So after a few days of playing I'll agree the beta is pretty stable with some nice extras we weren't expecting. Good job Stardock. However, there are two things that technically function but don't agree with how they were implemented, the subfactions and titans. Here are my arguments why and what I think should be done about it.
1. The subfactions really don't play that differently from each other. Sure, they have a couple of nice goodies, and perhaps an extra way to win each (Early Novalith bombardment, super rapid colonization after allying with neutral factions), but they could have more. However, the bigger issue is I don't think there play styles are going to be all that different, especially in the all important early game. This may have made more sense when you choose your faction after the game start, but under the current system it just feels generic. My biggest gripe is that you need at least 3 labs before you can get any faction specific tech (minus the almost identical corvettes). I think each faction should get a few bonuses either at the start of the game or within the two labs in each tree players usually build right away.
Now these bonuses could take a few different forms. My personal favorite would be to have a few small bonus that are active at the start without any research, but these things could also be done as very early research to keep things consent. Another option would be to have each subfaction have slightly different versions of units that are superior to their default counterparts. Some ideas I think would make nice early (unless otherwise noted) bonuses include.
Loyalists
Rebels
2. The titans are unbalanced. Now everyone has their own idea of how they want titans to be, but as it is now they pretty much make fleets irrelevant, and the game often becomes a contest of who can get the highest level titan. Players are also coming up with ever more strategies to exploit this situation (hit and run raids with titans, which can quickly do serious damage but can move fast enough and take enough hits to retreat with minimum damage to be healed with repair bays and a Dunov). Its one thing to have a very powerful game ending unit, its another to have a very powerful game ending unit that can be deployed fairly early and can only be killed with another, higher level game ending unit.
The first thing I would try is to make titans more specialized. I really like the ability to put your upgrade points into starbase like stat boosting upgrades. However, the titans get enough stats on level up to make them very powerful even if you choose just to max out your abilities. I would suggest removing (for the most part) the health/shield/damage etc. stat upgrades from level ups, and instead give them all entirely to upgrades. Thus you can get a titan that's as strong as it is now, but you won't be able to spend very many points getting the high level abilities, and if you want the super powerful abilities your titan as a ship will be much weaker. Thus, players will need to think even more carefully about what kind of titan they want, and should over all make them easier to deal with (though another solution will probably be needed).
Summary: I think the factions could be more diverse, especially early game, and gave some concrete constructive ideas of how to make this better. I also think Titans should be specialized as either very powerful fleet destroying warships or high level ability casters (I.e. as super capitalship), but not both. Both changes are fairly easy to implement and would give the game more depth and ultimately more fun.
I mentioned C&C Generals: Zero Hour in regards to how I thought the factions should be in this thread, based on my limited knowledge of Rebellion since I am not in the beta, and I like your ideas, GoaFan77.
This.
Especially the ability to construct Siege Frigates right of the bat would be, imho, overpowered on small maps, where you spawn very close to your opponent.
Most of your other ideas are great, gonna give you +1 for them.
"Tactical slot upgrade price and build time reduction Have trade ports be affected by the tier 1 tech "similar type" module cost reductionTech for lower fleet upkeep"
"Tactical slot upgrade price and build time reduction
Have trade ports be affected by the tier 1 tech "similar type" module cost reductionTech for lower fleet upkeep"
Especially those are awesome, I would love to see them in the game!
Yeah its too bad they aren't going the route of leaving the original factions with the new subfactions, but its there choice. I'm just trying to come up with ideas to make the system they have more interesting.
TEC already have an almost unbeatable edge in this scenario thanks to the Sova's embargo, so I don't think most people will be playing games like that anyways. Mecha-Lenin there thinks thats almost useless since siege frigates are almost never built in competitive play. But its not a huge deal, maybe free research for other factions would be more practable.
There is room to krosovs over in the tree so they only need 1 lab.
I haven't dived into the beta very much lately ( In the process of moving ), and this is mostly based on my style of play, but shouldn't Titans be seen as a force multiplier rather than the force itself? The way I employed most capital ships in the old Sins was based on this, and it worked rather well. Much like the modern day tank, it would be extremely foolish to assault with tanks alone, they would be obliterated, but when supported by aircraft, light vehicles and infantry, it suddenly becomes an unstoppable advance. I suppose a better way to put it is when your various build of attack fleet meets the various defenses/defender fleet or equal strength, the presence of your Titan would swing the battle your way. It should not be able to win alone, a well rounded fleet should eat them for breakfast, but when supported by frigate screens, repair vessels, long-range support, fighter craft, etc, it would become much much harder to bring down. So in essence it could:
Be a buff unit. -> Hands out either faction specific/purchased/starting buffs to anyone it is grouped in a fleet with. Things like huge targeting buffs, and/or fields large amounts of faction specific repair buffs for a nice passive repair in battle, or over-projecting shields for tougher shields on the ships.
Be a tank. -> Soaks up tremendous amounts of damage with plenty of armor plating, at the cost of some weapon ports being covered in more armor plates
Be a sniper. -> A one shot - one kill weapon with a very long reload time ( with a minimum range to counter ). Think the MAC Guns from Halo.
Be a carrier. -> A titan would not only be able to field a ridiculously huge fleet of strike craft and bombers, but manufacture them ( with no penalty for being in combat), or perhaps be provided with a very large amount of extremely high quality (more damage, health, evasive ) strike craft/bombers.
Be a transport. -> A fast, lightly armed and armored for maximum room, it can arrive in system and drop off a set amount of pre-built and stowed ships for a surprise raid. Being a transport would also say buff the trade income for a friendly system it is sitting in or something to that nature
I'm sure with those suggestions my idea comes across clearly.
Something else ( I have also posted in the Corvettes post ), I think any element of "Stealth" is non-existent in Sins. A "submarine" class, for lack of a better term could perhaps be filled by these corvette class. Small, agile, sneaky, you could have them sit in an enemy well and gather intel, perhaps even upgrade their intel gathering ability, such as if you are on the home planet you can see what they are currently researching. Perhaps conduct covert operations such as factor sabotage, or bringing the trade center offline for a short while, even leeching trade income. If the circumstances were correct, I.E culture ( not sure if culture still matters ), they could use propaganda to incite uprisings, causing planetary damage before the main fleet even arrives. Granted to do most of these things you would have to give them stealth, so counter stealth with a scout ship, or even if they move to close or while they are in FTL flight. I think Rebels could steal profits and incite rebellions where a Loyalist operation would be more professional in nature, taking a ship factory offline for a short amount of time, or slowing research.
I see a ton of potential for various factions, but alas, my battery is about to die on this poor thing, if more ideas are desired, I would be happy to share.
I don't really mind Titans being a "force", the normal capitalships are already great force multipliers (for the most part), so that role was already covered in Sins. The biggest problem with it is that whoever gets the highest level titan first is usually the victor because nothing can stand against them. My suggestion was just an idea to tone them down a bit by making sure they can't have both godly stats and abilities, you have to pick one. Your idea seems to go farther than that, but I think the individual titans will tend to focus on those different areas you mention while still staying big and powerful. We'll just have to see what the other factions bring to the table.
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