Well, I've played the FE beta long enough to believe that I have some decent feedback to give. Almost everything that I'm going to say already has a thread (sometimes three), but I'm hoping I can bring a little bit of my own touch to the discussion. There are some things I want to touch on only briefly, either because they've been talked about so much already or because the devs have indicated that they're in the works:
More important, in my mind, are the basic rules of the game, the foundational elements that make the game Fallen Enchantress rather than, say, GalCiv. The basic rules can be split into two categories: strategic and tactical. Of these two categories, the tactical has the greater number of errors and overlooked details, most of which have been addressed in other threads, while the strategic has the larger individual flaws. I'm going to hit some of the major gameplay issues and propose solutions for each one. Hopefully I'll say something worth hearing. Strategic level:There are several elements of the strategic gameplay that are schizophrenically dualistic, among them
These elements tend to tie into one another, but for the purposes of analytical clarity, I'll do my best to separate them out. TL;DR: by trying to treat the RPG mechanics on a high-gildar scale and the civilization mechanics on a low-gildar scale, we end up with an unpalatable result.
Gildar: The key problem here is the vast disparity between taxation and item sales. A single lucky goodie hut can provide the income for hundreds of game turns, especially early in the game. Compare taxation income at, say, turn 25 against the 700 gildar sale of a very expensive, as-yet-unusable weapon. There is no incentive to raise taxes when we stand to gain such incredible wealth as a matter of course just from wandering around the map. If we do not have to manage our gildar, then why have it at all? Alternatively, if we don't abuse item sales, every single gildar is precious; +1 maintenance per turn on a building is an enormous penalty.
Proposal: Merged with the proposal for "Item purchases and sales", below.
Item purchases and sales: In addition to the problems I've listed above, there are issues of verisimilitude and consistency with the item shops. In a post-apocalyptic world where humanity's an endangered species and I can't scrape together 4 gildar per turn in taxation without inducing 16% of my population to quit their jobs in protest (despite the dangers of inaction), I somehow have access to a merchant with a bottomless purse, a venture capitalist with a vault so vast that he's willing to fund the experiment that is my entire kingdom for decades on the basis of a sale of a single poison-dripping dagger. Moreover, while my people may have just spent a decade researching the secrets of blacksmithing/horsemanship, he's already got a limitless supply of metal/horses to provide to my champions. It doesn't matter that I haven't managed to build a mine or a pasture yet; it doesn't matter that I can't outfit my rank and file; the merchant will meet the needs of my champions no matter what materials would go into this effort, and best of all, he does it in zero time, with zero production loss. To all of this, I say: who is this handsome stranger who is richer than all of the nations of the world combined, and why can't I just seize his limitless purse, his magical mine/pasture/crystal cavern, and his blessed forge where I may smith what I want, when I want, as fast as I want, at no cost? Proposal: Kill the merchant. Entirely. Eliminate it from the game with the most extreme of prejudices. Gildar is gathered painstakingly from your cities or your mines and is used to pay your soldiers' wages and upkeep, not to buy limitless magic items as if this were a post-scarcity universe. There are no more endless pockets of wealth just out of your sovereign's reach. You outfit your champions the same way you outfit your rank and file: with production from the cities, costing materials and time but no gold. Monster drops are folded into production: a wolf pelt allows you, say, 20 production worth of leather in zero time, for a champion or for a unit. Demon horns might produce magic staves or some such. This way, we really get that post-cataclysmic sense, we actually have to raise taxes above "none", and we get rid of the equipment dissonance between units and champions. If I have the crystal, I can make the magic sword for my hero; I don't have to dump 250 years' worth of taxation into some merchant's hand while I'm simultaneously outfitting an entire division of rank-and-file soldiers with the same mass-produced magic sword at no cost beyond a division's worth of crystal. City growth: The game doesn't seem to know whether it wants few cities or many cities. There's a prestige mechanic that increases growth across your entire civilization, but there's also an easy-to-research Inn that allows you to quickly derive a much greater benefit from multiple cities. Add in extremely cheap settlers, subtract any penalties for city founding, and we get the impression that sprawl is the way the game is supposed to be played. The eight-tile hard founding limit and the six-tile soft expansion limit are the only restraining factors. Proposal: Incentivize whichever one is desired, and penalize the others. Having my prestige growth of 1 spread across two cities is not much of a penalty if by having two Inns I can get double the growth. Cities should be harder to found; it should require an influx of gildar and a chunk of time, and/or low population should hemorrhage gildar. Perhaps Normal-level city taxation should only break even upon reaching city level 2. Naturally, this would require bumping up starting gildar; either that, or eliminate the penalty for the capital only. This would also force us to manage taxation while providing an incentive to expand only when our economies can support doing so. You should potentially consider increasing growth slightly, perhaps in a way related to "Food", below. Food: Cities have two immutable stats upon founding, Grain and Production. Grain, however, feels like a throwaway stat. In the real world, food is the main practical driver and limiter of population growth. Where food is abundant, populations expand; where it is scarce, they contract. In FE, for any given city, food acts as a binary check: do I have sufficient food to support the next population point? If so, grow; if not, don't. In the current city-sprawl, low-pop-growth-in-dozens-of-cities based system, food is almost entirely irrelevant for hundreds of seasons. And especially in the late game, where techs provide big food bonuses per grain and I'm only going to be growing a city by .5 to 1 population a turn (due to the number of cities I have), why should I consider the food level of a city location if it's not going to affect my city for another 300 seasons? Food needs to provide immediate feedback; otherwise, it feels like a static and mostly-irrelevant consideration.
Proposal: There are a lot of potential ways to go here.
Strategy wrap-up: Cities or scenery?:
Tactical level:The problems I'm going to talk about on the tactical level are
Initiative: The initiative system, depending so heavily as it does on your units' weapons, results in bizarre and undesirable loadouts, such as sending a spellcasting champion into battle with a dagger. This might work if you're into virgin sacrifice, but what if you just want to carry the traditional staff? In that case, you'll probably end up punished by going from +6 to -6 initiative. Furthermore, there's already an encumbrance system in the game, yet some armor types provide additional penalties to initiative beyond whatever encumbrance applies. A dagger should be able to swing quickly, but it doesn't make me move faster. (I'm pretty sure my parents taught me not to run with knives, actually.) In the real world, there's no difference between wearing fifty pounds of plate and fifty pounds of maille, and neither of them will affect the speed at which I chant a mystical sutra.
Proposal: Start thinking about initiative in a holistic way.
Lethality: The devs are working on equalizing weapons and armor, but there's one matter I haven't seen addressed yet, which is ping damage. To my understanding-- and correct me if I'm wrong-- it doesn't matter how well I've kitted out my squad of 3 heavy knights; they're still green troops, which means that they have 6 hit points between them, for a total of 18, and a unit of 9 clubmen will ping them for 9 damage per action. Two such units-- eighteen hunchbacked, grunting, proto-sapient cavemen-- will club my 3 technologically advanced Glorious Get of the Celestial Axe to death in one turn. Am I understanding this mechanic correctly? If so... Proposal: Apply ping at the end of a unit's attack, not once per member of the unit. In other words, if the entire unit would have its attack reduced to 0 because every member's blow glanced off the opposition's armor, then raise the total damage to 1. Don't raise each single member's minimum damage to 1. Other matters:There are other details that need work: access to the Hiergamenon, tooltips that are useful (I need to be able to see what tactical spell effects on my units mean!), explanation of the Wildlands (I found the Imperium, I believe it's called; I thought I was supposed to be able to claim it, but if so, I'm not seeing a way to do it), but most important to me are the systems that make up the core of the game. Everything else can be tweaked, but you can't change the foundation once it's set. Houses built on sand, and all that. I hope my feedback has been helpful.
I agree with this sentiment as well.
Better units may get better wages, but not 3-4 times the "daily wage" of the entry level soldiers. Part of their pay is the better gear and better training you gave them. We have already spent finite resources, and extra time creating the troops. Having wages tied directly to production in a fixed proportion further disincentivizes the building of higher end troops. Perhaps a fixed rate per body with a tiny "equipment maintenance cost" added atop that (0.2 gold per body + ~.05% production cost, to offer some numbers) would more adequately represent the costs of constructing and maintaining an army.
Agree
Really odd that we have a monk robe that's easily available when the apprentice robe is rarer than lv 9 loot. Plz just let us buy apprentice robes early game for our aspiring wizards. People always complain that we need to penalize armor so that magi don't wear it, but what robes are they supposed to wear? Even mage champions you recruit generally start with leather or chainmail.
Agree, I think those techs he added make more sense as quest rewards than random techs. I feel that quests currently are underdeveloped and rare (even before .86). They especially seem badly paced, coming in short lived waves after you unlock each tech.
More early game building options are definitely needed and the immediate mining and crystals that improve from tech seem like a huge improvement, however like several other people I don't think a tiny crystal cost makes the building unique. As soon as you get a crystal mine your basically building a cleric a turn in every city, what else are you going to spend crystal on early game? Making a cleric a 10-20% decrease in unrest and have a maintenance of 1 crystal would make for a more interesting early game. You would need some other buildings to balance it though, like a building that requires metal and a building that requires mana (spell garden/magic library). Buildings like sages and clerics will just end up being built in every starting city.
agreed. If concription and Weak were re-boosted (placed back as they were, maybe even a little better) yet had HARDLY ANY impact on unit maintenance ... it would be golden.
-> Therefore, if you are in trouble you can quickly conscript some troops, but you still have to PAY for them, so you would quickly disband them (return them to the city) when they are not needed. (perhaps the turn after the next 'good unit' is built)
I like this option, as it adds extra flavor to defensive strategies (and early questing), yet doesn't make it some nightmare to defend against.
(That being said ... someone high up in either the Civ or Warfare tech SHOULD be able to field massive offensive armies of weak mooks if they want to, at a much cheaper ratio than someone earlier on in those tech trees, imho)
--> So you could still go either Elite or Mook-spam in the late game .... you just can't do it initially.
To clarify, Cleric is 1 Crystal per turn. People need to catch on to this. You need at least one mine to get the research bonus. I would up the bonus to +2 Research, +10% Research. Assuming there will be Crystal weapons in the early game, the trade off needs to be better. The idea is sound though.
Not a big fan of this. It is not an easy task to find a building to demolish, and at 1 crystal per turn, when at most you a probably looking at gather 4 per turn (at the point it matters). Would make it necessary to wander through your cities with this building and demolish it later in the game. Also the AI would require some extensive programming to figure out when to utilize this building. It would be much better and -easier to implement- as a higher one time building cost.
Perhaps it could add more bonuses in the late game? Around the time where the crystal becomes more important than the research bonus?
Maybe in the form of extra 'religious' weapons and armor available for Heroes through the shop.
This + you should get techs that increase the amount of crystal you earn.
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