OK, the dev's said there will be a clues in Rebellion as to what is chasing the Vasari and apparently it's not Sam Neil returning in a ship that vanished into a black hole for fifty years.
They also suggested that they thought it was possible some might get it rather quickly.
To this end, I posit my guess.
I kept noticing in the varying screen shots the new Vasari ships. We know the Vasari are quite happy to have institutionalized slavery and to force it on advanced but less powerful empires.
There's one theme in all the ships I saw..."Bugs Mr. Rico...zillions of 'em!".
I suggest the Vasari "assimilated" a space-faring insect species and experimented on them to gain their weapons and travel capabilities.
Ever poke a stick into a wasp hive? I did once. There was a wee hole in the ground about three inches deep with a single yellow jacket in the bottom of it. I killed it with a stick and then discovered that it was the entrance to a hive.
Ever see the cartoons where the moving swarm comes out after the cartoon character? That's what happened. A massive "nanite" cloud of angry wasps came out and chased my brother and I to the back door of my grandmother's house. She wouldn't open it because they were bouncing off the screen like machine gun bullets. We ran to the front door on the other side of the house and when she got there, she couldn't open it either as they had followed us around.
Finally my aunt let us in and threw wet blankets over us and brushed us off with brooms. I had been stung 32 times and had wasps in my nostrils, the corner of my eyes, between all of my fingers and dozens embedded by stingers in my belt, shoes and jeans. The city sent an extermination crew out the next day and after gassing the hive dug it open. It was 4 feet deep, 15 feet wide and 32 feet long.
I believe the Vasari poked a stick into a hive and now the swarm is after them.
If I am vetted officially at some point as being correct, I prefer to be thereafter referred to by name with the honorific, "Most Mighty and Wise" prefacing it.
Thank you.
Actually, I believe the Vasari enjoyed easy victories over the humans in the beginning. After the TEC was formed, and they began grinding the industrial machine into war mode, the TEC were able to halt the Vasari advance, and even retake some of their lost worlds. The Advent entered the war in direct conflict with the TEC, the lore is pretty vague about how they came into direct conflict with the Vasari. My guess is that paranoia regarding a potential new threat didn't help, and hostilities grew from there.
Well, what I've been thinking is that this faction splitting is really a way to redraw the races when Sins 2 does come, and 'The Threat' enters as a playable race. The Vasari split means that the Loyalists probably will have left or at the first sight of the enemy get the hell out of dodge (not in Sins 2). The Vasari rebels have been working with the other races to try to come up with a defense, and they stand their ground (in Sins 2, possibly separate faction or rolled into 1 faction). The TEC loyalists are staying put (so, in Sins 2, possibly rolled into other factions since they're cooperative). The TEC Rebels, since they don't care about anybody, they either run away or do something stupid at the first sight of 'the Threat' (maybe in Sins 2 as a separate faction, or a remnant. Now, Advent could be very interesting... I've been thinking this 'corruption' could be related to 'the Threat' as well, but that doesn't have to be the case. If it was though, either the Loyalists join 'the Threat' or are easily destroyed where as the Rebels are able to resist whatever influence is cast (in Sins 2, possibly both factions, possibly rolled into other factions due to significant losses of some kind).
I do not agree with you on there being any tie to the Advent's technology. They were a people who believed in fringe science before they were outcast. That type of methodology, if done correctly can yield amazing increases in technology (though not necessarily understanding), however, their tech is psionic, so I would imagine such experiments would mean a lot of people died trying things that didn't work. As long as you can sustain the population, you'll get there. (at least, this is what the devs would have us believe. I do not know of a society that has adopted this as their main methodology.
Did you just say, "fringe science"!?
Otherwise known as unatural science.
Lol, does saying that cause you to appear?!
Well, I might not have identified what I meant exactly... obviously, the Advent aren't real, so any of their methodology is not science in any way.
****Warning: Interesting and deep conversations to follow.... Read at your own risk****
What I was getting at was that there are people with ideas that appear to follow the scientific method, they believe they are performing 'good science', but they are not.
The difference is hard to define, so I hope I can communicate this properly: 'good science' does involve running down some wacky ideas just to rule them out, 'bad science' believes in a wacky idea even when there is no convincing evidence for it. Yet, there are 'good' ideas that we don't have convincing evidence for; such as a difference in parity violation in antimatter.Antimatter is not very common in the universe. However, something like the Big bang should have made things fairly uniform (think of an explosion; it's fairly symmetric and there's even amounts of stuff everywhere). We have good evidence for the Big Bang. We have good evidence for the uniformity of the Big Bang. The trouble comes when we ask why there is more matter than antimatter.
The current theory is that antimatter somehow behaves differently than matter, somehow causing matter to win the matter/antimatter battle (if you didn't know, they cancel each other out). The believed mechanism for this is a difference in the way parity is violated (it's a whole thing to go into what the heck 'parity violation' is/means, but it's not entirely relevant to my point here).
There now is, if memory serves, some evidence for a difference between matter/antimatter parity violations, though it is not very thorough (LHC only just succeeded in producing testable amounts of anti-atoms, much less released test data). However, I would not be surprised to see this theory in text books or relied apon for other theories to the extent you would group it with the 'good science', though there is not a lot of direct evidence for it at this time. There is circumstantial evidence, sure. On the other hand, if we were to rewind quite a few years and put this idea forward, it would be classified as 'fringe science' because there would be less circumstantial evidence and no good reason to think it's anymore true than anything else. Only if we could bring with us evidence to eliminate most of the other ideas could we 'be geniuses' by presenting such an idea.
There's another direction I was going with the 'fringe science' comment as well, which is fairly straightforward: Responsibility. I think the Advent's version of science does involve experimentation, however, it is at the risk of individuals in their society. So, maybe an Advent comes up with a new implant that should amplify telekinetic powers. Instead of trying it out in a lab, she finds some young Advent willing to try it out in the hopes that they will get an advantage over other Advent. Well, guess what? It doesn't work as advertised, underpowered. Well, the scientist makes some tweaks, and after finding another young Advent, tries it out and their head explodes.... overpowered. So, progress can be made, but there's no responsibility on the part of the scientist for the consequences of their actions.
Basically, the Advent furthered science by creating a cult of state (like Hitler, Pol Pot or Kim Joung Il) asnd then furthered scientific progress by requiring citizens to voluntarily submit to human experimentation as a religious duty to the state.
If that's the case, you can see why the TEC was repelled by them and loathed them.
On the fringe science note--yeah, I love the stuff (and I never miss an episode of Fringe either). I'm proud to call myself a Fortean--in my own thinking and not as a follower of the organization.
Bad science is actually a problem right now in mainstream science with the financial incintivezation of research. It already has been found to be causing serious problems in how science is being performed. Competition for grants, funding and the like all hinges on showing fast results before anyone else can and it is a big problem that is systemized now.
There are also always the crackpot dreamers out there who mix fantasy and research together but then inbetween are the efforts of those occasional and rare individuals who have an intuitive hunch that leads them where no other has gone before. It's those people I get interested in.
Life is a balance and the first step towards perfect balance is being open minded and always agreeing with me.
While I don't 100% disagree with you, I certainly object. I do not like how much influence corporations have on what gets developed and researched... However, the influence of corporations is hardly limited to science. Also, the pioneering days of science are over; what's left now takes a lot of time and money to do, so funds have to be more concentrated, which means the corporations have more influence. Lastly, I think proper education would greatly reduce the misdirected/improper science in a few ways:
That is nothing but a fantasy, and I've told you that before. Science is a step by step progression. the person who found the last step is by no means any greater than those that made the steps before. It's like working on a puzzle. The last piece is really no more important to the completed puzzle than those before it. But for some reason, we feel that final piece is what did it, and forget about the pieces from earlier.
My addressing the research problem is something the scientific community is starting to address itself.
These are emerging issues that are repeatedly beginning to show in technology (particularly defense research), genetics and physics.
A few years ago, I briefly corresponded with James Randi--the former magician who now debunks claims of the supernatural. He was kind enough to respond to my email and he acknowledged that "dupes" exist on both sides of the fence--both amongst skeptics and believers (I am a fan of his work BTW).
When we want to believe things, we are most often not as critical as we think we are and are usually not even aware of it--in fact, we tend to oftentimes think we are completely aware which gives us the assurance, "we can't be wrong".
In our conversations, I have actually been the skeptic and you are the true believer. I mistrust scientists abilities to be completely altruistic in their efforts--and human experience makes that a good rule of thumb. Your belief allows for that but abates its application when a certain level of professional credibility is present.
The risk is greater for you to be duped by bad science presented from seemingly credible sources than me. I'm not invested in it and I can look at it more critically.
As to the "fantasy" part of invention and discovery, there are a good many such that would never have been made if not for the determined efforts and ideas of single individuals. People do make breakthroughs--no matter what refinements and definitions of them are later added by others.
I worked in steam propulsion engineering and the amount of refinement that has gone into ship propulsion as a result of experience using the technology is amazing. But the fact remains, the first steam turbine was invented by someone--the refiner's would never have come up with it on their own.
so, after the walls of text we find the only boogie-men chasing after the Vasari is us?
Remember Neo, there are no Vasari.
This is interesting and makes sense. Personally i would prefer if the Vasari Loyalists stayed as playable faction for Sins 2 - meant as the story wont be set as far in the future, when they are supposed to be gone. My motive is selfish, i just like them. like their Vorastra titan, would hate to see them removed. Actually, i could envision them to be even more mobile - like instead of planet starting the Titan from the beginning, obviously not armed... anyway your line of thinking on this matter makes sense indeed.
Then the other factions, i could see one combined faction from TL, VR and AR - they would have their own completely new and unique shipdesigns, combine techs of the original races (dual SBs, phase gates, moving SBs, unit ressurection) and have some new stuff on top of it, They would be the balanced, well-rounded race, perhaps with accent on defense predominantly. Then i would keep Tec Rebels, Advent Loyalists and as i said Vasari Loyalists - these factions to represent the "pure" 3 original races, And finally the "Threat" - it could be either fifth playable race or it could be NPC non-playable faction, having some relation to some of the alternative victory conditions - like todefeat them, hold off their attacks for some time to be victorious - IIRC in Star Trek Birth of the Federation you could beat the Borg and this was one of the victory conditions...something along these lines...
how about just keep all race add the 7th?
my point is that in itself is refinement. the first steam turbine is a continuation of the technology in windmills which have been around forever. And those are probably a continuation from sail technology. I mean, I guess the sail is a 'root' technology of sorts, but even then, it seems to me that was probably someone watching something blow in the wind and trying to recreate it, then further refinements found it to be useful for moving things. Continuous refinement.
That is an opinion based off your perspective. I consistently cast doubt on your views and give reasons why I think that is the case, I do not see as much reasoning reciprocated by you. However, I'm sure you think the same thing. Even if you did, since doubt is the hallmark of science, you could reason that I'm a 'true believer' because I doubt so many things.
As an example of our differing views, I read your links and came to the opposite conclusion. I honestly would spell out why I think that, but I just spent a lot of time doing something similar to another of your posts on another page and don't have the time.
Refinement is not invention and blurring all invention as nothing but refinement is disingenuous. Tsk tsk.
I've noted some of your opposite conclusions on occasion and I haven't ever attempted a real "debate" a I am too lazy to research a huge, long winded internet tirade but...
On several occasions I have presented things in my own words as my own view that directly reflect the views of prominent theorists and in some of these cases you have dismissed those views as blatantly incorrect due to my lack of clarity or understanding.
My personal theories don't have to and aren't intended to carry "scientific credence" but it is the case of the "beam in your brother's eye" when some of the things you "know are wrong" are actually subjects of research by "real scientists".
If you were to dismiss their theories in their presence, I bet they'd take the time to debate with you.
I respect and like your intelligence and knowledge but you are very rigid. I think you see this as proof of strength, but it is not and that is a problem with a large segemnt of today's scientific community--they have the same outlook.
As always, I am content...I live, I love, I slay.
P.S. The Vasari are running from internet memes.
Sinperium admit it! u dont know whos chasing the vasari... the only hint i am aware of so far is on the rebel titan and that might even be a glitch or it might be coincidental ... either-way i dont think u know...
You wish I didn't know...but I do. Oh yes, I do. Envy me mortal.
hahaha unbelievable! prove that you know
As I "know" I need no proof.
I agree that the Unity's mental resources and revenge drive could develop the technology they use, given the 10,000 years they've had to do it in. It's not the tech itself that caught my attention, but their overpowering desire to kill off the TEC. Even considering their exile, it seems much more reasonable to just go build a civilization somewhere else than to dedicate your entire population to annihilation those who wronged you.
My point was, something is corrupting the Unity, or else the rebels wouldn't be able to alter the unity in the way they have. It may very well be their overpowering desire for revenge that's doing it, but it just seems a little too convenient for whatever's chasing the Vasari to be unrelated.
If it can drive the entire Vasari Dark Armada insane with mortal terror, it doesn't seem like it'd be too difficult for it to influence the psychic collective of the Advent.
I personally think the advent are on bath salts...
I am just going to speculate. But knowing the clues in the first game and the last two expansions seem to show that this is something that the Vasari are afraid of. It sort of reminds of the term whenever you create a monster, the monster would want to kill its creator. Now I am just going to speculate what this "new Threat" is.
1. a race of intelligent cyborgs or AI's created by the Vasari that ended up rebelling against their masters.
2. probably a slave rebellion or revolution (probably unlikely)
3. another empire that probably sabotaged the Vasari's experiments and wanted to bring the Vasari to their knees.
I am hoping that this faction will be revealed when the time comes. Right now, there is just speculation.
If you've ever explored the Orion's Arm universe, you're probably awash with a lot of ideas that could fit within Sins as far as galactic super-dangers are concerned: (www.orionsarm.com) Space is just filled with things that could force your civilization into extinction, and asteroid and comet impacts are not some of them, being only planetary-scale disasters. When you consider how large the Vasari race probably is, and how much larger it was before they fled, whatever put them on the run must have been truly terrible. It obviously wasn't just a local event, as it spread rapidly and aggressively, and threatened their entire species. It still follows them. This puts a few different horrible things the Vasari could be running from to mind.
Here are some:
There are uncontrollable ever-expanding self-repairing nanite swarms that consume entire star systems of resources and leave that section of space an empty death trap. If the swarm develops intelligence it may move into interstellar space and become a galactic threat. They are generally created by biologicals for various benign purposes, or sometimes for warfare. On occasion they have escaped control of their creators and the result is truly terrifying. Humanity almost met its end to one of these, late in the interplanetary age, and was only saved due to the intervention of a recently-transcended archailect: (http://www.orionsarm.com/xcms.php?r=oaeg-view-article&egart_uid=4ad4d58752948)
There are things like Autowars, which are used often in warfare: (http://www.orionsarm.com/xcms.php?r=oaeg-view-article&egart_uid=45eb1ea444972) Automated self-replicating super-intelligent warship factories that endlessly pump out highly-advanced warships into massive armadas designed to destroy whatever their creators designed them to. In some cases the autowar fleets have gone rogue, and like the runaway nanite swarms have managed to wreck extensive havoc before being subdued. A few times in galactic history they managed to destroy their creators: (http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4b6d2e7446c5a)
The Dawn Hunters are an example of a supposed legendary autowar fleet that destroyed its creator civilization millions of years ago and still exists as a blight upon the galaxy, suspected of having wiped out numerous intelligent civilizations over the past several million years. According to the theory they are still lurking in the galaxy, somewhere near Terragen space: (http://www.orionsarm.com/xcms.php?r=oaeg-view-article&egart_uid=480135af5ac81)
The Hedrile: (http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/48013e3b67f3e) A strange alien artifact that is billions of years old, supposedly contains a wormhole that leads to another universe, and has led to the disappearance of several transcendent AIs that attempted to plumb its depths. Built by an ancient civilization which no longer exists, either because they went through it and could not come back, or because whatever they connected it to came through and destroyed them.
The Omicron Hygeras Object: (http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4a59d19f81fed) A 262 kilometer long object that appears to be of extragalactic origin, and is approximately 400 million years old. Emits heavy radiation, and is surrounded by powerful magnetic and gravitational fields. It orbits a star that once was home to an interstellar race that subsequently vanished upon the object's arrival. It has defied all attempts at either being explored, occupied, or demolished, and has resulted in the deaths of thousands of would-be explorers, archaeologists, and even some transcendent AIs.
The Iahi Daon Empire: (http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/48fa48fb5a4ae) Ancient extinct civilization of which numerous dead ark ships have been discovered floating in interstellar space. Similar to the Vasari in that they hastily fled their homeworld and most occupied systems 7,233,000 years ago, fleeing something unknown. Unlike the Vasari the Iahi Daon did not escape their menace, and died out without being able to restore their empire.
There are a lot more possibilities I could list, all of them tantalizing and fittable within the Sins cosmology, since we know almost nothing about what the Threat could be. I hope it is something fantastic, but it will probable be something pretty mundane, like a nanite swarm.
I'll leave you with this, a picture of the Orion's Arm galaxy and the location of its various high-energy civilizations: (http://www.orionsarm.com/xcms.php?r=oaeg-view-article&egart_uid=48028a7f74e6d) Notice that the right half of the galaxy has almost no detectable energy emissions. Why is that section of the galaxy seemingly devoid of technologically advanced life while the rest of the galaxy is not? When I am playing Sins, I often imagine that the Vasari must hail from that part of the galaxy, and whatever is chasing them has consumed everything there. Some terrifying thing must have caused the right half of the Milky Way in the Orion's Arm universe to die millions of years ago. I wonder if it is the same thing that is chasing the Vasari? Did the Vasari build something like the Hedrile, and a cosmic terror came through? Did a weapon of utterly MASS destruction like the Omicron Hygeras Artifact arrive from another galaxy? Did the Vasari meet an impossibly powerful ancient menace left over from a previous civilization, like the Dawn Hunters? Did the Vasari create an autowar fleet they lost control of, or a was there a nanodisaster they never subdued?
It's fun speculating.
So.... you're ideas are: AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, or nobody knows?
I disagree. As an example, at a place I once worked at, there had been excel sheets that tracked various statistics for work and the intranet could pull up info on various orders. I took the excel sheets and connected them to the intranet pages. Then I optimized and cut out the stuff not needed. In the end, it was a completely new way of tracking orders. Anyone who looked at the 3 different things would think they were completely separate. I invented it, but I took from what others had done and merely tweaked it again and again. It was great, I was/am proud of it, and I can't completely convey the capabilities that it had in such a small space.
I suppose it's an opinion, but I don't elevate my accomplishment and minimize those that came before me. Sure, it took me a lot of work to get to the final version, but I'm sure whoever came up with the other works did the same thing. Also, from another perspective, you can't say that I invented the final version without going through all the various refinements until I got to the final version. So, even the invention process itself is a series of refinements, though 1 person/group happens to be the same through those refinements.
Now, I suppose I should have let this all drop, but I admit to being stubborn when it comes to making a point.
Kind of like when you tell someone they are using an idea incorrectly and they debate the meaning of a word with you? That kind of rigid?
ok to prove my point here its up to u guys if u agree:
Poll:
a ) is axxo right?
b ) is axxo Really right?
c ) All the above.
p.s. there is no "D"
any concerns regarding axxo's "rightness" please email support@stardock.com
key:
ALL THE ABOVE
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