The only way the corvette could be more OP is to give the little sob fighters of its own, then it will, as it's done to Heavy/Light/AntiFighter, make also the Carrier frigate not worth building.
You have to get at least 5 military labs to develop your fleet. You must lay out lots of credits, metal, and crystal, then work up your fleet supply. Finally, you build up your fleet carefully choosing what you think is the ideal loadout. 1-2 capitals leveled up to at least 3. Frigs/Cruisers have all their abilities. Ready to go.
But the other player is Tech Loyalist, but it doesn't matter, who built up their economy with 3-4 civilian labs and 2 military lab and you are screwed without realizing it while your titan builds slowly and expensively. Why are you screwed? It is elementary my dear Watson. This player is corvette spamming and with an average supply of 3 and low cost has 70 of the little bastards just waiting. 70 of these monsters are gonna barrel your first capital with 2100 raw damage on the first inbound run. But wait... your pain isn't over yet because as they race off giggling they fire a parting shot each for another 1750 raw damage. If you had some fighters, they aren't in great shape either.
So, careful player with mixed fleet, titan in the works, 2 capitals doing nifty... 1 just got pounded with 3850 damage on first run. Mitigation aside, on the next pass he nails the other capital, then works through your fleet so the mitigation drops on that first capital -then he pounds it and cycles through the targets.
How to avoid being screwed? Don't build anything except corvettes you silly willy.
How StarClad can make the game fun and not Corvettes of a Solar Empire:
Rescale 3x, make them fit between light and heavy.
Boost cost to between light and heavy cruiser, bump armor a tiny bit, boost Hull/Shields 3.5x, change back weapon to light and able to fire on fighters.
Boost Anti-Titan ability % values 4x to reflect that it now takes 1 ships to do what 4 did previously.
Require Tier 3 research instead of Tier 0 for corvette unlock.
These are anti-titan, so let players get their conventional fleets out and play the damn game as they have all through Trinity, even get their titan out and having some fun. Then, bring out the Corvettes. There is no reason to have such a powerful and spammable ship out so early.
I find them so annoying.
Only way to win the game in pvp: corvette > spam > decent economy > titan > ?? > profit
Interesting strategy.
Just forget caps and frigates. Titan and corvette took their places.
Advent corvette is pretty stronger than TEC one. Buff TEC corvette or nerf Advent one.
Corvette's OPness aside, TEC have a far stronger economy, they'll have more Corvettes than the Advent player, and be able to replace large numbers of them more easily.
Not that they're hard to replace, but still.
Yeah I just played a game Corvettes need a nerf you cannot produce enough Flaks fast enough to deal with them, and if you do you get pigeonhole'd into going LF's
since corvettes are titan counters how about having them ONLY attack titans then they would be less of a nusense since that would take ALOT of corvettes.
@semaz
Good ideas You and I think alike on many levels.
You should check out my post on making corvettes a higher tech for all the races except advent.
This would mitigate the insanity of an early vasari neutral acquisition for corvette spam, as well as early TEC economy corvette spam, while still retaining the necessary early game advent rush capability. The tech requirements could be increased even further so that corvettes would come later in the mid game...even so they are currently overpowered and some big adjustments need to be made to how they are in the game.
here is the post:
https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/421581
I was in a game last night that was all about the Corvette spam. (One guy had 160+ of them and nothing else for his fleet, and who can blame him?) In fact, it even caused lag early-mid game. Why build Long Range Frigates when you can pump out masses of corvettes instead? Why build carriers with strikecraft when 1 strikecraft = 3.5 corvettes in terms of fleet supply? Why build anything other than a corvette at all? Swarms of them kill capital ships more effectively than an equivalent amount of LRFs because they can hunt them down before they can escape, so there's no reason to bring capital ships into the same gravity well as an enemy fleet. Maybe flaks counter corvettes, but so what? Flaks are too slow to chase corvettes down and it's hard to pump out enough flaks to keep up with the corvette production.
They definitely need to get nerfed or Rebellion will be a flop. I'm OK with the addition of the titans, but the corvettes can go.
The corvettes don't have to go and still have a purpose in the game...they just need to be implemented differently then they currently are...
Give factions much more unique uses for corvettes and the developers will greatly influence how each factions early game will be played.
I'm still with Sinperium on this...make 'em planetary defense vessels, cause honestly the combat counter system isn't doing too well with them in there....
What if corvettes where tied to hangerbays and could not be built with the frigate factory?
@ seleucia
Then the advent are right there shafted again, this time before the game even gets official release. There is no need to take away from the corvettes as long as you properly improve the counters against them. Improve flak speed, and improve LRF armor against flak damage so that LRF aren't so marginalized.
Thanks.
My biggest concern with them from the start was lag--which they definitely aggravate. My next concern was a new unit that makes other units superfluous--which is what they are doing now.
I think they are a really great addition--but the "free range" corvette is just too much of a headache in both the lag and balance departments.
I'd see a corvette factory in the same role as a modern LST (Landing Ship Tank). It provides a small number of heavier units to support an assault. Make it require higher tier research and be in the cost range of a capital ship and have to "focus fire" to build corvettes (meaning it stays stationary).
You could still defend systems with them and buff defender's forces better but it would cut the mobile balls back and cut spam as it's taking fleet slots to garrison them for defense. Ideally, a "corvette transport" would be best--not able to construct them but to carry them. Unfortunately, i don't know if game mechanics can accommodate anything like this.
The only other counter I see that lets corvette's stay in their roles is to drop hull and armor down on flak frigates and decrease cost and build times-but then you will have "flak spam" and "flak balls" eating frigates and fighters.
A last choice is to make corvette abilities like the Arcova's demolition attack--one shot, long cool-down and then scale their guns back to minimum.
Well, I agree with the OP'ness of Corvettes, but I had an army of 100 of the buggers, went to attack the enemy...
1 minefield, right infront of my corvettes...
They all jumped into the mines, I lost 83 corvettes to ONE MINEFIELD (not multiple mine clusters together but just 1 proximity mine field)
So the bastards are incredibly weak to minefields, think I'm going loyalist and digging in next PvP game... WHERE ARE YOUR CORVETTES NOW?!
The problem is to spam more mines, to spam more fighters and to spam more flak frigates to stop spammed corvettes makes for a much laggier game.
One other alternatives is to have corvettes posses a limited lifetime so they "expire"--this makes them stay close to construction points and requires waiting until needed to build them.
This way they still remain cheap and available.
A moddable work-around is to turn them into a new strike craft class and alter their abilities to be AoE and not require antimatter. It's not ideal but it is doable.
If someone gets a chance in a 5v5--do a "corvette stress test" where early game each player builds a couple of hundred and see what it does to performance online as the game progresses.
The Advent do not need Corvettes in order to be balanced...multiple times I have seen this fallacy purported, and it is simply not the case...clearly the Advent have issues but there are ways to fix those without corvettes....
I will defer to my original statements that the counter system is inherently flawed...it is beyond the need of mere tweaking, and needs to be redone (which means either Corvettes have different weapon types or flak does not counter corvettes)....
You cannot decrease flak's effectiveness against LRFs unless you tweak the damage tables, and doing so would also weaken flak's ability to take down bombers (which is not desirable)...however, there is a workaround that I have done before that involves a simultaneous change to flak's damage against light armor and flak's chance to hit bombers...
In any case, even if flak were better at countering corvettes, all you have done is made the game a Corvette/LF spam instead of just a Corvette spam...a 2 unit spamming problem is exactly where we were with diplomacy (bombers and LRFs) so I hardly see how buffing flak remedies the problem...
My feelings exactly...
Against bombers corvettes could be the replacement for weaker flak. Bombers still take flak damage, corvettes are spammed to counter bombers... bomber first strike will always be a strength so you will just have to adapt to the encounter, as usual.
Having corvettes in one gravity well as defense is plainly terrible idea, because now that people have tasted the fun that corvette control gives them they will want some more.
Corvettes add a lot to the game as they are, they don't need to be removed or severely nerfed.
Improving flak's speed a little and reducing corvette speed a little would do a lot to help balance the two. Perhaps a cost increase so that the swarms of corvettes don't get so large so fast...that or the production time could be longer.
There are many creative ways that many people have discussed to solve the issue that don't involve completely gimping the new unit by sending it to its room(ahem...gravity well) for a time out.
Corvettes being able to easily retreat from flak is the big issue, they also don't take that much damage while in flak. Perhaps they should?
You may not like this idea (I'm not completely certain on it either), but I'd hardly say it is "uncreative"...it is a radical change that is fundamentally different from how ships have been used up to this point...
For what it's worth, I believe your tweak to flak's speed is the best tweak that could be made at this point...but I'd rather see the counter system completely reworked...we already had enough units to make for a good combat counter system in diplomacy, and adding more simply is not the best solution here...
not to mention that everyone and their mother has a different idea as to what role corvettes should have...
would be nice for the devs to explicitly lay out where they see the corvette fitting in and being used and countered, then we can help make suggestions from that.
What if the counter for Corvettes was shifted to light frigates (presumably can keep up better, though maybe more vulnerable to advanced maneuvering), and their damage toned down against everything but LRFs and Bombers, which really need another counter? The fleet supply can be adjusted as needed for the lag.
have them launch from titans like strike craft and have them be able to only attack titans
Also toying with that...it can be modded, at the very least....
What would be nice is to have a new damage and armor type...but I doubt we're getting that...
I always liked what Rise of Nations did, which was to slightly increase the price of a unit for each one you had. Sadly they seem to be only changing the engine for truly broken things.
I for one enjoy corvettes and their micro capabilities, being able to propagate total war by hitting every gravity well in their empire with 10+ corvettes really has its high points.
I'm not belittling your/sinperium's idea. Its creative, but I think would really hurt the fun of using the corvette unit. I was referencing the other creative ideas out there on the topic, we've both read a lot of them. Its up to the developers at this point, they have more then enough ideas to come about with a good middle ground. Or they could just reinvent them completely and make them even more interesting.
I'm always up for that .
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