Well, i just tested, 15 min after the start, i have my titan
this is way too fast as the titans are virtually invulnerable to whatever other players can have at the begining. The only defence is a turret spam, and turrets don't move ^^
Also, i figured the only way to kill a titan would be a massive heavy cruiser spam (as flak dies to titans very fast, the fighters take the bombers out easy)
i might be wrong but after testing it in mp, loyalist titan just dosen't want to die.
Also, the loyalist nova is ... too easy to spam, its a mp killer, with 2 nova (roughly 20k credit worth - or 15k with the cost decrease tech)
there is no real counter to it since it kills the enemy economy even if they sb'd every planet they have (witch is way more expensive then making novas)
I want a disable super weapon option! Or at the very least, put a weapon failure algorythm they're experimental anyway, make em blow up for weapon malfunction once in a while ^^
A fully upgraded Starbase is on par or better than the current Titans. I wouldn't expect an unsupported Titan in an enemy gravity well to take down a fully upgraded Starbase.
Further, Titans weren't designed to be anti-starbase. The two released titans are designed to support fleets either through Tanking abilities with the Ankylon or through Damage output like the Ragnarov.
Further, starbases already have decent counters. A pack of Ogrovs with the Ankylon would have raped that starbase.
Which begs the question - Why is the Ankylon's damage output so high if it's supposed to be defensive fleet support?They're being used as lone battering rams because they can both tank everything and cut through them, Ragnarov may kill them a bit faster, but it drops like a brick without a support fleet to keep it alive.
i havent use the Ragnarov much but it can kill a fully upgrade sb just using snipe lol
I have two things to add to the discussion: First off I haven't seen the titans as that OP. A level one or two Ankylon Titan jumped into my gravity well and my level 4 Marza gave as well as he got and the titan was the one that retreated. Then he jumped back in but I had maxed out hangers and my bombers raped him and he ran again. I never had a titan during this time. So I have yet to see this OP claim. However, assuming that it is OP, perhaps instead of having to research all four levels before building, perhaps you could build one after one level but it would have a quarter of the health, shields, and damage output? Something where you can still field it early but requires more research to truly become a huge threat. Just a thought
u dont have to have all four to build it u need all four to finish build it can be started after the first one and the foundry needs lvl one to build as well forgot to say that for another post lol
I currently feel like the rest of the races need to come out first before the Titans are even considered being Nerfed.
Right now its awesome to get the Titans out and see them and practice and play and strategize and everything, its great for testing which is what is needed. They need to be cheap and come out early for testing purposes, but eventually they should be more mid game. Let me emphasize, not late game, but mid game. They are a bit cheap and easy to build, I feel like starbases are harder and way more expensive for what they do, especially to level up. And when your choice is a giant moving starbase that can defend and attack multiple gravity wells, or a stationary one that can only protect one, then the choice is obvious.
I feel that a whole new Tech tree for Titans would be nice and keep the need for nerfing to a minimum. Just like the starbases for defence, have a Titan tree ultimately. (After substantial Titan testing is complete) Have the Titans accessible at tech 5, and maybe a bit more expensive. Also I would say increase the time to build a titan substantially and decrease the HP of the Titan shipyard so it is more vulnerable when attacked and needs defended. But have techs that can increase HP of shipyard and decrease build time available so those who want to put the resources into it to build it faster can. Then do like the starbases and have the "equipment" of the titan upgraded and retrofitted for a cost.
This would keep Titans mid game, and not make them that rare and worth having but would make "Super Titans" similar to the ultra high level ones harder to acquire and more late game. Basically making them easier to combat throughout the game but they'd still be awesome.
Something like the tech tree I am proposing would give plenty to research through both beginning and end tech levels and give us a nice new tech tree. God I love tech trees.
But that's just my two cents.
Guys you have all missed something when discussing Titans.
You should understand that the tec loyalists and rebels are not suppose to counter each other therefore the loyalist titan rains supreme. The race that wants to annihilate the Tec empire is the Advent and im pretty sure they'll just 1: disable its abilities, 2: disable it movements, 3: increase its weapon cool down- 4: Assimilate the tec titans support ships and pound it to pieces.
Everything is speculative right now but i suspect things are going south for the tec this time round hence there defensive titan and being able to build multiple star-bases in a gravity well.
It's a good question. Nothing mobile even comes close to starting as high DPS wise as a Titan currently. Even starbases are built with TWO weapons disabled (i.e. 1/3 of it's raw power only). It takes an investment to get a Starbase upgraded and when you lose it you lose that investment. On the other hand a Titan is rebuilt with full experience previously gained.
Ragnarov rapes frigate fleets period.
On the last part it depends on the Titan level. 2 titan levels for the Ragnarov give more Hull than 1 Kols gets from leveling up 9 times each (2 Kols 7 times each for the Ankylons). Couple with the Armor, Passive Durability upgrades it gets to be pretty tough to take out something that has un-capped abilities.
Ultimate ability available at level 1 . Maybe make not so strong until overcharge is available.
Then you haven't played a good player I guess.
Again, not a good player. Level 1 or 2 titan with no strikecraft support isn't really a good example. Bad play is still bad play with or without a Titan.
I suspect with the current build people will adapt to building primarily Bomber spam fleets trying to kite the Titan possibly mixed with their own Titan. There is little to no reason to use frigates against a titan as all you'll do is feed it experience. Even if you do manage to kill the Titan it will currently re-build with previous levels gained.
If you do scout someone spending resources on frigates a early Titan later backed by capital ships and some support cruisers gets really really hard to beat.
I'm not sure this is what the game designers wanted in terms of epic space battles.
I'm ok with this too.
I don't mind that we as fans are throwing out ideas on how to rebalance them. Ultimately though it will be up to the developers to decide what kind of game and balance they want and when/if they make any changes.
I mostly agree with all of you.
But one thing strikes me. The titans builds way too fast. Should take at least twice the amount of time to build.
The TEC Loyalists have two major advantages with Novalith Cannons:
1. They can build them at tier six. This means that a TEC Loyalist will get their super weapon very quickly.
2. No prerequisite research is required. The TEC from Trinity and the TEC Rebels have to fully research all missile techs in order to get the Novalith Cannon. Since the Loyalists do not have to research anything (much like the Vasari), they can use the resources that were not spent in missile tech but in building their Novalith Cannon.
I would suggest having to research Cyclotaaruite Payloads twice (a tier six missile tec) in order to research the tier six Novalith Cannon, or something else that will carry out the same effect.
So yes, I agree that the Novalith Cannon is too easy to get, in my opinion at least. Please Bear in mind that I have yet to play multiplier though, so I do not know what other human players will do.
The thing is, the ankylon allows the TEC loyalists to go on the offensive because it has such amazing staying power and can keep the pressure high on an enemy HW with little to no support. This forces the enemy to go defensive which is what I thought the rebels were good at doing. I would say that tactically, the rebels titan is an amazing beast once it is levelled up and surpasses the ankylon in usefulness ONLY in the endgame as it is able to pop starbases and other titans relatively quickly. That being said, the rebels have a very glaring defensive weakness, and I foresee the loyalists being the favored TEC race because they can put up earlier, stronger pressure on an enemy HW and level their titan the entire time, while the rebels, having less staying power in a grav well, need to engage enemy fleets. The thing is smart players won't face a TEC titans fleet to XP starve it. I totally think the TEC rebels should get the XP bonus upgrade that the loyalists have, since the ankylon can be on the front lines all the time.
Also, I agree that titans come into the game too early for the time being. That being said, this can easily be changed and honestly for purposes of the beta I would hope they are easy to acquire because it would give them more play time to test potential issues. I would rather see titans at tech level 6-8, with more research that also takes longer to complete.
As it currently stands, there is no weak point to an empire while they are teching titans, and if you aren't teching a titan yoruself you may as well rip up your I win card. There never should be a required strategy that all players need to adhere to for victory(I build titan to win). Personally, I would like to see corvettes pack a little bit more of a punch, but perhaps the TEC aren't very corvette centered ( I could see the advent being more so).
I would say general titan improvements would be to have them start out a little weaker and have larger gains of everything as they level. Xp starvation will now be a primary imperative for every player, and so every level you gain should count a LOT.
there is no point in push the titan back in the tech tree other than to make it useless and no matter were it is at ppl will still have then within 30 mins period and as it stands now we need to wait for the advent and vasari to get in before we start to call them op
It's not supposed to be rock-paper-scissors. Every faction is supposed to be balanced with the other factions.
I think more time wouldn't be a bad thing. There might be counters we just haven't discovered yet. There must be other ways to pressure someone who is going straight for a titan. I think the key here is making them a bit more risky for the player who builds one if they race to it. If you weaken them too much, their role changes. It truly is as ZombieRus5 stated what the developers want the titan class ship role to be, and just maybe it is different per faction.
It's good idea to use titan's passive ablility to unlock it's weapon banks, a defensive/offensive titan should start off with only 1 or 2 of it's weapon choices only, and with each passive ability to unlock weapon banks and increase it's fire power, the titan will slowly grow into a monster what we see right now. This should make a lv1 titan less scarier and lvl much slower. in order to make it effecient at low levels u have to back it up with a fleet to grab exp fast enough, while in mid-late game your titan could still stay their role beening a tide shifter of battles.
add on to my previous post...
this way the lv1 titan should start with somewhat doulbe hp/shield of a cap ship. similar or slightly higher dps comparing to a un-upgraded star base. considering it's cost this should be more balanced.
I love how amazing the loyalist titan is. I do agree that it's too easy to get however.
It does a lot of autocannon damage. . . maybe it should be further down the autocannon tech tree. . . or maybe require advancements across multiple weapon tech trees if possible.
The multiple techs to build the factory is a little awkward. Should just be 1 tech box. Or there should be techs to unlock different abilities of the titan, just like there are for starbases.
But I wouldn't nerf it too much. Especially not the snipe ability. Its just cool to have something in the game that will do that.
There is a huge difference between a 15 minute Titan and a 30 minute one.
personally i like the idea that if your titan dies it keeps the experience cause if your enemy has a high level titan you will never be able to get your titan back up to the level you had it (or it would be EXTREMLY hard to do)
No they really is not. I have played several games now doing what you all are claiming is so out of balance and calling the Titans OP. BS, I lost my Rebel Titan trying to take out an enemy planet. it got wasted at level 3. So please do not try and pass off that the titans are OP or built way to soon. Because they are not.
Again, I will say this again as some others have, STOP TRYING TO NERF THE TITAN before we have seen the other Races Titans. Get off your high horses and just play the game as it is now and stop whining.
I can comment on this because I lost mine, just because you get all of your points back does not make this a bug or out of balance. if your titan dies at Lv 3 and you rebuild it, yes you get your points, but! Your XP is Zero, you have to gain all of it back up to the point where it was lost. this can take a long time to get that XP Back. I know It took me over 2 hours of fighting just to get all of the XP back. So I was lv 3 for a long time trying to get lvl 4.
ok heres an idea why not just make the research more expensive and make it so you have to own say 3 or 4 planets before building a titan. just my two cents
Here's an idea.
What about a time limit before we're allowed to build titans? Like an option in the pregame set up conditions.
Eg. 30 mins of game time must pass, before titans can be built sorta thing.
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