When I first heard about the titans, I was very excited about the concept. After a few weeks of playing around with them, I am nowhere near as excited as I used to be. The problem is they are not a strong addition for multiplayer.
The reason is the game is becoming a giant game of "don't feed the titan". With Permanent xp and levels, there is every incentive for a player to risk his titan to kill a ton of frigates just to level it up. As a result players are afraid to bring in frigates until LATE LATE LATE LATE LATE game for fear of leveling the other players titan too high. Also, players are rushing the pirate base for experience and the guy who gets the level 3 titan from killing the pirate ships has a massive advantage.
Please, don't try to argue the "well if he goes to the pirate base, hes vulnerable elsewhere". I thought that too, but sins is slow paced enough where you can't deal a decisive blow while he is leveling his titan. Also, you may argue that suiciding your titan because of the cost and build time is foolish but if you take out enough ships to gain a level or 2, it was well worth it, because even if your opponent starts to push on you, you just bring your titan back out into play even more powerful than before and continue leveling it.
The only real and reasonable solution is to make it so xp and levels DO NOT carry over upon death.
Another option - if you want to keep exp after Titan Death: I know that some people have been underwhelmed by the Advent Titans vs the TEC. Why don't you have them keep a % of the exp after destruction? And have that % based on race/faction? Something where the weaker Advent Titans are retaining 100% of exp after destruction but TEC or Varasi are only 33%/66% or something like that.
Probably not too hard to implement and gives you an immediate, VERY powerful rebalancing factor without having to juggle all the other bells and whistles.
ummmmm
Nightraid3r is one of the best multiplayer players we have for Sins...
I think that his opinion carries over to SP also...
Haven't played as much Sins as I'd like and not yet lost a Titan. I wasn't aware that they keep their level though... that's ridiculous! Definitely shouldn't be in the game.
For the record, i play SP only
DAMNIT. I had a long, well thought out reply, and this website decided to eat it and log me out.
Son of a bitch.
Ive just beaten a lvl 3 Advent loyal titan with a lvl 10 and a lvl 6 capital ships with some few Destras. I dont know, u sure is that overpowered?
AI Titan with no fleet support, Vatticson?Also a level 3 Titan is hardly high level.
As stated titans need more counters than just another titan. I think this calls for a Destra/Enforcer/Kodiak buff. Maybe make them do +175% damage to titans so at least in mass they can bring it down reliably?
I'd like to see Titans purchase levels, up to a set level, available ONLY on second and subsequent builds of the ship. That should model "lessons learned" arguments (however the same could be said for capital ships). Heck I'd like to see ALL ships have levels... I like my veteran frigates and crusiers too! Folks might not treat them like cannon fodder as much. Might be too much for the engine to handle though.
I'd also like to see players have "one in the oven" (a Titan sitting in the shipyard) while the one per player is out causing havoc. What a tasty target that would be! The player "risks" having a near ready back-up, with all the credits and resources tied up in it, sitting in a vulnerable position. This might also help ease the "my Titan just got destroyed, I'm screwed" issue, if the player planned ahead. Maybe one minute after the original Titans destruction, until the new one can "finish building" from its near completed state. Oh, and limit the player to one Titan shipyard at any given time.
Add an upgrade on new titans that costs X resources called "Crew transfer" or something similar that allows titans to retain experience levels at additional cost. This would give you the option to re-level or invest more resources to regain the Titan level advantage.
I have been trying to reply to this thread for ages(my other login doesn't have post options?!)
You'd think the Titan would be more susceptible to massed Frigate fleets by design but thats not the case. Something that I think SHOULD be in place is that Torpedo ships should be able to fire on Titans. Unguided sure(or minimal guidance) but a player is spending like 3x the resources on a Titan as a Starbase. It's not asking much as Torp ships comprise a very small amount of a fleet(The most I've used is 4)
Personally I'd like to see more character in the Titans, (Rebels, as coming across as more aggressive) should have more forward facing arcs and Loyalist(as coming across more defensive in ability) should have more coverage of Arcs but with the resulting appropriate spread of DPS.
Currently most titans seems able to apply good coverage and still have a fairly good turn rate, So any Frigates that get in range don't really benefit from manoeuvring.
I never did understand why a titan keeps it's level and experience after it's destroyed. It sounds illogical and it makes losing your titan much less of a loss.
I believe that was the reason. Because losing your titan was a death sentence otherwise.
Except it is necessary, at least to me. If you lose your Titan and have to start back at level 1, you're never getting back in the game, and you'll just be steamrollered by the opponent's higher-level Titan you'll never be able to defeat. Game over man, game over.
Guys Torpedo ships firing on titans is just unfair. It can't be an option because it only helps TEC. Sure the Advent have the Solanus Adjudicator but that ship is awful. The vasari on the other hand don't even have an anti-structure ship so they would be the worst off if you make this change. Since I already view the TEC, and especially the TEC Rebel as the most powerful of the races, it would be a bad idea.
Nightraid3r pretty much hit the nail on the Torpedo Cruiser thing, it only benefits TEC, and a few Ogrovs at range would slaughter a Titan for a fraction of the cost.
The Advent's Adjudicators aren't designed to fire at single targets like Starbases or Titans, their strength is in wiping out large numbers of support structures like repair platforms and hangars at the same time. So they wouldn't benefit from it at all since only one of their weapon banks would be firing. This, coupled with their short range, is why most Advent players consider them worthless.
As for the Vasari honestly between the mine cruiser, phase missiles and Starbases I don't see them having problems killing hero Titans that think they're invincible anyway.
The game shouldn't be one by the first big fight. If all the strategy of the game comes down to who wins the first titan v titan fight than we've completely lost the point of all this. The game shouldn't be about feeding the titan and the titan only.
I thought the whole point of Titans was a decisive make or break unit to finish your enemy. Two entrenched enemies late game will just throw their Titans at each other knowing another is minutes away.
This needs to change. If you lose your Titan and can't recover buy other means or until time you can spit out your next Titan, you deserve or have lost. Myself included.
I don't think the Titans should be the end-all of the game. I love the fact that Entrenchment made the game become WWI in space, and I was under the impression the Titan would just be a mobile starbase with levels. If that's the case it should still be possible to take one out/lose one without the game being over, if its not than I hope it gets changed. My favorite part of the game is trying to figure out if I can afford to assault a planet and making sure I have backups. If bringing the Titan means I'll definitely win unless the other Titan is there, or that if I lose it no backups are worth having than I don't get the point.
I think restarting the titan's level after death makes the most sense, but it would basically make every game a "kill the other person's titan first".
Perhaps they could make it so that with each level gained the amount of XP you get from killing a ship decreases. So a brand spanking new crew+titan WOULD learn a lot from even killing small weak ships. But as they kill more and more of those it just becomes second nature so they don't really gain much experience from doing it. So as a titan get's strong it gains less and less from killing the same ships. That way at later levels the titan gains nothing from killing smaller ships but still gains a lot from killing Capitals and other titans.
Finally I REALLY think that there should be anti-titan ships that are not titans themselves. Titans should be a big deal, they should be scary to face and terrible to lose, but it should be possible to beat a titan with non-titan, non-starbase ships. Or at least cripple the titan severely (maybe this can be the job of corvettes?"
(Do the devs read these, I haven't started the beta yet (that's a disclaimer) and I'm not sure what feedback mechanisms the beta gives. Is it just the forums or are there other means) .
The titan is meant to be another way to break the trench. It's effective at that, but from my experience it's far from a gamebreaking unit. Losing one doesn't mean much, given you haven't spent all your resources into the titan and neglected setting up everything else (this also got you killed in all previous versions). If the titans had to level from the beginning again we'd probably see their ultimates less on the battlefield and people would be less reckless with them, but that's probably the biggest impact.
Yeah, I think the titans keeping some of their levels is inevitable. The player needs to be punished for losing the titan in a way not by losing the titan itself. Many other games that have heroes that keep experience when they return to the battlefield make them take longer to bring back every time, that as a minimum should be done ASAP. We can then see how it works and if any other steps are needed.
I like the idea of losing like 30% of your experience or a longer build time. I think dropping all the levels is too harsh, and keeping them all is too soft.
Yup, no fleet support and AI :_D
I didnt tried to play multiplayer rebellion yet too afraid!
...Then a wet towel could have killed it, the Advent Titans are designed to be used with a fleet. Real players won't make that mistake.
I don't know if this can be done or not, but I think that they should make it so that if you loose a Titan, that the next time you have to build It, it will cost double the resources to rebuild it and each time after it gets more and more expensive. this would put a cap on the Titan really quickly and then make the Titan a valuable asset to have and not rush head long into battle and make it very costly if its lost.
I'm not for taking away the XP or level either. as the others said it will make the game drag out to long that way. XP can get very rare in the later games. I don't want an over grown ship that feels useless later in the game.
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