I see that the digital download requires Steam... did they abandon the DRM free philosophy? I want to buy 2 copies but I have no interest in the game if it has DRM, including steam.
Thanks.
Well, decide for yourself in this thread (if you read in it long enough you'll see some quotes/replys from Frogboy). But the fact is it will require steam.
Ok, thanks. Steam is DRM, so there is no need to read the thread. I want the ability to play the game in 20 years if I want...and who knows if steam will be around or who will own it. Sad to see they abandoned what attracted so many people to them in the first place. I will stick to AI War I guess.
AI war and Valley Without wind have an insanely fast and easy updater, easy to use multiplayer, and I could buy my multiple copies directly from the developer. Perfect.
Actually it seems it really didn't attract people, or at least those people didn't stick around. The surprising thing in that thread is that most people defended or at the least didn't care about their decision.
Forum dwellers... you mean fans.. actually defended a company? That is a first for the internet!
I can't tell if you are trolling or just really being cynical and sarcastic.
Cynical.
Fans I thought they got in part due to their DRM stance. Mass Effect had a lot of fans, don't see too many defending EA recently (even by EA's standards).
At first I was kinda mad about the Gamestop/impulse sale...
but after reading the Annual Stardock report, I now support their decision to drop everything onto Steam...
Impulse was a detriment to Stardock, and that fact was not obvious to the many subscribers thereof.
And with Stardock's sale of Impulse, their DRM stance became a moot point as they no longer had a distribution service...
Well, I just find two points of Froggy's argument concerning Steam to be odd. First, he said that he doesn't want to pioneer some great philosophy, but rather spend his time making great games. I can't help but think then there shouldn't have been a need for a gamer's bill of rights. Second, is that the backlashed pretty hard against people offended by the move to Steam, stating that people have constantly used the GBoR as justification to whine about anything they do that others might disagree with. This is unusual to me because I was practically unaware of the GBoR and have been on the forum for some time, never noticing anyone bring it up until the Steam move. So this 'i don't care anymore' vibe I get feels like it comes out of some delusional reality.
And I expected that they would make fistfuls of cash going to Steam. I never abandoned them thinking it would put a dent in their pocket. Granted, digital distribution is not difficult and doesn't require some stand alone client. Patches don't need to be streamlined through some automated method. Everybody insists on going with the new, although it's actually more complex in many situations than the old.
They have standards??
Using steam in addition to a DRM free client would be fine. Using it exclusively simply abandons the whole indie mentality that stardock became noticed from. Elemental was a sign that the company was no longer a quality company that cared about their consumers and this just confirms it.
My comment is that only fans hang around these forums, so of course they will mostly be supportive.
I only use steam for $1 games through sales or multiplayer only games where I need to be online to play anyway. The idea of giving control what I buy to a company makes it buy to rent and I won't support that. If Arcen with a handful of people could do both DRM free and steam, so can these devs. Withotu steam, Arcen's auto updates are super fast and easy.
Steam is a necessity in today's PC market. If you arn't on Steam then you arn't going to do well in this PC market. The only ones that can pull it off is either EA or Blizzard.
Indeed, we have no problem letting them sell games on Steam. If its the most profitable place to sell it they should. Its steamworks that is the only problem.
And even then, you can sell through Steam and direct marketing, especially with a product which relies on a known customer base. And I'm not convinced that it's a necessity (especially since games before and since have managed without), but I understand that it takes more effort than letting Steam do it for you.
Even if Steam were a necessity and all games were to be sold through it, I would still understand that some are willing to sacrifice access to those games in order not to bother with Steam.
I run into this mindset a lot in my small town. Businesses here scoff at ideas of actual marketing and real promotion and state, "Our downtown is all we need and everyone loves it".
Then they curse and wail and can't understand why all their customers are going two miles down the road to the newer businesses on the high-traffic, main highway frontage...all while defending their moral high ground and ignoring dropping sales.
Selling games is a business--playing them isn't. Making decisions as a business is a necessity--thinking someone should make your decision is an opinion.
Seeing 200-300 people online playing during a beta with minimal promotion is quite a change. Those people are still there.
Sins is a hybrid-niche game. It has a great appeal for the new player to try (= sales) but it is more of a thinking game and the number of hardcore fans will always be small.
I don't see Steam as a DRM platform but rather a distribution platform. Honestly, the only reason people download games from torrent is because there are so many games that are crappy and cost like $50 just to play for a few hours. And with these days with dlc packs, it is just too hard just to keep up paying for content that should have been released free of charge or should have been part of the original release. I think price has to do a lot with the amount of torrenting of the game you are going to get. If you price it at like $60+ people are going to torrent, price it at $30, people are more than likely to buy.
If you are going to play for like hundreds of hours, it more than worth it to pay for the game.
When given a choice between DRM free, or all the features and convenience of Steam, Steam is going to win most of the time. A lot more people care about what Steam brings to the table then care about Steam's DRM (which is the among the least annoying in the industry).
Developers also like Steam because its a known commodity at this point and it has a HUGE user base. Nobody else on PC is even close.
I know it's a business decision and I'm fine with them going Steam. I know they'll make money and I have no problem with that.
I have my differing opinion, like you point out, and I know that it's just an opinion. Knowing that this game is niche, it would be nice (for some of us) if they made a simple means of getting the game to us without steamworks. If they don't that's okay too, cause I'm not required to buy the game, and I haven't. I don't complain and then go ahead and do it. I know where I stand and I stand there.
Well, I didn't see anyone bring up price, but that's true. A good value is what it is. That's what really keeps Steam afloat, recognizing limited playability and offering sales to make it worth it. Everyone that I know who uses Steam feels the DRM and Sales on the primary level and MP Matching and Community on the secondary.
All this comes down to choice. Everyone has it and everyone should be willing to stand by theirs. Some go left; some go right. Neither should care about the other, especially in the case of something as trivial as gaming.
Lol even Gamestop/Impulse is referring people back to steam.
Ya. I think it is kind of funny that are even games on there that has a second layer of DRM (cough ubisoft games and EA games).
Yeah, well, my dad would rip the computer from the wall and toss it across the room if he had to deal with that. He doesn't have the greatest patience and Steam likes to argue with his computer every once in a while. Between that and dickhead Steamers he runs across, he has to take breaks from certain games lest he decide to make use of his shotgun for something more than home defense.
Steam is huge for DRM. If the service ever is sold or changes their TOS, there is nothing you could do. They own the games, you just rent it. At any point they could refuse you access to the games.
There is absolutely no reason you cannot do BOTH steam and a DRM free version, just like Arcen Games does or even indied like Legend of Grimrock.
I can't think of a single benefit it would give me personally as a consumer, let alone anything worthy of making me pay full price to rent the game. I only play these kind of games at home via LAN anyhow.
I will have to treat this like all other DRM laden games. I will wait until it is on sale for $2.50 in a year or 2 on a steam sale. Stardock's games no longer will interest me beyond that.
If people keep giving over control of their games, be prepared for a future where you rent for full price and have no rights beyond that. You only have yourself to blame.
They don't distribute it, they allow you to download it while using them. You are renting. It is 100% DRM. GOG.com is a distribution platform/service.
Hell, Cnet is a distribution platform, but then the makers waited until pirates got done improving their program for them, for free, and then turned around and sued people for using it.
See this CD?
Now just try to come and take it from me.
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