So I got to play both before they took my toys away! They should have just left the patch out there. We did not care. A new race for us to play with instead of just TEC!
The Advent loyalist Titan seemed pathetic. But I did like the rebel Advent Titan. It had a pair was not afraid to show them.
Bring back the Advent and .75 since you already opened that door and the reverse patch blew up a bunch of our installs and we had to redownload and install again. What a waste that would be for someone that pays for usage or is on a slow connection.
A mi me gusto el titan, era bueno unido a otras caracteristicas especiales de los "advent" leales
To my I liked the titan, it was well together with other special features of the loyal "advent"
Well You have to remember that the whole reason for us even getting any beta's is so bug's and elements of game play can be trialed out. If, and as it would seem was the case, many of the features the Dev's needed to get feedback from were not functioning then it would obviously be a waste of time
Who knows why 0.75 was mistakenly released, but one thing is for sure it certainly sparked a huge amount of excitement about the intro movie, perhaps too much. Taking much needed focus away from where the Dev's would like it.
You can not really be further from the truth. The ALT is a very powerful ship. Not only can it drastically cut all surrounding enemy ship's damage, it will also slow them down. Since the enemy can not deal as much damage, the ALT can sacrifice some of its own DPS in order to try to capture enemy ships. The level six ability (I admit, at first I though it would be very weak, but I strayed from that idea) is incredibly powerful. No longer do you have to destroy a starbase with Induced Reverence or Auxiliary Government, you simple can just snatch the enemy planet away from them and provide to built things like repair platforms, creating more trouble for your opponent.
Both Titans are pretty good, but they don't have the Stats of the TEC titans. Their abilities might be a little bit better overall but I think they need to do some more balancing between the sort of super unit TEC titans and the super support Advent titans.
All the loyalist Titan abilities seemed pretty useful, but I didn't like the Advent titan's ultimate ability. A brief frenzy period after the unit dies is pretty common for RTS heroes, but it only lasts for 60 seconds, which is almost nothing in Sins time. Sure you get 75% faster abilities and 5x faster antimatter regeneration, but the only ability you'll be using is that burst attack as you won't be sacrificing any ships to a titan you're about to lose anyways and the other one is passive. They either need to make it last longer or add another buff like say 100% damage output to make that minute really worth it.
Both advent titans cost less than the Tec's one, tough.
cheaper but a relatively insignificant amount.
But yeah, I thought they both were definitely much weaker overall than the TEC titans.
The problem with the advent rebel titan is that its level 6 ability is under the control of your opponent. Your opponent decides WHEN and WHERE to kill the titan, and they will do so to minimize or completely negate the effect. I would prefer an ability that I control. MY SHIP, MY ABILITY!
Based upon its current design, the advent rebel's lvl 6 ability won't be very fun because of this. This needs to be fixed, imo.
A better Idea would be an invulnerability field that also negates phase jump inhibition. This would allow the titan to do hit and run raids with no losses against very strong enemy emplacements and live to tell the tale. This would make the titan very difficult to destroy as well.
The point of these abilities is that you have a period of time to destroy what killed your titan. As the rebel Advent titan has perhaps one of the strongest healing abilities, chances are your enemy had to bring quite a powerful force to kill it. Unless you tried to retreat and your opponent successfully sent a small force to finish you off, I think there's going to be stuff around for you to use that invulnerability time on.
A better argument I think is that its a highly situational ability. If you're playing the game right, you should never use this ability, while the other titans can use theirs periodically. Now maybe if you're titan could be revived for free like the DOTA style games that tend to use this, I could see exploiting this ability. But Sins isn't like that, as the cost of being reckless with your titan to use that ability probably far out ways the damage you'll inflict with it.
Is it just me or does this seem to be sort of a recurring theme with the Advent? I'm thinking about the Progenitor ult right now... Or perhaps it's supposed to be the Advent version of the Big Red Button?
I understand precisely how the ability works. What I am saying is that I also know precisely how to neutralize this ability as it is to render it totally useless. Your enemy controls the ability activation. You give the movement advantage to the oppoenent.
Your fleet will be at a disadvantage the entire time, because while the opponents titan is using its level 6 ability to full awesome effect, yours is an ability that only works if you mess up, and can be activated at your opponents leisure. this also reduces the utility of your titan vs the other titans.
Lets do a thought experiment on a very likely scenario online:
You engage the opponent with your titan and fleet support. Your fleet has to retreat from the fight in the gravity well for whatever reason (perhaps an ally fleet MUST recieve immediate support) and you attempt a retreat. Your titan, being the slowest ship to retreat will attempt to enter phase space when your adversary, right on your heels actually warps ahead of you or almost at the same time. Your titan remains under constant fire, depleting antimatter to nothing every jump back to safety in home territory. You lose the titan and your opponent jumps out very quickly, because it only takes a few seconds to jump out. The antimatter starvation via EMP would result in the same outcome as well... Waiting those critical seconds for antimatter to recharge will ensure this ability is useless for any practical combat scenario. No mutually assured destruction, in a plausible scenario. This will happen far more often then when the ability will actually be useful, as long as you are playing skilled opponents. Also, when you played skilled players you don't want them controlling when you activate your ability.
Thus the ability is rendered useless, and you have to wait for your antimatter to recharge, even if its 1000% faster it won't be fast enough to really do much damage, players will just run away. The marza ability seems stronger on many accounts, because you can activate it when and where you choose. The time it takes for antimatter to recharge will be enough time for the opponent to retreat to safety. To be even marginally useful this ability needs to completely disable or heavily snare surrounding enemy forces to ensure some level of Mutually assured destruction. The opponent may be able to choose when your ship dies, but they shouldn't be able to run away from it if you suicide your ship into the middle of their fleet. In this way you have some marginal control over the use of this ability, so that it won't be completely negated by an intelligent player. Also, bomber spam will become the favorite counter to this ship to render its ability useless. Not a difficult counter at all, you kill their ship while they don't even get to use their level 6 ability once, and you laugh your ass off because you have been using your level 6 ability for an hour now.
Not being able to activate when and where YOU choose means you have already nerfed the ability by half at a minimum.
Also, this isn't that fun as the player doesn't get to really use their "super ability" and therefore doesn't really have incentive to choose this ability over levelling up another ability.
I say this gives your opponent an unfair advantage, because all the other ships can choose when to use their level 6 ability.
The big red button has more utility, because the player constructing the starbase chooses where and when to build the starbase. The big red button has a much higher fun factor, and its great to destroy players fleets who forget to scout ahead in the endgame.
The progenitor ultimate ability likewise is used when the player chooses to do so, and they choose which capital ship to be upgraded. The point is that the opponent controls the time and place to give the killing blow to the advent titan, and you had better be sure that the time and place will be chosen to the extreme advantage of that opponent. As for having a highly situational ability(which really means it is a weaker overall ability when compared to the utility of the other titan abilities), Titan super abilities shouldn't be of such a low calibur. They should be useful in a lot of situations.
Ankylon- reduces opposing fleet attack speed in the gravity well. An amazing user controlled tactical fleet vs fleet advantage. useful in all situations requiring attack and defense.
Ragnarov- Overcharge allows you to get that extra powerful hit you need when you need it. A practical ability useful in almost all situations requiring attack and defense. Note: this is user controlled.
Coronata- Taking over planets, thats the goal of the game, the coronata achieves it. A player controlled ability that will always be relevant.
Eradica- Highly situational temporary ability that may or may not do a darned thing based upon the tactical environment, and when your oppoenent decides to kill the titan. Opponent controlled ability activation.
See the pattern here? The eradica is far less useful in many ways.
This is clearly a case where unique design comes at a detriment to the fun factor.
I missed playing as the Advent? AWE MAN!!
Here we agreed. They could either redesign it or make it so utterly devastating that when it does activate (and your opponent will presumably need to kill your titan at least once to win) it really counts. Currently even if it was a normal activated ability, it would be "pretty good", not great.
well good, because that is the main point
I've got a big wall o' text, I know, i've got lots of free time to type at work. Thanks for reading it.
Yea it may be better if the super ability would cause the titan to become temporarily immune to damage (or at least have greatly increased defenses) while having the titans weapons do more damage (or greatly increase the titans rate of fire). In this case, it would be a bit like the TEC Ankylons Furious Defense, though slightly different depending on which of the ideas listed above would be implemented.
Well if you were directing it at me, it was a little much for someone who already mostly agreed with you. You just find it a bigger deal about your opponent being able to determine its activation, I find it a bigger factor that it won't be used very often. If the ability gave it that buff randomly whenever it was attacked, your opponent would still control the ability, but it would be activated regularly so its not as big of a deal.
As for wall of text, I can't tell you how many time my rhetoric/writing teachers have grilled into me "short, concise and cogent", so its sort of automatic for me to look for it.
If it doesn't get changed to something similar like this, I guarantee a mod will...against the AI it's a pretty cool ability to use if you dig having 3 vicious players continually throw themselves against some fortress world...even if the damage was insane and even if it lasted longer, a smart human is simply going to get out of the way....they will probably finish your titan off with bombers (which are arguably the preferred unit to deal with Titans anyway), and keep the fleet back...
That being said, the Rebels clearly have a "sacrifice" theme going for them, so at a basic conceptual level I like the idea of this ability...in practice though, I just am not sure it's very good...human players are too smart to get caught in this trap, and an ability that requires your unit to die is a major opportunity cost when there are other abilities to pick....
I agree, its great for lore, just not good for the kind of game Sins is. Now perhaps if they made it more like the big red button, say allow the titan to destroy itself and destroy any target of your choosing in the gravity well, they could keep the theme and make it useful. But that would contradict the opening cinematic, as it seems to be using that ability when it fights the loyalist titan. Honestly I thought it was a sort of cloak or something, but it could make a good damage or temporary invulnerability buff too.
I explain the "why" aspect and the reasoning behind my point of view to assist others in seeing my point. Without the "why", its just a baseless opinion that means jack didley. Takes more text though, its true!
When the eradica can use its ability it has the large potential of being useless, because your opponent has so much control over WHEN the ability works.
Its like throwing a punch that your opponent tells you when to throw it(and you can't resist, because your opponent it bene gesserit).
I am glad you also agree with me on my secondary point (in the wall of text above), that when other titans are set up to gain advantage with their abilities(and using them often), the eradica is set up that when it fails, it will possibly succeed. What a recipe for failure against skilled opponents.
I say it differently, but the point is still the same, we agree that we won't be using it often.
They get the eradica early and its cheaper-which means you can add support caps like raptures (vertigo) and discords (fracture) which is the whole point. Go try and see just how powerful this Titan becomes with its debuff caps.
So what happens when the Eradica uses Purification to repair itself fast enough and has escaped a gravity well during its 60 sec level six ability? Im assuming its to give you 60 secs to escape and repair-cheating death
Hang on, about Sareth's hypothetical: Doesn't EMP Burst not work on Titans?
I haven't found many specials that do work on Titans. I know EMP doesn't, or didn't in the last game I played.
As of v.62, EMP, Lethargy, and Disruptive Strikes are the only cap abilities that affect titans' ability usage....
Detonate Antimatter?
Nope RiddleKing.
Well that's just bizarre. Detonate AM doesn't work and yet EMP does?Edit - Though I guess it's because Detonate AM also disables abilities.
EMP Charge is going to be a massive problem for Advent Titans.
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