Beta 3 has been pushed to next week. Sorry for the delay but we want to make sure it is what we want before we release it.
So lets talk a little about what it will include.
1. Monster rebalance. Monsters have been given strengths and weaknesses. There are a lot more vulnerabilites to various damage types, and monsters have a wider range of attack types.
2. Weapon rebalance. Weapons gain new abilities, armor is more effective against specific types of attacks (chainmail is better against cutting weapons, plate mail is better against blunt). Swords have counterattack, all axes have backswing, spears protect from counterattack. All units that don't use their action automatically defend (you can see it in the screenshot below), much as shields used to do. This means that the first attack isn't such a big deal (since moving into the range of your enemy but not attacking means you are defending and will take significantly less damage form their attack). Items (shields), unit design and level up traits can influence how much of a defense bonus a unit gets when defending.
3. More Spells. Candlecloak, Cull the Weak, Fracture, Gift of Iron, Flame Wave, Tidal Wave and many more. If you haven't seen our latest Dev Journal video, check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ArdQVqLHsI&feature=youtu.be
4. Go Big. Spells do bigger things, curse doesnt reduce defense and spell resistance by a few points anymore, it removes all the victims Defense for 3 turns. More spells have a casting time and a larger effect (and the AI is very good at counterspelling so you may want to knock out enemy shamans and mages before starting your big spells). Summons can be placed anywhere in battle so feel free to drop that fire elemental right behind the enemy archers.
5. Or Go Home. Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Constitution have been removed from the game. These were primary stats that effected other things. rather than doing that we will adjust the other things directly. There is still a trait called Strength which increases a unit weight capacity. There are traits that increase a units attack. But they don't have to given together as was happening with the old Strength stat model. Now your warrior types can grab the Strength trait so they can wear the heavy armor and weapons and your archer types can concentrate on the traist that increase attack, critical strikes, etc. Path of the Assassin doesn't offer any additional weight capacity, but does offer attack bonuses, meaning you can do lots of damage but you probably won't ever be wearing plate mail with that champion.
6. More understanable stats. Accuracy it a flat chance to hit an enemy (Accuracy 80 means you have an 80% chance to hit an enemy). Some units have a Dodge that subtracts form this (So someone with Accuracy 80 trying to hit someone with Dodge 20 would have a 60% chance to do so). This way players can clearly understand exactly what bonuses do. A trait that gives you +10 to Accuracy means your will hit 10% more often. That is easier to weigh against a trait that allows you to cast Fireball or gives you +25% to Experience. Spell Mastery and Spell Resistance have gone through the same change, they are flat percentages to have your spells take effect.
7. Faction Differentiation. This is where we have been spending the bulk of our time. As Magnar has their wageless slave legions and the ability to add population from defeated enemies Gilden can create designable Iron Golems if they have enough mana and metal. Though they aren't the best on attack (stay tuned for a post-beta 3 Trog patch to see what that looks like) they are the games best trainable defenders and they take a lot of damage before they fall.
Not all the factions are done, we are concentrating on Magnar and Gilden. But you will find plenty to do with the other factions. Tarth ignores terrain penalties (they move normally through forests, swamps, hills and rivers), receive a bonus when in small armies and get all new bows with higher attack and no metal requirements. They also get Masterwork Chainmail armor instead of Plate Mail armor at Heavy armor, which is lighter and quicker to produce and better against cutting attack, but isn't generally as good defensively as Plate Mail.
Krax gets one handed versions of all the spears in the game, allowing them keep their shields. They also get a Round Shield replacement called the Bronze Shield which gives them an additional bonus versus ranged attacks and they have inherited Tarth's old ability to get +10 defnese when under 50% of their hit points. They retain their +10% per city level bonus to Accuracy, Attack and Defense when defneding cities. Finally Karavox gains the Silver Tongue ability, the ability to spend influence in tactical combat to flip trained units to his side.
8. Some other things, "went home", there are less techs in Beta 3. In general the tech tree is a little thinner than it was before meaning all goodies aren't spread out as much as they were. We really want to make sure you are laboring over what tech to research next. I made some mistakes on tech placement when I put research boosting techs late in the tree when they aren't needed, and I had food boosting tech early in the tree, when they also werent needed. Now education is a 1st tier tech and definitly worth considering vs standing army (spears and wood shields) and civics (the ability to gold rush).
9. More diplomacy options. Whenever you learn a tech you gain knowledge in that category (Civilization, Magic or Warfare). You can trade this knowledge with other players and it is applied randomly to a tech in that category you could learn. If you have 100 Magic Knowledge (because you have been researching a bunch of magic techs) you can trade that to another player and he will get 100 research applied to one of his magic techs. Once you trade that knowledge away it is in the world and you can't trade it to other players (ie: it's gone). We didn't want straight tech trading but this was a good to represent the ability to share knowledge.
You can also demand tribute from other players and they may demand tribute to you. Or you can offer tribute to an AI player that you want to stay on the good side of. If you are powerful enough you can demand that an enemy sovereign surrender to you. If this happens their empire is removed, just like they were defeated but you gain that sovereign as a champion under your control.
10. Better memory consumption (my 500 turn game on a large map last night was only using 1.3 Gb), better performance (Brad is working magic with multiple threads), better AI (we are changing the default difficulty to Easy, the AI is getting to good).
11. Tons of bug fixes, improvements, polish and tweaking. We replaced a lot of the spell icons to make them more clear and distinct, you can see new trees in the picture below. Lots of new traits for your champions to learn.
I see--thanks. I'm not sure I like the change. Or put it this way: I like the change. I like the idea of traits/characteristics, which are much more easily visualized, rather than something called 9 that is raised with still more points in the colorless WoM model. But what's been lost is a system that let Hero A add strength, constitution, dodging, etc, in the mix when they went up against Monster B. I'll be curious to see what formulas are used to substitute for what's been removed.
And of course, some people like the numeric system. So removing those values means displeasing the people who enjoy them. Not too sure that's a wise move, rather than at least showing attribute numbers as a series of absolute (ie, non-factored into combat equations) values for those who visualize well this way.
Basically in the old system you would get a trait that was Intelligence +3. Ideally you would know that 3 points of intelligence raised your xp gain by 6%, your spell mastery by 3 and your spell resistance by 1.5.
Instead, few people knew what intelligence did and it was making the game more complex without making it better (I don't mind complexity, but it has to improve the game). In the new model we have traits that improve your spell resistance, improve your spell mastery and improve your experience. We can have traits that improve all three, though I tend to like more traits that offer bigger boosts in a specific area rather than traits that raise everything a little bit.
Altar doesn't have a higher int that other factons, they get an xp bonus. Ironeers get the spell resistance bonus without having to also have a better spell mastery (this was part of the strength problem, the ability to wear heavy armor always came with doing more damage).
Without the middleman stats we have more flexibility, we can be more granular with our bonuses and the bonuses are more clear.
The only real disadvantage is that, if you are an old D&D fan like me, having those stats makes the game feel very D&Dish. You get some flavor in seeing an earth elemental with 40 strength, or a panther with 30 dexterity. It plays into a vision in your mind that has been established by years of role playing games.
The problem is that the earth elementals 40 strength or the stalkers 30 dexterity weren't the most important stats in our game. So as much flavor as they offered, they were the wrong things to be noodling on. A player shouldn't be considering how strong the earth elemental is, only how much damage it does. They shouldnt consider the stalkers dexterity as much as its dodge, initiative and the fact that it cant be counterattacked.
What is playing an Assasin like in 0.87 now that secondary stats have been removed? Does encumbrance lower dodge? Can you train assasin units?
Derek, thanks for taking the time to reply.
How does that work if you want to repeatedly improve your spell mastery, say? Spell Mastery I, II, and III? I'm not agin' it. It's direct, much easier to "see" than raising a stat called Intelligence, for example, which figured into several equations. I'm just thinking the whole I-II-III business is still a bit colorless, unless you give them ranks, much as you do learning the elemental books: apprentices, adepts, masters, etc.
I see your point. We're used to stats like Strength being raised which control a lot of things, but going to traits allows for greater specificity. The player has more control and perceived control over the development of their sovereign and heroes. And it all feels more real.
I actually started back on D&D in the early 80's, working for public radio in the cold winters in Minnesota, but it never really took well. On the other hand, my wife is a natural draw-graphs-to-wander-through-mazes type, and loves documenting stats for everything in Excel. If I didn't love her, I'd find her scary.
Well argued. Now if you can boil that into a single paragraph, you can make those same points to any of the AD&D veterans who will declare FE isn't hardcore enough because the attributes aren't there. I'll start you off by winning over my wife, but then you're on your own.
Path of the Assassin gives +1 crit chance per level and +50% to crit damage. It unlocks traits that mess with critical chance, initiative and dodge mostly. Impulsive (getting to go first in combat) is an assassin trait now. Acrobat, dodge, vital strike, etc are all assassin abilities.
But the most defining thing about the Assassin path is that it doesn't give an increase to weight capacity like Path of the Warrior and Defender do. There is a trait that all champions have access to that increases weight capacity a bit, enough to get into chain mail and light weapons, or a heavy weapon. But defenders and Warriors get additional weight capacity form their path selection. Allowing them to get into plate mail, big shields, etc. Something your assassin isn't going to be able to do (at least without the aide of some rare pieces of magical equipment).
In other words a Warrior or defender can wear chain mail and heavier weapons without spending any additional traits to do so. One that wants the truly big stuff will need to spend an additional trait. Assassins will be stuck with lighter weapons and armor by default but can spend a trait to get up into a chain mail type weight class.
Thank you so much
Assasins sound like a fun and balanced class now
All due to impulsive?
Sincerely~ Kongdej
Great! That all sounds ideal, and in my opinion really differentiates the classes in a good way. As an D&D guy from way back (we used to snag bad prints of modules from the dumpsters behind TSR when they were still here in Lake Geneva) I'll miss the "core" stats, but I do believe having more relatable and precise control brings more to the party. Kudos!
Derek, I hate you for identifying what I was trying to say, explaining your side rationally, and convincing me to give your vision a chance. Don't you know this is the internet?
Not to disrupt the flow of discussion, but any aprox date for b3? My daughter is about to kill me, as I "promised" her she would have the new beta as of April 12... yes, the game has been bought through my account, but she is the actual buyer, a huge fan of FE, and poor thing, she prepared in advance for last week's release (pre-done homework, etc)... any new release date for her? Thanks.
Nothing more insistent than a 12-year old girl that is a fan of fantasy and magic... help!!!!
The ETA was 12th, but they moved it forward one week, so 19th or 20th is a fair bet. Unless they delay it another week. But those weekdays are the ones they release stuff on usually.
well, the message was more directed to Kael, but thanks for your guess anyways...
Thank god it's not released! I need to finish two more exams. hahaGoodjob Stardock. I love you guys.
Egoistic ....
Snarky and uncalled for....
Sincerely,
~ Winnihym
I love you both... Yours enthusiastically,% Chanter45In all seriousness this looks to be an amazing patch. I look forward to further innovation, I'm glad it's not too much of an issue to scrap something if it just isn't working. Keep it up, can't wait to fire up FE again during the summer. That and Sins, when I can afford rebellion. Woot!
What paths are possible?
Beta 3 Maybe today
well it was the most OP trait an was ruining a lot of spell casters balance
also assassins type werent realy playing like them, they basically ended up being just warrior doing more crits
there wasnt really a good playstyle, lets see now
Azzazell Is this based on inside info or merely wishful thinking?
I am 100% behind all of the changes except for the thinning out of the tech tree. I thought it was just about the right size. I hope new Techs are added to replace the removed techs.
Someone turn on the bat light or maybe the frog light. I need to know whether Beta 3 is "likely" or " it's going to be tight" or maybe "we need another week". I just want to know whether I can look forward to diving into Beta 3 or just continue on with TOR, ME3, or AOEO.
Now logged in under the correct ID.
Lower your expectations dude. It will keep you from being disappointed.
P.S. You still playing TOR?
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