We did a lot of work on the AI this week (and by we, I mean Brad) and made some significant changes. I even had to ask Brad to tone down the aggressiveness based on a game where I got dragged down and beat like the Goonie kids, if they'd accidently wandered into the Hellraiser movies*.
But the trouble with testing the AI in a game that contains as many moving parts as FE is that it can be very situational. It also has a lot to do with balance. Some abilites are to good, some are to weak and a human is always better a figuring out how to exploit them than an AI player. Some items may randomly swing the game ot much (if you get a berserkers axe in the first 20 turns, etc).
I can only play a limited amount of games per week, but if I can get feedback from you folks we can start to learn form that experience and figure out what is keeping the AI from being competitive. I would love to get the following from anyone who is interested.
1. General feedback on if you felt the monsters were a threat (were they too strong, too weak, or about right).
2. General feedback on if you felt the AI players were a threat (were they too strong, too weak, or about right).
3. What difficulty did you play on?
4. What faction/sovereign did you play (if you made a custom sovereigns, what traits did you pick)?
5. If you think the AI was too easy, what did you do to lead to your success (did you outfit your soveriegn in leather armor, find a good sword and then single handidly kill everyone, did you start producing an endless stream of spearmen and destroy with your armies, did you learn fireball and use it to destroy the world)?
6. Attach a save game at the point where you believe you have the game beat so we can check it out. A save at the tipping point, where you believe you have the game won and have to play it out is more useful than one where the opponents are all crushed because it allows us to see exactly what is going on when the AI loses. If you get to a point where yo don't feel a threat from the AI anymore thats a good point to get a save.
Thanks,
Derek
* If you weren't born in an era where killing a duck with a three pixel long sword wasn't awesome then please replace the above mixed analogy with "beat like Justin Bieber, if he'd accidently wandered into one of the Saw movies."
I haven't been able to play any complete games (time and stability reasons) but I've tried a couple games on challenging/ hard, I generally played until I took over another faction or two before trying a different tactic. Generally I'd say the AI is much improved, and it felt far more strategic (in having to choose what I built/ did). Big step up on the balance and challenge factors lately, which makes it more fun. It does, however, lack richness and variation, and somewhat dims a few of the gameplay aspects of FE.
Per the questions in the OP:
1: Monsters felt about right to me, some weak stuff that I couldn't steamroll anymore with one champ (had to spend a couple turns to heal or spend mana to win at the start), plus some really strong stuff that would be too tough to take down for a long time. I think I would have liked a bit more exp for them, since even one sov in a stack +2x potential traits (so pretty focused strategy) still didn't feel powerful outside of drops before I had to fight other factions. I liked that in one game that I mostly saw strong but slow things (ogres, etc) and another I was facing fast, dodgy stuff like stalkers. Made me change up my equipment preferences early on. I think for new players the monsters might feel overwhelming at the level they're at.
2: AI felt like a threat, the biggest bump being to the champion units, which seemed much healthier and better equipped. The normal stacks weren't all that tough, mostly because my stacks always had a champion along, which was a difference maker.
3: Hard and Challenging.
4: Kraxis, to try something new to me.
5: My two longest games: In one, I tried a city spam technique and a two champ army, my success was mostly due to a weak AI near me that I could take down fast. Also Inspiration+ Meditation (+ Enchanted hammers on my builder cities) and a slightly lower tax seemed to get me ahead warfare wise; even though the AI was sending a lot more stacks, my units had better stuff. Second game I hit a 5/4 starter spot, and went for a one big city tactic, and made several armies of champ + 3 normals. Some good equipment drops helped, and a nearby River Drake that the AI seemed to love suiciding against (it was near a bottleneck of land that connected my area with my enemy). Saw at least 9-10 armies attack the thing before getting to me, never took it down more than 30% of its health. I just went an extra square around to make sure I didn't annoy it, and attacked their cities instead. So more luck than skill on that one
I really like the new AI, but it feels like it really only knows one tactic - to expand and zerg rush. Which is good in a way; its what really works in the game right now, and its what good players were doing to win easily. But it made me feel like I was getting surrounded if I didn't do the same, and that the initial factions vs the world section was much shorter/less defined. In .912 I could quest and fight monsters for a good while, and have lots of land to see before I had to really push to expand or fight a faction. In .913 I mostly felt like I had to rush to explore and kill things, and build pioneers fast, because I'd soon find a large civ with a much larger econ and score. In my one city game I had entire AI armies of 6-7 full stacks roll past me about 30-40 turns in, systematically wiping out all the weak enemies /champs/etc left in my area, even walking through my borders and continuing to wipe everything clean like a swarm of locusts. I guess I could have warned them off diplomatically, but at that point I really didn't want a full scale war, I wanted to scout. And with everything picked clean, and everyone yelling the second I moved a single unit in their borders, about all I could do was camp down and build up to fight the AI that was everywhere.
So I feel like the AI is hard right now (and that's good and adds a lot of strategy), but its not yet rich in depth or really bringing out some of the interesting gameplay aspects of FE that make it so different. Still I know the game is a ways out, so seeing something like this gives me a lot of hope that tough but varied AI's will see the light of day, and that as economic changes come to FE, that more of that fighting the world before fighting one another aspect can really shine through.
0.913 quick observations difficulty on normal, not up to speed yet for harder levels
AI seems to decent job of expanding, last game still early less than 100 turns Pariden had six settlements and was probably on its way to being a powerhouse.
Monsters don't seem to be overpowered near start locations. After about a half a dozen restarts have not seen any Umberdarths, Demons, or overpowering units close to cities. Drakes are also not nearby. Monster stacks seem more active and make for a real intersting game.
I was thinking about the feeling some people have that there is little room to maneuvre in this game because of choke points, and also because monsters are aware of us and we are aware of them, which makes the game map feel small and cramped at times. Wouldnt it be better if we didnt KNOW where the monsters were, and they didnt know where we are? I know its late in the game design process, but it isnt too late. Maybe it would be easy to implement. I dont know, but hear me out...
This idea will make each square you enter seem like a larger place, a more real place, and it will make the game map feel much bigger. You enter the square and recieve a warning such as: " You see the splinters of damaged trees" which is a warning that a bear or other mauler monster in the square. It is like the warning you get about the Inn or dungeon, only it would happen for unseen monsters. Oh, and Inns and such would be invisible too unless you already found them or they are within your Kingdom. Anyway with monsters... Your options are to turn back(in which case nothing happens but that square is obviously a 'no go' for you) , or rush through the square, or track the monster and battle it(expends one more movement point).
The monster also has options and reaction checks. It can ignore/not notice you. It can try to find you, in which case it will now be permanently seen as it chases you and rampages through your territory. In which case you only have yourself to blame. Oh I like that alot. I love it when my destruction is from my own hubris and stupidity. Well i dont LIKE my own destruction, but if it has to happen, i prefer to be hoisted upon my own petard. Doesnt everybody?
An undisturbed monster camp(especially the type that quickly breed new generations) will spawn more monsters and eventually a party of them will emerge and rampage whether you leave them alone or not. The game already seems to have that dynamic. the number in each unit of course goes up over time, and the unit number also increases. best of all, I would also like to see different rampaging monsters combine armies. Shamans stay in back, Ogres to the front... Charge!
Anyway, make my Kingdom feel bigger by making each square a little mysterious. Make the map feel bigger by making some(most?) monsters hidden so i can get around them more easily and this will solve the chokepoint problem. But add extra monster sting back into the midgame(where it belongs) by having monsters cause MORE trouble later by rampaging in bigger units, and even different monsters teaming up into real armies if they rampage into the same square. Ignore them all too long and your entire Kingdom is in danger. I wonder if quests to find a tough monster could be made with only a vague clue("there is a dragon in the swamp to the west") but as usual, you dont know where the dragon is until you stumble on the right square after weeks of wandering around. Now I deserve the uber war hammer just for my patience of marching an army in the swamp for so long.
The whole thing works together and i wonder if the game already has the capability to do it. I know a game cant do everything, but Kael asked and this is my answer to him.
Should the monsters be able to completely wipe out all the Kingdoms and Empires if they are ignored by everyone for too long? Yes. i think so. "Nobody wins" is definitely an option that quarrelisome Kingdoms and Empores deserve.
Now talk to me, fellow gamers, modders, and game designers!
I played as Kraxis on a small map with 3 challenging AIs. The world difficulty was set to hard. I had a lot of fun playing this version, great work!
In regards to monsters I felt that is was too easy to destroy the lairs of a lot of monsters. It also felt like it was too easy to expand early game. There was no real versus the environment phase. Just a mad rush to claim as much land as possible before the AI. Maybe spawn more wandering monsters right off the start so you can't just spam pioneers. Also making lair guarding monsters attack units that are right beside them on the higher world difficulties would be nice. Some monsters like Assassin Demons and Umberdroths should really only start spawning after a time limit, or have a much clearer wandering radius.
The AI was fairly easy to beat. It's main flaw was that it simply didn't use armor correctly on its troops. It had good weapons but rarely used armor except for the occasional Spearmaiden. I just used a few groups of Kraxis' special heavy spearmen in leather armor to dominate swarms of Tarth's unarmored units. I then teched to Blacksmiths and got the special spears and shields. The problem was that I was easily able to level and upgrade those spearmen until they were uber tough so over the course of the war I got tougher not weaker. The AI has to be able to knock out some of my troops but it didn't have the killing power or tactics. Also it still throws some armies at me without champion support which is very risky in this game.
It's tactics also didn't help. In tactical combat the AI still allows me first strike. If they have more movement then me they really shouldn't be moving into my attack range. They should stop just outside my range and then attack next turn.
After defeating Tarth I won by demanding the surrender of the two other AIs. I had 150 faction power and the next toughest Paridan had around 90. Roseln was the last AI. I may attach a save later when I find a easy way to do it.
I also had that strange message where, at the start of the game, one faction died. I think, like the Rust Golems in the water, that the faction spawned in the ocean and drowned.
1. In the early game, the monsters were a threat, especially the big ones like roaming Deadly dragons and Strong army groups. The early game is a lot of fun because of it, but in the late game the challenge from nature sort of dies down and less of the world becomes 'forbidden.' Still, I love how a Deadly rover can prevent early colonisation of certain areas. A real reward for the vanquisher!
2. The AI wasn't really a threat. This is weird since I'm not a brilliant strategist--I focus on the quests and the single characters forever and play the game like it is D&D Birthright. In my current game, I curb stomped my first faction using fireballs, allied with a weak Tarth, and am levelling Gilder with... you guessed it.... fireballs. This isn't the problem, though. The problem is that, despite all the open space and all the open land and their vast idling armies, the AI isn't expanding beyond two cities each. Meanwhile, I have 12 cities. Granted, their cities are all much more sophisticated than mine, but I have more resources and more bases from which to spawn troops. All Gilder does is build world achievements, and all Tarth does is look at Gilder. Something's not right there.
3. Normal
4. I made my own faction based on Wraths. Mainly did this for appearance. Sovereign has Fire ++, Diplomacy, Staff of Souls, then some research booster traits. You can see it in my attached.
5. Main group: Fireballing Sovereign, Healer/Growth caster, Tough as Nails Melee Hero, Hard Hitting (50 damage fire axe) Melee Hero, a group of archers I got from a quest (these guys are the real reason for my early success; they act twice at the beginning of combat, which means I can reduce threats).
6. The only thing I can't beat are the Dragonlord and his Deadly Dragons. However, if I curbstomp or Ally with Gilder (by throwing money at them. I have a boatload), I win the game. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/37552984/New.EleSav
Setting: Normal difficulty/monsters/magic, Medium "Desert" map (there's something wrong - Desert gives me temperate, Temperate gives me swamp), Kraxis with custom Sov (death fire earth 1pt, brilliant, attuned, clumsy, warlock, prociphene's(?) crown).
Game was won having taken path of the mage and hit fire mastery.
Strength is great, minus the bogus exception with AI being able to put outposts down near camped monsters and release them. I dealt rather early with a swarm of assassin demons (who seem a bit TOO strong for the 'weak' category with their full heal) from three different demon lord spawns, and drakes from a drake lair. Fortunately, until late game, the AI didn't trip those and send them my way. In other games I gave up early when I found an earth elemental's army at my doorstep at turn 30 with me having never seen the guy's starting point.
Overall feedback: Love the design and the concept. Similar to Civ5's bandits BUT SO MUCH COOLER - monster bases spawn out unlimited lowbies until overrun (which almost always seem to go for me over AI, which sucks). I can take mites, bandits, baby cave bears, weak trolls early game and feel justified with a "hmm, do I spend the effort to kill that mite army/bandit archer army now, or tolerate these attacks while i keep exploring and solidify?" and then later "oh crap, gotta prepare for drakes, shrikes, assassin demons!". I think there's tuning to do, but the general concept is pretty sweet.
Generally speaking, playing on Normal, the AI players biggest threat has been their ability to build outposts near monster lairs and release them. I frankly would rather see that get fixed before I try hard! Resoln in this game, when I decided to attack her unprovoked, made the foolish move of throwing six or so stacks of very weak militia/spearmen/casters at my level 10 super-caster-sov and level 8 bodyguard (inside a level 2 city) --- we went from on par (~350 each) to me having a decisive leads (~350 to ~200) in the span of maybe 2 turns from Resoln throwing the same troops at me entrenched over and over and over. Still waiting for first real AI fight (looks like it will be against Relias as he's conquered the other half of the world) but Resoln surprised me. It didn't help that their sov spent half the game stuck in a level 1 city right next to a dragon - apparently she repeatedly attacked at got dispatched by the dragon. She still managed to make it to level 7 before submitting to me (neat! but how come I keep her and not her cities?)
(Normal Mode AI)
Upd: So, I steamrolled Relias with my sov + bodyguard + summoned fire elementalx1. Fireball spell ruled the day (and with benefit of whatever, I could cast it on my bodyguard so she could also cast fireball). One of the key points: I almost never ran into a situation where I could be counterspelled.
The good: Relias was on the offensive early, and jumped a decent sized army into my territory, with what looked like two larger armies on the way before I derailed them by taking his cities. That army wouldn't have threatened any of my military-spawning towns, but could have wreaked havoc on my countryside. He had well balanced armies (spearmen + archers + armored types) and had catapults built, on par with my military - in short, unlike Resolyn, he was ready for war!
The bad 1: Fireball spell won the day handily, and was only counter-spelled in one fight. I want to note, I think it worked exactly as intended and it didn't feel overpowered - the one fight where there was another champion, he counterspelled three spells in a row ("oh crap!") but fortunately was rather weak from dying repeatedly - the fire elemental got to him and managed to kill him in two shots before dying under a hail of arrows. I sat there going "wow, I should avoid direct confrontation with Relias, or my 2 man 1 elemental army is not gunna win!"
To kill Relias, I was fortunate to capture a city with a large ownership radius to find him leading a large army on the very outskirts of my new territory. Several strategic spells later, that army was eradicated. [Freeze, Pillar of Flame, Firestorm, Pillar of Flame, gone]. Had I gone toe to toe in tactical battle it would have been much hairier, because Relias wouldn't have gone down in two swings like the seven-injury-joke.
The bad 2: Tactical fights, the AI completely ignored my sov typically, opting to shoot at the fire elemental and/or the bodyguard who got closer for melee. My sov had the highest defense and a half dozen enchantments, but except for the lone npc who instantly counterspelled everything she threw out, they typically shot at the closest thing - the fire elemental. So for me (having ~1500 mana with ~40 per turn) it became a game of "summon elemental, attack, throw elemental up front to take first few volleys, fireball everyone 2x, clean up". The only kink in this plan was counterspelling. Relias didn't have enough NPC's to have counterspell available. I allied with Yithril (who'd been beaten down to one town) and beat him down to one town, then accepted his surrender.
On NPC's: Despite being the worlds largest or second largest power most of the game, Relias only had one follower that I saw. I think I had my sov, 3 npcs, 1 quest npc (elaine) and the sov of Resolyn. I passed on two NPC's simply due to the outrageous cost of the level 7 and 9's.
Kept a few, will upload.
Double post fail
My game was simple. Started a challenging game with large world and full population of sovs, as Resoln. Got to a good start, set up second city early. Turn 64, Umberdroth appeared. Turn 67, he deroyed my secondary city. Turn 79, destroyed my main city. GG
Oh, and he had destroyed another sov much earlier, like turn 10.
guessing the sov "woke him up" by setting city next to him? Then he went on a rampage.
Played about 6 hours yesterday. Challenging (all settings), Large map, Balanced, Dense & epic, 7 opponents.
Custom Sov, Magic (Enchanter).
Game has been rock steady - not a single crash to report. (Win7 64, i7-2600, 8GB DDR3, GT530 2GB)
I'm up to Fall 264 (season 423). I've taken out 2 other Sovs (Magnar & Queen Procipinee) by getting them to surrender. I like the fact that they're now my vassals (champions), but it would have been even better if I had also gotten control of their remaining cities.
This version is the best one yet at keeping me playing one more turn. Oh yeah, it has flaws (it is a beta) - my 2 pet peeves are AI city spamming & AI pumping out armies like they grow on trees. So what makes it fun? I have to really pay attention every minute and work for every inch of ground. Every decision I make has to have a purpose, because there is no rest, it's go, go, go. I've managed to defeat any armies sent my way (sometimes 2 or 3 at once and all pretty tough - no pioneer spam), but for the first time I find myself having to conserve Mana. I've actually almost run out & had to resort to hand-to hand combat (how demeaning for a Wizard) when the waves of enemy armies wouldn't stop. And capturing his cities - wow, a whole new ballgame. I got a couple of his fringe cities pretty easy, so I walked into one of his older ones all cocky & got my ass handed to me. Now that was a first.
Here's my saved game -
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16706254/Jim_913_1_24.EleSav
Now to see if I can actually win, because this ain't gunna be pretty, but it sure is fun.
What I like:
What I still despise:
The AI non-stop spamming outposts/pioneers everywhere.
Ways this could be culled
It's getting there though.. I played as magnar on normal and enjoyed it for the most part, until I realised I would spend 60 minutes chasing down all of Karavox's outposts throughout the game. (this is boring).
I quite enjoyed the outpost wars actually (see pic). I ended up making abunch in the NW to stave off first Yithril then Relias, and a bunch in the NE to stave off Resoyln. Note in the south that when Yithril tried to swoop between three of my towns and pick up a resource via outpost, I fought back with more outposts - drove his zone of control down to nothing (southern box).
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/outpostwars.jpg/
That said -- agree -- MONSTERS SHOULD ATTACK AI OUTPOSTS not just mine.
1. General feedback on if you felt the monsters were a threat (were they too strong, too weak, or about right).I'm liking the monsters in this version. They are strong and you need to pick your battles. You also need to protect your cities.2. General feedback on if you felt the AI players were a threat (were they too strong, too weak, or about right).AI Players are good. I'd say on average they are about right in terms of challenge and aggressiveness.3. What difficulty did you play on?Challenging - and the game threw enough curve-balls at this level to keep it 'challenging'.4. What faction/sovereign did you play (if you made a custom sovereigns, what traits did you pick)?Lord Relias5. If you think the AI was too easy, what did you do to lead to your success (did you outfit your soveriegn in leather armor, find a good sword and then single handidly kill everyone, did you start producing an endless stream of spearmen and destroy with your armies, did you learn fireball and use it to destroy the world)?The AI wasn't too easy and I never really got a stack of doom going like in previous games of Elemental. The biggest 'exploit' ended up having a bunch of ranged units with a couple of defensive units and a champion with the healing spell. The defensive units locked down the enemy melee units while the ranged units wiped out the enemy ranged units first then the enemy melee units. If the enemy melee units repositioned themselves during melee they could have easily made their way past my shield in a few turns and attacked the ranged units (like what a human player would do). What I liked about this exploit though was that it relied on specially designed units and also relied on securing a lot of Life Shards. This wouldn't have worked in the early game anywhere nearly as well as it ultimately did.I also really liked that I needed to specifically gear my stacks depending on the faction I was going to attack. For example, fighting Yithril I needed a lot of ranged units with a few good defenders. Versus Tarth and Magnar I needed high initiative mounted troops. Loved this aspect of the game.6. Attach a save game at the point where you believe you have the game beat so we can check it out. A save at the tipping point, where you believe you have the game won and have to play it out is more useful than one where the opponents are all crushed because it allows us to see exactly what is going on when the AI loses. If you get to a point where yo don't feel a threat from the AI anymore thats a good point to get a save.Saved GameOther notes about the game...* The user interface is a big issue now (if you have time please watch the first one or two episodes of the Let's Play I made of the game)* The pacing at the start is still too slow. Pacing good for mid and end game though.* Could not research a single sword for the whole game. Think the Short Sword is missing?* Resoln was able to attack with troops that moved an enormous number of tiles I think due to the March spell. This spell may stack which isn't a good idea.* Troops entering enemy territory should not be able to use the roads at that point. Was having attacks where the enemy wasn't even seen coming. It meant that once research was done on roads to outposts the roads then worked against me rather than for me. Found this quite frustrating.* Desperately need a way of assigning troops the the front and rear ranks. This makes tactical battles unenjoyable if your placement is not what you want.* Liking the balance of levelling up both champions and troops in the game I played.* A lot of other notes and suggestions etc in the video series.* Overall really enjoying the game and the changes. Please keep up the good work.
1. Monsters are just about right imo, maybe a bit on the weak side.
2. Playing on challenging, I've yet to feel threatened by the AI.
3. Challenging
4. Yithril/Verga
5. Focused research and city building on maximizing growth while killing monsters with my Sov.
6. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/63924402/won.EleSav
This is an early save, turn 25 I think, and I have only met 1 AI and don't even know where his territory is. Still, I'm slightly ahead in power, and I know all my power rating is concentrated in my sov while his is probably diluted by "useless" units, so when I find his territory I expect to steamroll him. Retiring to look at the graphs, I have almost twice the research of the closest AI, and about 4 times more than the slowest researcher. I'm also well ahead in population. Playing on for 10ish more turns only confirms this.
Yes, they are a threat. I stay away from Death Demons and Drakes for a long time in the game right now. That said I don't feel there is quite a smooth transition of threats in the game. Also, the wild creatures don't seem to pay equal attention to the other civilizations like I feel they should. They ignore other AIs and just focus straight on the human player.
Too dumb. I just wiped the floor with Ceresa easy. When I made her surrender to me, her spellcasting sovereign was completely outfitted for melee. Their AI only seems to have one playstyle. I have never seen the AI good at spellcasting or good at ranged combat. The AI seems to shine focusing on a combo of civics and melee technology techs.
Normal because I don't feel like the AI should "cheat" yet in my playtesting.
Custom Arnorian, Custom Tarth, Default Ironeers. I've tried a variety of traits. None yet seem overpowered or underwhelming yet (though some definitely have a limited lifetime of usefulness)
Just keep adventuring and getting better and better gear on my tank sov. Get mana and poor on the melee buffs.
I will see if I can get one. Last game Ceresa declared war on me then capitulated in surrender about a dozen turns later as my sovereign just marched down her road destroying all her unprepared cities and forts. AIs should get ready for war before they declare war.
They need to fix the bug about monsters being as aggressive to AI as it is to the human. Then we would see far less pioneers and undefended territory would see their resources get hammered too. AI would not be able to expand nearly as fast as it does now. Once this is done can sit back and re-evaluate the situation is what I would think. Things would fall in line better I'd think.
After 2 full game as Tarth, challenging difficulty, large world with 8 factions, and one playing Altar (same settings) I have to say the game had a nice feel but faction AI is still under par on the long run. For exemple, in the first game, Altar had a score 3 times mine and expanded like crazy mid game. But I still managed to beat them quite easy: they kept sending me loads of troops, often without their sovereign or potent heroes and all their cities were underdevelopped. One good thing is that I actually had to use troops in 0.913 to win the game (lots of them) and it wasn't easy. The war vs Altar took me a good 100 turns to win and I had to make peace at some point to regroup and reorganise my new conquests. He declared war backstabbing me, which was good, but couldn't manage to properly defend that city after.
Monster AI is sure better in this one. Despite few bugs, there and there, the experience was great. To awswer your questions, monster AI is at a right difficulty (still few tweaks/bugs to solve here) but player AI is not a big threat on challenging: I just needs 2-3 heroes and 4 elite units to destroy loads, and loads of low armor units, even with good weapons. AI needs to learn to gather small armies of great warriors instead of loads of average troops. Never seen AI use a fireball too...
I like the pacing, especially early game. I think the challenge and levelling up is nearly there (at least for the start).
But these are the glaring issues I have right now:
That's it for now. Haven't had a lot of time to play .913 yet, so more feedback to come...
AI isn't challanging:
1) Armor is vitally important (probably too much so) and it rarely armors troops
2) Horrible spell AI. Both tactical and strategic. Although if AI used strategic spells intelligently to game would be impossible to win because they are irresisitable and mana unlimited.
3) Gets into fights with monsters it cannot win. Many times I have seen a Sov in the first hundred turns attack drakes. Also they build cities next to high level monsters kills champion/sov over and over again as it tries to leave the city.
4) Spends too many resources building pioneers for outposts and cities. Does it really need to own every crystal mine within a hundred tiles of its capital? It never seems to spend metal, crystal or mana in any great quantity.
5) Builds cities in horrible locations, next to much better locations.
6) AI gives away first strike even when they have archers advantadge. AI archers still only retreat 1 square. AI never prioratizes targets once it is in combat. If the AI is next to an enemy unit they will never move if an enemy is adjacent.
AI is annoying:
1) Free Tireless march + roads let it cross like 8 aquares in a turn to attack you. Making it impossible to defend outposts and resources.
2) Builds outposts in annoying places, many times I have had my kingdom cut in half by an neutral outpost. Forcing me to declare war to get rid of it.
3) Endless waves of pioneers and heroes running through my territory forcing me to tell them to leave every #$%*ing turn, if I dont want ouposts in my territory or my lairs looted.
I think the AI is getting much better, but there is some major cheating going on.
For instance whats the deal with Life based Sovereign's getting 540 hit points and critical hitting for 250 damage a whack?
Pretty sure I saw a 0/0 city pumping out troops. Not even sure how that exists.
Might be related to the bug that allows them to build outposts deep under my ZOC in rare occasions.
I've been playing this a bunch over the weekend- it is getting better and better.
1) Monsters feel pretty close to just right to me. They definitely beat me in a few games. The only complaint I have is that it seems like sometimes they target the player unfairly over the AI. No idea why that is, and the possibility is that it's just confirmation bias, but I've seen monsters go after me when there are weaker AI units nearby.
2) As for the enemy AI- it feels like Brad's AI, it seems to build well, but doesn't fight that well. I've seen some herp derp behavior, too many pioneers, trying to walk weak units past towns I just conquered, non-optimal use of magic. I do think the AI is getting there strategically, it's the combat AI that needs the most work right now. That said, combat in a fantasy game is twice as hard as a space game, so Brad has his work cut out for him.
- One definite: the AI needs to recalculate its movement paths whenever a city is captured: I think that would stop some of the AI's bad choices.
3) I play on Challenging. I want the AI to fight me on even terms without cheating either way. Challenging world difficulty also, unsure if that's the desired setting or not.
4) I usually play as Irane or Ceresa.
5) Ceresa's spells are gamebreakers. If you level up Ceresa she can one-shot armies with Dirge of Ceresa and monsters with Soulburning. All she needs is a minimal meatshield.
The whole surround and zerg rush, I notice it from the AI as well, and wish other strategies were more viable for the AI. AI would be much more interesting if it could be effectively unpredictable.
My verdict right now: this game can be great, it's good enough now that I'd be satisfied if this was the release product, but the greatness is going to depend on two things: game-to-game variety (not enough right now, it's about by my esitmates 1/2 of FFH at best), and the AI improving.
I'm still laughing that my Spearmaidens are popping up in other folks games.
I've commented on specifics as per the request and my comments stand, however, i've noticed 2 or 3 things that are worth mentioning.
- The AI's do not band together to take down someone leading the field by a country mile. For example, I have 600, the next 2 have 300 each so what do they do, they make war on each other.
- At about level 7/8 my Sov can kill any monster in any stack. Him and his hero can take out the giant elemental guardians, pyre of man etc from the wasteland zones. Either creatures need to steadily get stronger or get stronger at certain key points in the game. I'd also make their lairs muchy tougher as otherwise they get cleared out too easily later on.
- AI does not research armour quickly enough. Ever.
I played a lot this weekend. I played most the games on challenging with dense monsters. I did try a few on hard and with normal monsters but didn't like it as much. This version is much, much better. I think one challenge is that game configuration makes a huge difference in game difficulty. I've found:
- Small maps are easier, AI can't really handle a killer stack (usually heroes in my games) early game and get run over.
- playing with around 6 opponents on a large map with challenging settings gets very interesting. I could dominate through 100 to 150 turns by building a killer stack with my heroes. Attacking an AI early is also good for expanding. but since I wasn't building many troops, it became a big tug of war trading cities and outposts with the AI that had freedom to grow.
- I think the hero skills need another pass. There are still craptastic upgrades like finesse and great ones like potenital I. I don't mind having some rare cool ones, but there should be no crappy ones that will be avoided.
- I found food too hard to come by. I guess if your intent was that players would have to get lucky or make serious investments to get level 3 or higher cities, then you succeeded. I felt I had to invest in agriculture in every game. I didn't see any spells to help my food supply, I think that would help.
- Strength of units vrs. heroes seemed right. A good hero could dominate, but I found it challenging to have more that 1 or two really good heroes.
- I would like outposts to have defensive upgrades. It would be perfect for a tech upgrade
- I think cities are too hard to defend, it might be good to allow earlier defenses. Maybe allowing upgrades for militia and city walls that were not so difficult to get would help. Increased city defenses would help stop early rushes and so many nasty surprises from weak wandering monsters. It is just really hard to make any units if you don't have many cities. I had quite a few games where I was totally constrained for building new cities. I could only get one or two before I hit high level creatures or unbuilldable land.
- The spell that creates outposts feels overpowered. I expanded so fast that I was able to keep casting it rather than build any pioneers for outposts.
- City management is better, but I feel really constrained. I think with slow tech development and the various branches, it is really hard to get any city specialization. All the cities are pretty much the same. I think you need a whole lot more base upgrades, but make them more expensive. This way a player has to choose where each city invests. Only place I saw this in the current build was around army upgrades. I usually only upgraded once city.
- I think the dense vrs normal monster setting could use some work. Having more monsters is good for upgrading heroes if they aren't too difficult. You may need another setting for monster difficulty. This isn't a big thing. Dense feels best to me right now.
- Some of the content did get repetitive, but it was great when I got new quests or saw something new. This is easy to fix and I'm sure a much lower priority than getting the game solid.
- I'm pretty sure there is a memory leak or some other bug that crashes the game after being on for a long time. I played for a while on Friday and left it on the pc until evening. It was crashed by the time I came back to it. I had some other games get slow or crash after having them up for 6-9 hours. Overall, stability was good.
Great progress!!! This was the first time that I've really had fun with the game. Having the ability to tune the challenge to play ability is a key success factor for this game. Too easy or too hard will make folks quit playing. As long as players can tune the game settings to get a good challenge, they'll want to play.
Finished a game on hard yesterday. bloody hell, 2x AI Sov health!! This was actually good, because I wasn't able to opurtunistic and do a quick Sov kill followed up by beeline to their capital (which keeps the Soc out of action due to continuously dieing).
AI expanded about right. Built good armies (hell a lot of them!!) It was choosing good places to build its cities. Still doesn't design it's Sov skill sets very well. The reason I ended up winning is due to a poor strategic choice by Verga (my next door nabour, I was Pariden, so not a good nabour to have...). Verga declared war on me, but Verga was no where near my border, so my champ with it little army and my Sov with its little army were able to slowly push forward. I lost a city due to a bug (I need to post this next), but took it back and forced Verga to surrender (no cities left) and that's how I found he was no where near me.
If Verga was near my border, I was in big doggy doo doo.
I'm about to post some tis for the strategic AI and the tactical AI that should help.
PS: if I wasn't playing Pariden, this would have been a harder game to win due to no insta outpost spell.....
EDIT: I won the game on hard due to a very close but decisive battle. Tactical AI did all the right things, but I burned about 200 mana (path of mage + adept cloak) which got me over the line. 2 high defense tanks protected my Sov (who could have taken a beating anyway) and the tanks kept getting healed when they were 1/4 health, the rest of the spells I cast were damage spells and haste and stoneskin.
1. Monsters were a threat. Wandering assassin beasts and umbers in particular would take out a garrisoned city creating no go zones until I was strong enough to deal with them. I liked this but did not like the fact the AI fractions could build in these areas without risk of attack, even next to a powerful lair that would immediately activate and kill my stack should I dare to take one of those cities.
2. Early on the AI was more concerned with city spamming, grabbing goodies and levelling their sovereign, so didn't threaten me. Later on they were a threat in that I had to fully garrison my cities and prepare a number of killer stacks to deal with reprisals before going to war. The AI knew where to attack me and send stacks to cause trouble behind my lines so I had to be ready for this.
4. Custom sovereign, summoner, extra mana and research, life and fire magic, lucky and initiative
5. There was no point in building my own cities, they get killed by wandering mobs and by the time I had cleared and built troops to garrison with that AI had claimed all the good building spots. So I concentrated on troops, shards and mines and took AI cities, one fraction at a time. Sovereign was a good healer/ ranged magic paired with a tank hero (leather clad + shield) to soak damage and get healed. Summoned wargs (1 to stack plus 1 in battle) for quick damage. Tank troops as per hero. Stone skin and regeneration on front line troops. Picked up obscuring fog asap. Keeping troops alive with heals and minimising damage was key and they just got stronger as they leveled. When 3 AI's left, two of which were at war I took out the third to give me the game. The other 2 AI's only wanted to trade with me and continue their war against each other when I was the biggest threat. Got bored after that so went for spell of summoning.
6. Tipping point was when I took out the 3rd AI's sovereign. I let his stack attack and capture my heavily defended city weakening his stack, all while my sovereign was nearby and then retook the city easily killing the AI sovereign. AI sent other stacks but all along the same road which I only had to block with a killing stack. Once dealt with I just had to mop up the AI cities and keep their sovereign down. I used a second hero stack with cavalry to chase down raiders and recapture lost cities. I garrisoned my capital well with an administrator hero which could come out to deal with raiders. The AI did a good job of trying to get raiders behind my lines to destroy resources and attack cities in my rear and I had to prepare for this before going to war.
Comments: This isn't a game for builder/colonisers, you can't compete with the AI due to monster one way hostility towards the player. This will alienate players who prefer that sort of game. Perhaps the difficultly selector could be changed to select between a builder or a war like game or a bit of both to suit all? AI research roads very early showing me the way to their next city and giving me a highway to conquer along.
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