[DISCLAIMER: all suggested modifications to abilities and stats are meant as a proof of concept- the numbers aren't final and are only included to give a rough estimate of the changes- please focus any feedback on the ideas behind the changes rather then only on whether the current numbers are balanced(though numbers feedback is also useful)]
General Analysis of the Role of Battleships
It's well known that 2 of the games three battleships are rather sub-par. Battleships as a whole have been designed to be "pure-combat" ships with less in the way of utility/late game fleet support then most other capitalships, but contribute more in the way of firepower then, for example a colony or support capitalship.
This really should mean the battleships should excel in the early game, when the added firepower of one combat-focus ship to a small fleet makes a larger difference to your total fleet potency then fleet-support skills which scale better into the late game when most of a fleet's firepower comes from it's large complement of frigates.
The problem is of course that it's hard to justify battleships as a means of boltering early firepower when frankly for the advent & TEC carriers posses superior firepower at a greater range with more flexibility(fighters for anti-light damage, bombers for anti-module). I will discuss the firepower of battleships relative to carriers more thoroughly in the next section.
Firepower of Battleships and Carriers Contrasted
The core of this problem lies in the fact that carriers start with 3 extra squads of strikecraft, and by level 10 have 6 more squads then a battleship. By contrast the radiance's weapons exceed the DPS of the weapons of the Halcyon by about 20 DPS at level 1, and somethign around 38-40 extra damage at level 10.
3/6 squads of fighters have roughly 12*3/12*6=36/72 DPS(=48/96 damage against light armor, 18/26 against most other armor types) 3/6 squads of bombers have about 17*3/17*16=51/102 DPS(which is 33/66 DPS against capitalships, 51/102 DPS against heavy cruisers, & 25/50 against most other ships).
There's something to be said about the battleship damage being dependable whereas strikecraft squads can be damaged and destroyed to be sure. But IMO that is more then made up for by the fact that strikecraft have an enormous range advantage and can focus fire(whereas the battleships divide their DPS between banks targeting separate enemies).
The point is even before abilities come into play carriers have a firepower advantage on the battleship- this is not the only issue of course(radiance & Kol have ship specific issues as well unrelated to their battleship status).
Consequently I believe the less powerful battleships could be remedied by improving their firepower. I think the best way to do so is by buffing seperate abilities to improve firepower in ways focused on different types of enemies- that way the player can specialize the firepower of their battleship to meet the situation much as a carrier can be loaded with fighters or bombers to meet the situation(though since skills learned are permanent and can't be swapped like strikecraft the skills shouldn't be too specifically focused).
So What Makes a Battleship "Work"?:
So far the two battleships which are actually viable are the kortul and the discord(we'll see when the vasari are in whether their new battleship is any good). I'll focus mostly upon the Kortul as it fills a more traditional battleship role then the discord(which is as much a support debuff boat as a battleship despite the name).
So what traits do these ships have that the radiance & Kol lack? Well both despite being strong early game combatants with good offensive firepower abilities also have some degree of late game utility(jam weapons & AM draining attacks for kortul, Armor reduction & Lethargy for the Discord)- this is primarily an area which the Kol falls short(radiance has DA).
That said, the biggest area the Kortul excels where the other battleships fail is in it's high sustained firepower and durability via Power Surge. Power Surge allows the Kortul to match if not exceed the firepower of a carrier, and become fairly durable it's self making it a very potent addition to early game fleets which are small enough that capital-ship firepower is a large portion of total fleet firepower.
Honestly I think the biggest problem with the radiance and Kol is just that- they can't compete with carriers in terms of early game firepower. Specifically the radiance lacks the tools(only one basic ability deals damage and the damage isn't really the focus of that ability) and the Kol has the tools(Gauss Railgun can put out some serious damage if spammed) but lacks the AM to keep up with it's ability's AM demands. That said, being that the biggest flaw in radiance specifically has always been early firepower(even in diplomacy) I can't understand why DA dmg/sec was heavily nerfed in rebellion. Seriously it went from 16.67/26.67/33.33 DPS in diplomacy to 12/14.9/17.8/20.7 DPS in rebellion.
The last part of the equation is durability- the Kol has this in spades(it mostly lacks in the previous areas). The radiance however doesn't. EAA is definitely the world of the 4 battleship "survival mechanism" even considering it is passive(this is in large part due to the fact that advent fleet synergy being what it is, by the time a capitalship is taking hull damage it's already in dire straights). That said, personally I think any deficits in survivability are far less important then the lack of early game firepower.
Ship Specific Discussions:
The Kol:
The Kol's biggest problem is and always has been that it has 3 active abilities, two of which have short cooldowns and are primarily meant to just deal damage(which means to really boost Kol's sustained damage output they need to be spammed). The Kol's AM simply can't keep up. Flak burst is particularly an AM hog.
Another more specific issue is that Flak Burst is unreliable unlike other Anti-SC ablities doesn't "buy time". If flak burst doesn't actually kill any squads(as it often won't in it's first shot) your ships are going to take the full brunt of the bomber attack even after using flak burst(which has a very high AM bost btw). Moreover the effectiveness of Flak burst varies drastically based o who your opponent is- Vasari bombers have roughly twice the hull of advent bombers. this makes the ability difficult to balance as balancing it against the advent means leaving it useless against the vasari and balancing it against the vasari will make it too hard of a counter to advent SC. Flak burst needs something new- something that levels it's effect against all race's strikecraft so that it's effect can be balanced accounting for all races.
Because of these first two issues the first change I would propose is to make Flak Burst far stronger, but on a much longer cooldown(less of an AM burden & strong enough that the first casting has a quantifiable effect on the coming bomber swarm).
As many have suggested over the years, making Adaptive Forceshield Passive would help ease Kol's AM problems a bit(heck with it's duration it pretty much has 100% uptime already).
Gauss railgun I don't think needs any new effects, but could use a small AM cost reduction- It's post shield DPS is actually pretty comparable to that of the Jarrasul's Nano-dissembler(whic his IMO a good example of a sustained damage ability), but the AM cost per second of spamming Gauss railgun every 8 seconds is massively larger then keeping nano-disassembler running. If they AM costs were similar the two might be pretty comparable(-50% speed>-3/4/5/6 armor but Nanon dissaembler may be maintained on up to 3 targets).
SO I think my proposed changes would be something along the lines of:
Gauss Railgun: reduce AM costs by 5 or 10 at all ranks
[comments: nothing fancy here, just a modest AM cost reduction ]
Flak Burst: Increase cooldown to 25 seconds. Instead of dealing damage instantly destroys the 2/4/6/10 Nearest squads of enemy strikecraft and deals damage to each other strikecraft in the area equal to 30/40/50/60% of it's maximum hull points(damage still reduced by armor).
[comments: After a great deal of thinking the only real way to make Flak burst equally useful against all types of strikecraft I really felt went with the theme of the ability was damage based on target health. This also prevents later game strikecraft with hull upgrade research from becoming super resistant to flak burst. The 2/4/6/10 squads instantly destroyed means flak burst WILL always reduce the impact of the approaching bomber swarm it is used to counter. Moreover I think it's fair as even at max rank it essentially destroys a squad every 3 seconds on average- which isn't all that far off the rate carrier capitalships produce strikecraft for no AM. Also for those leary of '% of max hull' damage, vasari bombers top out at what? 175*ish* health? the ability would in that case cap out at 105 damage against the beefiest strikecraft(so about 1.5x current effect, less against frailer ships)]
Adaptive Forceshield(passive): Reduces all damage dealt to the Kol by 10/15/20/25% and grants it 14/21/28/35% phase missile block.
[comments: a little bit weaker then the current effect, but up 100% of the time with no AM cost. it's WAY better then the radiance's EAA at the very least. ]
Altenative Adaptive Forceshield(passive): Increases shield mitigation by 4/6/8/10% and 4/21/28/35%
[comments: This one would in general be slightly stronger then the first damage against damage that doesn't bypass shield mitigation, but would be a bit vulnerable to effects that do(with the phase missile block this mainly means it would be weaker to abilities that bypass shields). That said this one also has the advantage of being very simple. ]
Base Stats: Increase the damage of the kol's autocannons a bit- nothing huge, maybe a 10-15% boost
[comments: The greater spammability of Gauss should give the kol some anti-capital ship DPS, this change would give it a bit more anti-frigate firepower- they would also make the splash damage from it's ult a bit stronger]
These changes would IMO fix the Kol's problems. It's AM supplies would actually be able to keep up with it's ability use, It would have more sustained firepower in general(possibly rivaling that of a carrier), and to top it all off it would actually have a strong and more importantly reliable anti-SC ability(actually probably the strongest early-mid game due the the relatively smaller numbers of strikecraft present)
The Radiance:
The Radiance is a bit more complicated. It doesn't even really have the tools at present to compete with a carrier in offense. It's clearly meant to be a pseudo-tank w/ animosity/EAA, but frankly no capitalship can really tank late game so past the early game the Radiance can't really perform this purpose.
That said Radiance can already be useful late game just via DA & cleansing brilliance, so I will focus primarily on buffing the radiance's early game.
First off, boost DA damage. There was no reason this should have been nerfed in rebellion(Radiance was already UP because of lack of earlygame firepower in diplomacy, so why nerf the damage of it's highest priority skill to level up?). That said I would primarily like to buff the lower ranks of it's damage output to target the early game, so perhaps have the dmg/sec be constant at all ranks(after all the total damage per cast already scales up with rank via the duration increasing and getting closer to the cooldown).
I know many people's reaction may be "DA is already great, why buff it?" simple, DA is good enough that it will generally be skilled first meaning any buffs to other skills past rank1-2 don't really see play in the early game...you can only really buff the early game by buffing abilities people actually have points in early game. Buffing DA is practical for this reason(and frankly it's mostly just rolling back an unnecessary nerf to an already UP ship)
Honestly buffing DA's damage could probably give the radiance plenty of anti-capital ship firepower, so next I will focus upon giving it some anti-frigate firepower. The best candidate for this feels like animosity as that ability is already tailored toward wading into a mass of frigates. So perhaps add a secondary effect that improves Radiance's ability to engage multiple enemies.
Granting a bit of extra survivability to EAA may be nice as well(for the taunting battleship it's a bit odd that radiance is by far the squishiest battleship), but is less important then other changes.
Anyway without more ado my propositions would be:
Detonate Antimatter: increase dmg/sec to 25 at all ranks.
[comments: total damage per 20 seconds in trinity: 200/400/600 With my changes total damage per 20 seconds would be: 300/390/480/570 . Still slightly lower at rank 4 then trinity rank 3, but stronger at lower ranks(not to mention it's still better overall at rank 4 as it has an extra 3 seconds of duration compared to trinity rank 3). I think this would be a reasonable way to give the Radiance much needed single target firepower(and frankly being that the damage didn't overpower radiance in trinity this should be fine as well). ]
Animosity: additionally for the duration of animosity Radiance's weapons banks may attack one additional enemy and have their rate of fire increased by -15/0/15/30%
[comments: I know this sounds big: consider the following though: Kortul's 'Power Surge' essentially improves weapons damage output by 25/50/75% and is up 67/71/75% of the time(I don't know the rebellion values). Meaning it cast every cooldown it is roughly a 16.3/35.5/56.2%. By contrast Animosity is up at most 20/35=about 57.1% of the time. With my proposition animosity would constitute a 33.5/57.1/80.7/104.2% increase in weapons damage, but divided among twice as many targets(and dependant on having that many targets to reach it's full potential). The slightly higher damage boost is compensated by the reduced focusfire. As for the other effects: considering Power surge has a better uptime compared to it's cooldown I think it's shield regen is about as useful as animosity's default effect. Also this would make animosity into a great visual lightshow in large battles . Also I realize the rank 1 reduces weapon fire rate seems weird. I initially had it at +0/10/20/30%, but wasn't satisfied with the distribution of bonuses as compared with 'Power Surge']
Base Stats: Shift some of Radiance's base shield points and shield points per level into hull and hull per level so that a larger percentage of it's health is in the form of hull.
[comments: Making more of radiance's health come from hull instead of shields relative to the other advent capitalships would be an easy way to buff EAA without adding anything more complicated to that ability. Moreover Advent capitalships are renowned for squishyness due to their low hull points- having their capitalship that is intended to serve as a pseudo tank eb the only exception to this rule would make the ship very unique in the Advent arsenal(possibly a good choice for combating vasari Evacuators/phase missiles? ]
Conclusion:
Well a discussion of battleships, what makes a battleship "good" and what can be done for the ships of this class which are subpar has been bouncing around in my head for the last few weeks. Sorry if it is a bit of a rant, I tried to structure my thoughts as best I could at a moments notice(though I'll likely be editing this post over the course of the night).
Anyway any discussion on battleships, the general problems with the radiance/Kol, feedback to my proposed changes, or ideas of your own are welcome. Honestly I think the first step towards balancing the underpowered battleships is figuring out exactly what role battleships as an archtype should play in game strategy. I'm sure there's some controversy on the specifics of these issues, so let's hear some opinions!
Ever consider you are wrong Riddleking. Now I understand where everyone is coming from but there are ways around Colonizer antimatter problems. Such as leepfroging colonizer it does increase the rate of colonizing by a bit. If you look at one of my replays I start with the Corsev I had no problems with colonizing. I think you all are to afraid to experiment and just do what you were told to.
Why don't you actually buy rebellion and face me then. I managed to get a computer that can run it now and we can assemble teams and hopefully spawn next to each other.
The problem with that is that you can't balance them properly. In a world where we could forget about balance, I'd be completely with you here, but alas, we can't ignore it. There are really three options here.
Like Volt said this has to do alot with universally good abilities which I explained in another post. YOu cannot actually balance raw damage like that.
Also I have been meaning to mention a very interesting idea someone had a while ago in another thread with regards to Animosity:
What if animosity were made to be targetable rather then automatically applying to the radiance? This would add a great deal of late game usefulness as it could taunt enemies onto your titan/starbase(both far more capable of taking the punishment then radiance at that stage of the game).
Even in the absence of such "big" units, it would be useful to shift enemy fire at a key moment onto whatever is in the best state to take it.
I doubt that alone would make Radiance great, but it's a interesting idea that would open up some new combos and tactical options and would certainly be a step in the right direction. Doubt it would be all that hard for stardock to code either.
Wow. I actually hadn't thought of that. That would be awesome coupled with my earlier idea.
You're right, it would'nt be hard to code at all.
Or better yet, taunt them to fight a defense platform in the middle of an minefield.
Send a couple guardians around behind the enemy fleet and use Animosity. Enemy turns their back on you and you get target practice. At the same time though, movement micro seems more like a Vasari thing, but maybe that's just me.
actually, volt might have hit the problem on the head... what's to stop you from animositizing a repulsive guardian? you've now turned 2 ships into something close to a subverter fleet.
or even getting 2 or more radiances and bouncing the force attacks back and forth..? combine a couple radiances with a couple guardians, and this could be very, very annoying.
Well getting them to run back and forth would certainly be strong. The again if it's just a matter of causing ships to need to turn to attack, the current radiance can do that(albiet not as well as this change would facilitate).
not sure I see the issue With Repulse though- as soon as repulse knocks the enemy out of animosity's radius(which is much shorter then the repulse area) the controller of the taunted ships is able to veto the taunt by issuing new orders.
Remember that the only thing keeping players from breaking the taunt by issuing new orders is that animosity pulses the taunt effect again in the same radius every second- The moment an enemy has been pushed out of animosity's radius(which is something like 2/3 the radius of repulse's push at max rank), the controller is completely free to negate the animosity effect by just issuing new attack orders.
Animosity after all can target titans, and in the case of the Coronata (which has almost no damage from it's port and starboard banks), you could keep a ship in limbo all day long with two Radiances. Heck, you could keep a chunk of the enemy fleet in limbo.. If you had some AM support, you could keep this going all day long and completely nullify a significant part of the enemy fleet.
You could probably just spam corvettes, a couple Radiances, and some Guardians and just anim-repulse the flak all day, allowing the corvettes to run amok.
@Bilun: You can always stop repulsion early.
I'm deeply sorry for being so harsh to those who are not experienced with sins.. I've changed and im a better person now so ill approach things in a more civil and gentle form.
Mayall thinks its ok to open with a Dunov,
Ase opens with a Kol then Dunov,
With enough experience since entrenchment to my recent copy of rebellion which i purchased with the discounts- i have tested many things about the game and submitted bug reports. However the lack of strategic options with regards to capital ship openers usually boils down to.. colonizer + siege cap, 2 carrier caps or a colonizer + carrier cap.
This situation arises because of the following: the best capital ships in the game are colonizers and carrier capital ship because opening with utility caps like revelation, Marauder and Dunovs isn't a militaristic or economic approach and because of this you will put yourself in a really bad situation in a lan or ico match. Its kind of ok for simple ai matches but facing an unfair aggressive ai will make you rethink opening with utility caps.
The maximum effective military opener is 2 carrier capital ships and any other is just experimental because your getting fire-power and a long range assault force.
The Kortul is the battleship that breaks this belief-multiple Kortuls are as dangerous as medium range attack ships and the most effective battleship openers in the whole game.
Conventional thinking will tell you that it is logical to have an economy to have a powerful military or its logical to have a powerful military to help you build a good economy-hence the 2 carrier cap starts or colonizer starts.
The rest of the caps are second or third capital ship choices.
Edit:
With rebellion: advent also now get to open with carrier + battleship or colonizer + battleship "the discord"
I'm still thinking about the possibility of adding a tech upgrade in late game for Caps, just similar what I have suggested, one upgrade for flaks and LFs in mid game.
Then it will be easier to adjust the different balance between early and late game.
The mod I made for that did seem to help, but I rather doubt that they'll add in such things as they would require extensive balancing. As for flaks, I've always wanted some ability for them that could be used to help the capital anti-SC abilities by weakening the SC a bit first, but that's not going to happen at this point.
The true reason i like a kol opener is because it's very tough to kill.
Many, many times I've been playing and someone scouts my opening capital ships, traps them in a grav well, and kills them.
Not the Kol.
A Kol and Dunov opener is my fav because the dunov can give it antimatter and further increase its durability. The kol is also good against militia because it can fire in four directions.
A dunov-kol combo can destroy just about any other fleet that tries to mess with it early in the game because the dunov will let the kol just whale on any other caps with near infinite GRG. This will take down any other capital ship with the exception of the Kortul. Its only weakness is carriers but that can be mitigated with even just a couple gardas.
In my opinion at least it's a very good opening on a really big map because
1) Takes down militiants nearly as fast as a carrier fleet
2) Survivability: I absolutely HATE losing my first caps since all those easy to get xp from militia is gone
3) Can quite easily destroy an enemy's cap then run without any losses
4) Affordability. The firepower offered by the dunov/kol combo makes it unnecessary to buy those easily destroyed frigates at first.
5) Colonization: Upgrading planets is very expensive. If you colonize too many planets too fast you easily start losing a lot of money from underdevelopment. In my experience two colony frigates colonizing like mad is just about the max you can handle at the beginning.
Oh, and for you akkan fans out there, Getting that bonus from your asteroid miners isn't that important. It's quite easy to get your credit income up to 300/second within about ten minutes of the start. After that, why do you need 13 crystal per second when you can get about 8 per second using normal colony frigates and can just buy however much you want with that impossible-to-spend-flow-of-credits coming in?
So, in my opinion the kol/dunov opener is the best the TEC can offer on a 100 planet map(rivaled only by a carrier opener)
On smaller maps it rapidly loses its charm since you don't have enough time to get the Dunov's ultimate. (on small maps my fav is a colony opener followed by carriers or dunov/marza).
Oh yeah, and by the way, sorry for saying i start with a kol earlier. I start with a dunov then immediately buy a kol after that since it's vital to get the dunov's ultimate as fast as possible. My saying that kol comes first was the result of slight inebriation coupled with a typo.
Still... I think it was worth it.
But at least some stats can be improved, say, increase one target at front bank; or increase turn rate, to help them move to the front of the fleet faster; or even increase range.
Actually I would like one passive skill that increase the defense of nearby ships against SCs, since it's reasonable that the precision of SCs are reduced because they need to dodge the attack of flaks. But it's not easy for coding, sigh...
OK, this post is not for flaks. About the battleships, my idea is:
- to increase damage of Kol / Marza and Radiance / Revelation in the late game (maybe Lv7, or even Lv8 tech); Maybe one more target at the front bank;
- maybe also increase the HP / Shields for the 4 mentioned, slightly, say 5%. When the player can research such a tech, he has probably his ships at least Lv4, and 5% is actually not that "slightly".
- I'm not sure if the Cap skills can also be benefited by tech upgrades, and it may cause a lot of bugs, but it will make it more easier to adjust the skills. Say, increase the range of Gauss Rail Gun.
If only we actually had time to get 300 credits/second income in a 5v5 match without getting rushed in about 10 minutes. The resource bonus is pretty vital for just surviving the first couple minutes of a game. The Kol and Dunov being the "late-game" ships that they are has no worth as a starter at least in much more competitive settings.
You want to colonize and militarize as fast as possible. The Akkan allows you to do that.
Riddle and I talk from the very competitive multiplayer standpoint. The Kol and Dunov opener here is virtually useless no matter how large or small the map. Everybody is gonna focus on that Dunov with 100 corvettes or 50 LRMs very fast probably before you can even get your 2nd cap out. So you are just wasting tons of resources here when you can pump out more viable frigate counters. You want more frigates not capital ships in early game since the Titans arn't on the field yet.
If I were to summerize the early game in PvP it would be this.
1. Starting Cap: Colony or Carrier cap (no longer carrier since corvettes make it much less viable).
2. Get 2 military labs and if you are in eco slot then go 2 civilian labs.
3. Use colony frigates on their own to instacolonize your surrounding astroids and moons with a turret.
4. If you are on the front lines then start building tons of frigates in fleet very fast because your emeny will attack you in about 5 minutes or less either that or you go on the offensive.
That summerizes the first 10 minutes right there.
I know, however im not wasting any resources.
I'm actually being as efficient as possible. Trying to keep from having to buy 15 light frigates in the beginning is very useful since those thousands of resources can go toward building, well, corvettes for instance. Its not really that major but it's certainly worth it when you think about the fact that caps really do not constitute much of a fleets firepower. Maaaaybe really early on they do but by 10 minutes in they're defenitley in the minority and fading fast. Im sorry if i gave you the wrong impression. IM NOT SAYING THAT I DON'T BUILD AN ACTUAL FLEET! There we go...
Anyway, those light frigates you have to build in the very beginning to protect your colony cap (which will die against the militia if you send it in alone... unlike the kol or dunov), they die anyway without really making much of a difference against the enemy. They are a colossal waste. Those credits could instead be spent researching trade ports and colonization tech. My point is, i'm trying to avoid using any sort of cannon fodder in the very beginning of huge matches that will just die after a few engagements with the militia.
I can get another cap out in about 240 seconds
I can get a 200 cred economy going with just about 5 non-asteroidal planets.
I don't know how you see this, but all i see is a couple of stubborn guys who cannot even try something new.
And i defenitley don't do this on even medium size maps.
I usually play on huge, random, multistar maps.
Make Adaptive Forcefield free to use, but increase the cooldown. This would allow the Kol to spam its main ability (I'm assuming most people are going to focus on Gauss OR Flak, never both due to AM limitations) while still keeping its damage reduction. Making it a passive wouldn't work IMO, it would end up too strong or too weak depending on the numbers. However leaving it limited by its cooldown keeps it balanced and useful.
And I will agree with most than Animosity badly needs a secondary effect to make it useful. Honestly though I think the ability should just be replaced. It's just not a good ability idea, as it's always going to be sucky or it will become cheese in the hands of skilled players like Replusion.
Actually, giving an accuracy debuff to SC after being hit by FB would take all of ten ten minutes.
Maybe we just need to rethink how carrier caps work?
They are supposed to distinguish themselves due to their huge number of strikecraft, right? Why do they have 3 full abilities like other capitals, then, instead of say, two of their abilities being passive, one increasing the number of squadrons hosted by 1 per rank (and reducing the base numbers accordingly), the other improving the replacement speed but eating up antimatter when replacing strikecraft?
Those two abilities should be the same for all carrier ships.
Then the last ability is something each race is different at, for the Advent I'd keep the +strikecraft per wing.
And the final ability should once again be something specifically focused on being a carrier, again I'd keep the Advent ability.
In other words, make the Carriers all about their strikecraft. That balances them out very nicely IMO, yes they are long range powerhouses, but they add exactly zilch beyond that so it's not like you get that power on the cheap. Plus with 3 strikecraft focused abilities you can no longer power them up, and in the Advent's case you're looking at 3 passive abilities, so this thing has ~0 fleet synergy.
Because to be honest, Carriers need a nerf. Yes battleships have some issues, but the biggest issue is what a big damage lead Strikecrafts offer. Beyond this carrier "nerf" (they'd still be very strong, and the new abilities can be tweaked on a per-race level still), I'd also consider reducing the number of strikecraft available to other capitals, even Titans, and to carrier ships in your fleet. Per-cost, I feel it's too easy to build up Strikecraft, although yes, half of this is the carrier.
Its not going to happen, because all of the carrier capital ships have plenty of strike craft-related abilities. The Halcyon Carrier already follows that formula, while also possessing a support ability, with the Rapture Battlecruiser boosting strike craft damage. The Sova Carrier has two strike craft-related abilities, and an economic ability. The Skirantra Carrier has two strike craft-related abilities and a support ability that repairs everything. In other words, carrier capital ships are already about their strike craft anyway. The two battleships need ability tweaks, a speed boost, and in the case the Radiance Battleship a survivability boost.
A good number of us have been playing ICO for about 1 year or more. The mainstay is usually a 5v5 huge single star map. The reason that multistars are usually no good is because you can lock up a system with starbases and have an everlasting stalemate if both players knows what they are doing and ICO has a history of being a bit unstable in very very large maps heck we have been having instablities with huge single stars.
The 5v5 competitive matchup is usually the bigger voice of the actual balance and strategy in the game. I am pretty sure the guys that played about 4 years have tried the Kol and Dunov opener heck even I tried but I failed with that one.
Also the emeny's homeplanet is about 3 jumps away. Take that condition into perspective and you'll see why you want to instantly expand and fleet not nessecarily build the second capital. Every ship and resource becomes important here. No time or actual need to pump a ton of resources into research except a few basic ones heck some won't even get the chance to use civilian labs till later in the game.
I apologies in advance for all my past indiscretions but i wanted to highlight something of great importance:
Has anyone asked the question of how to utilize battleship openers (2 battleships) as opposed to the other caps.
What is the best way to really increase the efficiency of these caps in game as opposed to asking for buffs?
I believe there is a way--i have done a-lot of game-play with it in the past when i was playing tec night and day and in rebellion is even more promising with the buff to finest hour for the Kol.
I just wanted to know what people think before i throw my proposal on the table.
The entire problem with battleship caps are that they do not provide any early game advantage over other caps. They should be early game beasts, but in reality carriers have the highest total firepower. Battleships should stomp any other cap 1v1 at any stage in the game, but a high level Visari one is the only battleship that's ever really scary.
If nothing else, the battleships need a stat buff. They need some edge over other caps in battle.
Pardon my ignorance but is everyone on ICO playing with the fastest game settings - income specifically? As TEC, I've taken over nearly every planet in a medium system, spamming Trade Ports and Starbases with full trade-upgrades all the way (including the extras with Development Mandate) and I think the highest I've seen on Normal settings so far is nearly 175-200 cred/sec.
*Edit - This figure includes roughly three levels of fleet upkeep.
Accepted, I know the Radiance used to be good at stopping an embargo rush. But thats all it was really good for, and now the sova really is not that good. As for the Kol, remember when I said opening with a Dunov the point is to get that to 6 as fast as possible while having a kol being constructed(as the kol makes a poor opener). And for the record a buff to finest hour probably is not what the Kol actually needs.
Also as for the Kol it is actually very good at killing neutrals.
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