I have played sins for a long time now. Recently I bought a pre-order and gained access to the beta.
After playing for an hour or two I quickly realised that most of the content (To my mind about 80 to 85%) is really just carry over from the last sins plus the three "micro" expansions. Apart from the inclusion of titan class vessels, the game plays out just like diplomacy. My heart sank as the realisation came to me that my beloved game's sequel was not all what I had hoped for or even expected to become.
So I have to ask myself, is this game a true sequel or just a rehash which includes some extra content?
On one hand we see the split in the races into factions, but those factions (on the surface) really represent a difference in Titans. One being aggressive, the other defensive. True there may be other technology tree research to be had, but these are really just attribute changes at heart.
In a nutshell, Split factions in sins should have much less in common with each other(like rebels having loyalist killing tech like misslile crusers, instead of frigates) than we currently see. I suppose then my real burning question is, will we see a real "fracturing" of each race, in terms of different frigates and cruisers. Or will we see what we have already seen in the BETA, an almost pointless split of each race that amounts to very little?
Rebellion needs to be a reinvention of itself. otherwise what is the point other than to make money (which it wont do if it doesn't offer any real change from its predecessor?). What would a game critic say about sins in a review? My guess would be that he would say something similar to what Ive just mentioned here.
Thanks for a taking the time to read this. Discussion is gladly welcomed.
And so it begins. You might not realize this thread has already been done several times now.
Before any announcement was made, people were clamoring for "Sins II"
Know what the devs said over and over and over and over? "No".
For years there was wailing an gnashing of teeth and cries of, "WHYYYYYY!?" and "KHAAAAAAN!"...yet consistently the devs responded with the word, "No".
Many a flame was unleashed, fanned and extinguished or allowed to burn itself to ashes...yet the "No" remained in every case.
Then--with no warning or prior expectations--Rebellion was announced. It was made clear at conception it would ADD to the previous releases and optimize the existing engine and provide some new concepts--though with all the aforementioned caveats still in effect.
Somehow--lurking beneath the stands--were those few people still searching for vindication or revenge. As details of Rebellion came forth, they emerged from under the bleachers, sewer grates and dumpsters beating their cans and crying in outrage.
What were they crying? "WHHHHHY!? and "KHAAAAAAN!".
I imagine there will not be any official comment here as no one listened to previous official comments. There actually is a lot of new stuff in the "mod"--but you'll have to accept it for what it is in order to see it and not hold onto what you thought it was in your head.
I never expected a complete overhaul and it is in some ways an expansion of previous content as opposed to "a new creature". But I was never led to believe that it would be a completely "different" game.
To start though, they have already turned upside down previous strategies and tactics, greatly improved the graphics quality and made the game have more content and to be more stable.
I'll take it without crying, "Foul"...or, "KHAAAAAAAN!".
To sum up the above with less mocking and dramatization:
It's a stand-alone expansion, not a sequel.
I would also like to point out this, what did you expect you were getting for 29 dollars? Oooh enemy fleet just warped in time to show em who owns this corner of the galaxy muhaahaa.
what we wanted... SINS II, 64-bit, campaign + editor, massive map with true large-scale empire building and warfare
what starclad is giving us. Trinity features in back, Rebellion content up front. LOL. Poor Engine. HAAHHA
Click me, I dare you
Yes...but I found my mocking dramatization more entertaining.
There's no problem discussing what the game content is but the, "I was ripped off!" stuff is the real drama.
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!
That's Brilliant, "KHAAAAAAN!".
On the other hand, those that say you can't describe sarcasm properly in writing, have not read any of your posts.
I still think that I'm right on some things though. Firstly if you make rebels then those rebels should act differently, think differently and just be simply different. That means use their technology in ways that suit their philosophy. We see this with their Titan, it's a heavy attacker. But all their other junk (frigates, crusers, even the new corvettes) is the same as the loyalist faction. I find it conceptually weak and either a sign of poor idea development. Or in the worst case ICO are being lazy and don't want to have to go through the bid spiel of having to rebalance the entire game.
Either they have released a sequel and used thier "marketing savvy" to call it a "Stand alone expansion"when really its just a poor sequel WHICH could have been amazing but came of as more of the same.
I think in the end that most critics will take a cold look like myself and the game will have far less impact as the original did.
Now thats enough Blah blah.
p.s. "KHAAAAAAN!"
Think of it this way, even if it seems the amount of the new content would be generally not enough for you to buy the game, you will still do it, because you will finance this way future development of proper Sins sequel. If you do not buy it now, there might be now other Sins for you to buy in the future. Cruel, but unfortunately, this kind of game does not sell like Call of Duty.
I think Rebellion is going to be great hit.
They are adding exactly the kind of feature which resonates with great many players - bigger badder toys to play with and more factions. Plus it is going to be released on steam.
I personally hope Rebellion is not the last expansion for SoaSE. Sequel would inevitably have much fewer features than a game with three expansions (which could lead to great disappointment). Also, it would be very easy to ride on the "dumbification" wave on which the rest of the industry is riding, making the game simpler than the original. This can't really happen with an expansion.
How can you even make those remarks if the game is still in beta and it doesn't even have the full content?
To be fair, Rebellion is more of a game for people who didn't play the Trinity and now have the opportunity to play the game with new features and improved graphics. Until now, they said everything that would be in the game (no "new" surprises), so I don't see how anyone could even not know how Rebellion would be. If you are not enjoying the Beta (yeah, not the game, since it's still in development) then it's your own fault, or you should just wait when the actual full game is released.
The reason for it being released as it is instead of as another micro expansion is because of all the Steam integration.
They also never claimed it was a sequel, ever, there were always supposed to be 3 expansions.
Rebellion is to Sins what Forged Alliance was to Supreme Commander. Its not an expansion its not a sequel. Slightly less that a sequel, slightly more than expansion, it shall henceforth be known as EXPANQUEL!!!!
Could it be possible that Sins 2 be a space opera/rts?
Such as Nexus tji?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WK0icZpCiA)
EXPANQUEL!!!!
LOL
I move this thread be re-directed to the goal of establishing once and for all what the proper spelling of the merging of sequel and expansion should be along with how it should be pronounced.
I think this game amplifies the limits of this game engine for Sins 1. Even that engine is only 6 years old (release feb 2008 + 2 years dev time) and is holding up pretty well.
Hopefully Sins 2 will have a new engine, maybe the one they used to make the cut scenes.
Its not like we are console users who are stuck with the same hardware year after year.
I think "expanquel" (pronounced Ex-SPANK-kwell) would be appropriate.
Who said anything about fair? I am waiting until the full release. I'm just being honest about what players asked for, but throwing my two cents about things. I think final release will be great.
sequel /ˈsikwəl/
expansion /ɪkˈspænʃ(ə)n/
Sexpansion /ˈsɪkˈspænʃ(ə)n/ This new sexpansion for SOASE continues the story of Trinity with new content and gameplay; it's also so sexy it's expanding my zipper to the breaking point.
David the price for rebellion compared to the previous expansions is to cover the salaries of marketing the game to sell through steam, the creation of the trailer which can cost over $500 for the graphics teams, artists and producers.
Same goes to the staff: Engineers optimizing the egine:
Graphics teams re-doing the textures and creating new units.
Balancing and testing
Quality assurance.
etc.
You can imagine how much they have to pay out each year. So the more content they add means the more expensive the game esp with the current economic crisis its best to not over step and be too ambitious. Rebellion itself is the first phase and ambitious but expect the races to start to differ with each and every update or expansion. Graphics wise all techys here know they are a small company that has a small team for the engine-at the same time we know the multi-core engine is under developtment at a steady slow pace to avoid big spending on hiring too many engineers. Its all good for sins if there taking it slow--i know its a risky business because of competitors but its the best course of action.
The sub-factions play very differently apart from the combat abilities of their titan.
Only Vasari rebels SBs can phase jump, only Vasari loyalists can destroy planets and become nomadic, one advent faction gets culture without media centres etc. These changes are far reaching and deep. Much more so than having reskinned ships, that would have been a valid complaint.
Lore-wise the factions have only just separated and were once united so it is unreasonable to expect them to be extremely different. This game is not a sequel and yet it has more new stuff then some actual sequels. This game was never marketed as a sequel and there was never any hint on it being anything like a sequel so expecting that is stupid.
A fair answer. I thank you, good Sir!
I thought the leaked intro video did a really good job of painting a visceral picture of what the factions are all about. It really gives definition to them.
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNN!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, Sorry. Did i distract you?
No problem, glad to help.
I didnt know what the KHAAN thing was about till I googled it.Boy was I glad I did.
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