a titan with a small fleet. Titans are severely overrated except for some of their abilities.
No it would not be ok. This has been discussed 100 time titans should not lose any levels upon death.
Weird, I swear this was an edit. Ignore the doublepost
A lot of people in this thread have already said they'd like to see one or two levels lost, so while it has been discussed 100s of times we clearly haven't reach a consensus.
^ This.
At this point I kind of like the idea of just eliminating Titan levels entirely. You get one, it's got X points to spend on whatever abilities you want, and it doesn't get more. Then it's more like a Starbase in how you power it up and less like a Capital ship, simply because both other options suck (having it go back to level 1 sucks in MP because it's helpless against a levelled one, and having it never lose XP is absurdly stupid in SP for all kinds of reasons).
Alternately you could tie it to research for people who want to see Titans higher up the tree. Tech levels 1-4 are to get it built, then the chain continues and 5-8 each unlock more of its ability points. Then you wouldn't have people worried about throwing frigates at it for fear of feeding it.
Having some sort of limit on it's advancement would actually be something I'd like and seems like it might be better overall. By default, they go to level 3. The first research a couple tiers later takes them to 5, at another later takes them to 8 and one in tier 8 allows them to max out at 10.
I already mentioned this before but.. "I think a simple 600 second (10 minute) Debuff when it's rebuilt for example "reintegration". During the debuff period the titan would have reduced weapon range, increased weapon cooldown, abilities disabled (or cooldown increase), lowered AM regen, lower shield / hull regen, and maybe a little extreme but no xp acrued. If you wanted a reason you could argue the new crew would need time to get back up to speed with the old experienced crews way of running the ship". Along with a scaled rebuild cost / time per level.
Actually in this same sort of train of thought: What if titans revived at half the level they died, but gradually regained some % of the lost experience per second(taking about 10 minutes to regain the amount of exp they had before dying).
So a level 8 titan revives at level 4, and recovers the other 4 levels worth of exp over the next 10 minutes(it is of course still capable of earning new exp during this time and may find it's self level 9 by the time the 10 minutes are up).
How to make a long game even longer....
Alot of people in this thread are also single player, players;P
I mostly play single player, but definitely think there should be a penalty to exp for losing your titan. I a thread weeks ago I suggested that when a titan is destroyed it should loose a set percentage of the experience it has already earned. I don't think that a titan should come back with all the exp it had, but I also don't think setting it back completely is right either. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that you don't keep exp on cap ships or upgrades on star bases when they are destroyed, but they are completely different that the titans. Titans are unique in the game, so treating them differently makes sense. So maybe a ~25% loss to experience would make sense, I had previously suggested a 50% loss, but the more I have played the beta the less I like the idea of loosing that much.
That was kind of my points, sorry but single players do not really have much say in balance. I do agree with some of the things that you say but losing any form of level or xp is a nono.
I have always viewed titans as a cross between a Starbase, and a Capital Ship. That is all they really are mobile bases that were given the ability to level up. Because of this I believe you need to have some static factor about them. Continually having to rebuild from the ground up with this sort of vessel would feel tedious and irrational. Players whether they be good, bad, competitive, or casual will at times lose one of these during game play. This only means you have been countered. There have been countless spreadsheets and articles about countering every possible strategy in this game, and this retention of levels is no different from any other aspect. Develop a counter to this titan and time after time you will see it work.
The beauty of RT4X genre is the ability to plan and react to situations in real time. Taking away past progress not only degrades the experience, but cuts off paths to new new tactics. Essentially when playing you are testing ideas in real time, and if it doesn't work, you should be given the chance to play a different way.
A penalty does seem in order when you do lose a Titan, but not one in which you lose progress on what is considered a staple of any fleet now. In a game like this you win some, and you lose some. Losing one battle in a game of this scale should not cause you to lose the war if you planned prudently.
For those that understand some of the things I discussed will see why Titans are the way the are, and only small changes will be made to what is probably one of the best features in this amazing game to date.
Oh, it's this again. Here's a free lesson in economics:
By SD's numbers, over 90% of the people who bought the game don't play multiplayer. That means they're SP players.
When their money outnumbers your money by 9:1, they do in fact get a say in balance. Anybody who thinks the game will be balanced only around the MP minority is delusional, because SD isn't particularly interested in going out of business by ignoring the overwhelming majority of their customers.
Yeah, but quite honestly for those 90% balance doesn't really matter too much. As long as each faction is overall equally good against the AI it doesn't matter a whole lot how certain mechanics work. In multiplayer each individual stat and ability can have an impact, and if its too powerful you get everyone playing subfaction A because human players will only use the most effective tactics.
Stardock's most important priority is to make the game fun and enjoyable for single players, but for balance they ought to base it on multiplayer, simple because balance is the most important thing for those 10% of players. Also what's good for multiplayer is usually good for single player too, and if single players really don't like the system there's probably a mod that makes it better. Multiplayers don't have that option.
Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with any of that. I only take exception to this "oh some people in here play SP, they'll be ignored" BS attitude that some people have. That's not how this works, and past changes have shown that Ironclad does in fact listen to SP players as well as MP ones.
People should abandon that nonsense and instead tell us why they think that losing levels (or not) is a good idea.
Its just its not really a BS attitude that is generally how it is. I mean no offense to SP players but its just how it is sometimes and how things have to be accepted.
Maybe making leveled Titans less powerful (or unleveled Titans more powerful?) would be a solution that would allow losing levels without making Titan loss equal to defeat? They should be a powerful ship, but not so powerful that they will cut through any other defenses easily and the only way to stop them is another leveled Titan.
The game seems a bit too much Titan-centered now.
But what if the Titan is level 1 when it dies? Does it revert to a missionary vessel or something?
I agree, this game has become to titan based.
There's a degree of irony in the video embedded here by the OP.
I play mostly SP in this game but MP in others. You should never balance around the limitations of the AI but rather than the potential human opponents are capable of.
Unless it's late game, the cost alone of building another titan means you've gained a significant advantage not to mention the time of force superiority and opportunity cost on XP you've inflicted.
But essentially isn't that when the game is lost? When someone is rampaging through your systems and have defeated your ships?
What happened in the previous versions? Your cap was lost and that was it. You had to rebuild it and start again. Why so different now?
Honestly I cant see any validity in why it should remain. Its carebear at best and just stupid. If someone has bested you and destroys your strongest defence then you should have to pay the price.
Its no different to someone destroying all my planets and whiping everything out and then the game randomly giving me x amount of planets as a compensation so i can quickly build up and try and beat them again. No difference whatsoever. If you lose your titan you either lose the game or your in a bad spot of trouble. THATS HOW IT SHOULD WORK!
If you ever stand a chance of actually winning a competitive game you wont lose your titan or at least not into a situation where your basically screwed and on the chopping block.
I cant believe how many people actually want this stupid option to be in.
Ill try and be diplomatic... Can we at least have an option to turn it on/off?
I usually only build a fleet with capital ships and I almost always beat a player who has a titan. The only person I can recall that I lost to was Lenin, but thats just because he is leagues ahead of me in skill.
No you can be on par with a person and lose a titan and then go severely down hill. They are not comparable to Capital Ships. All Capital Ships are for is heavy support. Titans are your big dps dealer in one unit that hyperscales heavily even gaining one level on a titan increases their damage by the truckload. They are not comparable and people need to stop comparing them.
Well, i have a level 10 Eradica (i learned to farm pirate bases ) and that thing destroyed a 50+ ship fleet, including a level 4 Ragnarov, on it's own and still had more than 75% of it's health left afterwards. As far as i'm concerned that thing is the god mech it looks like
But that may be because said fight was against the AI.
That brings to mind that it would be nice to see a unit's kill count like in Supreme Commander.
So the entire game should be focused around getting a titan leveld up and then making sure it doesn't die? The way it is now if you and your opponent both have level 5 titans and yours dies, if you have a larger economy or stronger allies you're still in the game. If your titan came back at level 1, you're pretty much finished. Building more frigates will probably just feed your opponent's titan XP making the game larger, and you can't hope to beat him 1v1.
Granted, with the titan price increasing its now impractical to rush getting a titan as your opponent could easily beat you militarily while its building. But if the game lasts long enough as a stalemate most players will get one, and losing a mid to high level titan will be an overwhelming loss if you lose all of the XP.
If you lose your planets you don't have an economy or other assets. With a titan, you do. If you have a better Empire than your opponent just losing a titan should not be fatal. If it were, every other aspect of the game will become trivial.
I completely agree to making losing a titan give a bigger disadvantage to the player who loses it. But losing a the levels will just make the game lose much of its depth in my opinion.
You can make/download a mod. I already proved that's possible.
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