Yup.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/1wl1bm
Dont fall for the fake adds, the replay is the button in the center of the screen, not top center.
p.s: Repulsion outranges sabatoge reactor(I believe so)
Edit: Granted both my opponents played poorly and both reacted poorly even though they had been Red Button'd many times. The imbalance however still shows, you should not ever be able to 1 hit kill a whole fleet unless you have limitations. Wail is based on planet pop, and Barrage is based on if you can disable the abilities in time.
put a scout into the gravity well
if you put your mouse over the starbase. It brings up a tooltip.
within that tooltip, it gives an exp reward value.
An un-upgraded starbase will have a value of 150.
since you can tell if a starbase has health or weapon, or tradeports or aux gov, you can count up the exp of all the visible upgrades. every hp, weapons, and hanger upgrade adds 75 exp. every trade port, factory, and aux gov gives 25 exp, every resupply 30 exp.
lv 1 boom base will have 50 exp above what it 'should' have. lv 2 boombase will have 100 exp above what it 'should' have.
Now, it might be hard to tell if a starbase has 2 levels into factory, or one level into boombase... so i suppose it is possible to 'fake out' an opponent... but that seems like a waste of resources... why are you threatening a boom, if you could for the exact same price have a boom? (and, if he has 7 visible upgrades, he CANT have 2 factorys, btw)
Good tip about looking at the XP value of a starbase Pb. I will keep that in mind...
From novaliths to red buttons-dear god is rebellion going to be the most controversial sins yet? A lesson can be learnt from this----> don't buff the tec!
Ryat and Mayall are not stupid for being unable to deal with Repulse esp with a race with a bad economy, no hull repair cruiser early game and has to rely on this late game tech. (now the domina-hihihi-thats a fun unit)
After all the years of constantly buffing TEC and nerfing other races, TEC could have develeped self-awereness and ability to buff itself. Maybe that's what happened to RB.
LOL
I watched the replay (first replay watched ever, thanks for the tip on how to download it!)
Your team had them by the balls until that advent titan came out with the guardians. I've been telling everyone that that Advent titan is the cat's meow. Coupled with a guardian... nomnomnom goodness. I'm going to make them now.
I would assume that by posting this video, any forum readers will use this strategy, so it's a good idea to plan for guardian/Titan combo in the future. Repulse needs no nerf IMO, just a better planning.
Also, you could have made all those frigates come to your SB instead of avoiding it by using Aux Gov. My son's pissed me off many times with that, I've learned to use bombers. He learned to build his base around that SB so that I have to go to him. Smart guy parks hangar factories and repair bays around his SB with AUX gov so that he gets a big boom (If he has to use it, hes screwed anyway).
So no, SB doesn't need RB nerfed. They put in the buff because no one was using RB. Now they are. Wait til release and happily blow the noobs.
Well played all around, my son and I were watching open mouthed at the wholesale destruction going on. We are cautious and casual when we play, so seeing streams of ships just pour at each other was.... disheartening.
Lessons I learned: Guardians + Titan= ROFLcopters. Bring flak frigates to the corvette spamfest and light corsairs to destroy their flak frigates.
Thanks for the great replay, sorry I don't agree with you=(
These 2 quotes complement each other.
Hush, you!=D I only participate live, not Memorex=D Never bothered watching replays because by the time I got to them, it was already out of date. :/
Um never said I unable to deal with Repulse. Just said it was a long time issue and needs some fixing. I know all about the all mighty bomber spam. It just gets boring after a while.
Considering you did not watch the replay, and everyone who has watched the replay that has stated it so far has said, we were winning until titans + repulse. Also economy, hull repair, and that last part is completely irrelivant to the situation and does not disprove the overpowredness of Repulsion.
Well anyone who plays with me knows I play Advent most of the time, but I do like to mix it up by improving on my offraces. As through improving on offraces you improve on your main race. I think I have a solid TEC lineup, watching the replay I timed most of my upgrades perfectly(Hangar Flak, when to get heavies, even got my hoshikos at a good time). The problem comes with their being no truly effective counter to Repulsion + Rebel Titan. Riddleking will try to say bombers, but bombers get shat on my a Halcyon. And even if he did not build a halcyon in that particular replay, if he did have it the bombers would have been useless. Im just going to write off all his posts as trolling.
But yes a race is eventually buffed through means of discovery. It always happens in every game. Such as evelynn in league of legends went from trash tier to top ban after people figured out you could jungle her.
to be fair they are doing what they are designed to do, they have been the same for ages too, they shouldnt be changed either, they give someone who is good at microing a general advantage if they choose to use it correctly, you were just out played.
Look i'd hate to point this out to you but microing in this game is not difficult, there really is not such thing as "good at microing". Its really just macro-microing which is where you use alot of spells in a short amount of time, if you want hard micro play WC3, I played 4 years of it as an Undead player now THAT is micro. Using repulse, is not difficult. Also just because something has been the same for a long time does not make it balanced. Let me quote myself.
"But yes a race is eventually buffed through means of discovery. It always happens in every game. Such as evelynn in league of legends went from trash tier to top ban after people figured out you could jungle her."
No I was not outplayed I was beaten by an imbalance. Xeno even knew he basically lost im sure he was almost 100% suprised that repulsion actually worked. Call me full of it if you want, but im not going to be modest just to appease a mass of people. I provided facts. People will continue to ignore them. The only thing that people have brought up that 'counters' titan + guardians is LRF's which do 75% damage to heavy armor and get melted by the titan only feeding it experience. And bombers, which halcyons counter because bombers without support is pathetic.
I don't play MP so nobody here will listen to me at all and I'll just be called a noob, but it seems to be something's broken if a ship is countering its counter.
This is probably the most accurate statement said in this entire thread...
Precisely, I don't understand where they are getting the fact that repulsion makes you immune to 95% of the ships in game is balanced also. Repulsion is meant to be a utility spell that has multiple uses, helping your fleet escape being the basic one, and cutting off phase lanes. The problem comes from when almost nothing can actually hit the guardian to do damage to it. No ability disable(that is spammable to stop a group of them), no heavy cruiser, no capital ship(unless its an ultimate ability which is a ridiculous pre requisite.
LRF's deal reduced damage to the guardians and are so squishy more than likely they will just feed the titan. And bombers pretty much counter everything en masse so attempting to play an OP unit vs an OP unit is a false arguement. I really do not see where they are finding trouble with this reasoning.
I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but he has not even watched the replay and persist on antagonizing my post with skewed opinions and clearly biased objectives for why he would not want to see Repulsion nerfed.
Xenomorph should've sent out a scout first before running into that starbase, shame on him. As for the Iconus Guardians, he outplayed you by taking advantage of your fleet's shortrange attacks and his titans awesome attack range. Xeno knew he had make a lot because of all the antimatter needed to keep it up.
There's no reason for you to make a post screaming for nerfs because you got angry.
No it counters to many units, there is no direct counter, bombers does not count. Read multiple posts, sorry for sounding rude. The exact same fleet matched with a small group of Defense Vessels and Halcyons would leave that fleet comp unstoppable. That is all im going to say. And im almost 100% certain Xeno did not actually make the Guardians because he knew they would counter my fleet. Im certain it was more of a panic button, but I do not actually know and im not going to question his multiplayer experience. Thats just what it seemed like to me. I will only say this one more time LRFS is titan XP food, the only actual effective way to kill a titan is heavies and bombers. Repulsion needs a range nerf. I have yet to actually see an argument for why it should keep its range.
People need to stop confusing getting outplayed with game imbalance.
Despite all the arguments going on in here, I'm more inclined to back MayallCommunion ( even though I love repulse ) simply because she's the only one here who seems to know the difference between your and you're.
Don't both Javelis and Assailants using Charged missiles outrange Repulsion? Either one is capable of making guardians dead(especially Assailants with phase missiles).
Also Microed bombers won't be made useless by a single Halcyon. all you have to do is make sure your whole bomber swarm isn't within the range of telekinetic push at the same time, which can easily be accomplished by splitting your bomber swarm between multiple targets and/or staggering the bombing runs of portions of the swarm so they aren't all closing to bomb at the same time. Multiple Halcyons will make it messy though.
Or use your own titans, they match the range of the eradica. the titans that don't do much damage(TLT most notably) can make up for it by protecting their LRFs from eradica long enough to get the job done(If eradica does one thing well it's kill frigates). The TLT could also use Disruptive matrix to buy time to close on the guardians, after which hoshiko demo-bots could shut them down. From what has been leaked it look like both vasari titans also have tools useful in this sort of situation.
For the Vasari, distortion field is also an option to shut down the guardians(slightly outranges repulsion).
While I could see arguments for Repulsion nerfs in general, the situation you describe seems counterable to me.
That said if repulse were to be nerfed it would have to be handled very carefully. It's one of the advent fleet's most important tools.
Javelis: Logical, but im assuming myself as TEC because that was the race I was playing at the time. Im not trying to discredit your post just attempting to cut down a bit. As for Javelis they outrange Repulsion yes, but they are titan food. And feed a titan(especially the rebel titan) like crazy. Its pretty much not worth it to get the Javelis. Hoshiko mitigation is not enough to keep up with the Eradica damage output.
Bombers: Like I have said im assuming that this strategy when used to its max potential is broken. For example Dual halcyon is a common opener for Advent. So multiple halcyons actually is not a problem.
Titans: I'd rather not discuss on this topic until later tonight as im going to go do more research on the subject of the titans. As I play Rebel TEC so the TLT is actually viable. And even if you have played with me it is very rare that I build a titan. As large fleets are far better than actually building a titan(except against the AdventRebels apparently). But in theory I can see the TLT being able to deal with the Guardians as long as its actual range for disruption is large enough. As for the Rebel TEC it seems like they are shit out of luck.
This I agree with.
I do agree as well, I never said it needed a hard nerf. Personally I think if they nerf the range to where they can be hit by most units they would be fine. Merely because this spell should not be a 10 second immunity to everything but javelis and bombers. It should be used for its utility in being able to stop fleets from phase jumping and pushing enemies back to help in a retreat.
Ragnarovs snipe and exposive shot all out-range repulsion..
Ion bolts from multiple akkans only have to get within 500km from there 7000km range
Akkans Armistice disables abilities with 12,000 km from the repulsions 7500 range which means you can micro you fleet in the middle of threat and let all your sabotage reactor, ion bolts, hoshikos disable guardians and kill them off.
Assumptions being made:
A tec player doesn't have its favoured javelis fleet with a Akkan targeting uplink from the start of the game to the point of facing eradica guardian combos. Which means there not playing how people should play tec to win games more efficiently.
Fleet is better than titan ...only when in the hands of a pro with ability and strike craft micromanagement.
You don't need you own titan-which you do against the advent.
You don't need Akkans which do need to be a pro tec player
Did i watch your replay: Yes i did with my Intel HD graphics 3000 with turbo cache memory. (sad but very efficient laptop tbh-smooth gameplay)
Problem with this discussion:
Mayalls ultimate goal is to get repulsion nerfed because he simply finds planning ahead too difficult of a task and very tedious. No matter what answer is given he just ignores it and makes it meaningless and an interuption to his official goal.
He/she believes that Push,Repulsion and titan is the ultimate weapon in the game: It is the ultimate weapon-esp with a race with a bad economy and strong military..out spam them with lrm with uplink with additional carriers or face death at the hands of just a small advent fleet..( is vasari the strongest late game or is advent..think very closely about this when considering this topic and remember advent only get by because of their technlogies and hardly survive late game).
We have had repulsion for years now but why are advent said to be weak late game? Because theres a counter for it and you just need experience to deal with it. Please bare in mind no matter what situation you are in there is always a counter..
Solution
You should change the title of this post and topic to just discuss the RB. It is more important.
Let this be a lesson to all who scream advent titans are weak, advent is weak.. blah blah.... only to Scream in pain when there Synergy combos rape entire fleets with immunity.
Yes there Protoss with a twist and white-Ra would play them
I have to disagree. Much of the point of repulse is to knock enemies out of attack range. if "most units" aren't knocked out of attack range it doesn't really fufill what is likely it's core purpose.
Honestly I think if it were to be nerfed it would need to be a nerf to the duration/cooldown rather then the area. Make it a shorter "immunity to short-range ships" then it is now.
Frankly I think it needs to be able to keep short range ships away- for a time. the knobs I think would be reasonable to turn to balance it would be adjusting how long and how often it can keep enemies away rather then it's ability to do so at all.
When I said this sort of nerf should be handled very carefully I chiefly meant that entire uses of the ability shouldn't be removed- just how efficient it is at that use should be reduced a bit.
Another potential nerf I could see being reasonable is just make titans immune(or even just resistant to) to repulse. But reducing the range to the point where it can't knock most frigates out of attack range more or less defeats one of the chief purposes of the ability(especially since doing so would require something like a 30% reduction in area radius- that's a huge nerf).
If you really think repulsion is OP, I'd advocate removing the "reset physics state" modifier...this is what forces ships to re-accelerate after being hit by repulse...it is this modifier that really makes this ability a cap killer...
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