Having played the game for some time now, I must say that I´m very confident that FE will be all that WoM was not.
Everything seems to be going the right way. With time the bugs will be solved and the game will gain even more content but my real concern is with a two key aspect of the game: MAGIC and CHAMPIONS
Champions are far too overpowered, I can win a game on maximum difficulty without ever building a single army. The sov and the champs can do all the work alone.
On the other hand, magic, especially direct damage magic is far underpowered when compared to melee damage, except when it comes to fireballing standard troops.
In my gameplay experience I have only used magic for the occasional buff, or for strategic map effects. I have completely abandoned magic as means to deal damage or negative status. The action that would cost me cast a spell is far better used making a melee attack, not to mention that building a spellcaster champ/sov is far less cost effective than making a melee on (be assassin, defender or warrior).
So I would just level up a spell caster until I got the spell ranks I wished and let all the tactical combat be done by melee combatants.
I gave a quick scan trough the forums and my concerns seem to be shared by other people. So I decided to take the time and put my suggestions in here.
It is a relatively long post, but I guess it´s worth reading, there was a lot of consideration on how to make FE a better game and the success that both stardock and the players deserve.
*Experience should be shared between the sov, champs and troops involved in the battle.
On of the reasons I can create uber champions is because they don’t share XP. They all get the same xp, be it with one or with nine.
I usually got one doing all the work, and others remain safely behind, just enjoying the XP.
I don´t think the is need to increase the xp cap for lvl up, but instead think on a better way to distribute it.
* Rebalance combat. One hit one kill. The flanked condition. The overpower trait. The rock paper scissor approach.
Based on the suggestions and feedback on the topic, I´m editing the original post to reflect the more polished idea that everybody contributed for.
I´ve suggest somewhere else already a one hit one kill rule. Many seens to have liked the idea, while others worried that it would change too much of how combat works or nerf too much the champs. I´ve given a little bit more of thought on the idea and considered all the comments. See what you guys think:
First and foremost: eliminate or mitigate those +1 per level bonus (could be +1 per 2, 3, 4 ou five level), that’s all balance.
Second: every attack, be it magical or physical will not be able to kill more than one figure per attacking figure in the army, unless some special trait or property says otherwise.
That would be valid for the sovereign, the champions, ordinary troops and monsters.
This would automatically nerf the melee sov/champs (specially the high crits assassins) who can no longer take down 9 figure unit in a single hit. Since the damage it deals was not diminished it will still be a powerful unit when it comes down to deal with powerful single figure units. Of course, traits could allow the champ to take down one or two extra figures…
That obviously doesn´t solve the super melee champs/sovs problem. It would only drag combats longer, instead of finishing it in 9 turns, it would take 81 turns to finish, but the invulnerable champions problem persists. If no unit can hit it or pierce it´s defenses, them he is invincible, just taking it´s time to finish of the poor troopers.
So the solution is adding a new trait. This trait could be called “flanking” for melee troops and “arrow swarm” for the archers. Essentially, multi figure units would reduce the dodge/defense of single figure units that suffers their attack. If every multi figure unit would have it, or it would have to be bought, or how much the reduction would be is a balance question. I personally think it should be a nice % reduction, so the benefits would scale. Better yet, having 2 or more units with flanking adjacent, would further reduce the def/doge. Even a lvl 30 verga would think twice before going in the middle of 3 city militia.
That logic would be valid for troops vs powerful monsters too. So you could send an entire army to deal with a dragon, if a powerful hero is unavailable.
That pretty much nerf the champions, without truly nerfing them. That’s the beauty. They remain almost as powerful as they are today, buy they will no longer single handily win games, take towns, etc..
Troops are suddenly important again, they can deal with champs and powerful monsters. But there still the matter of how they fare against magic.
As I have proposed, the one hit one kill would be valid for spells too, unless they have the overpower trait. The difference of the current overpower is that it would not cause damage multiplication, but instead allows damage to carry on to as many figures in the unit as it can. Needless to say, most attack spells would have this trait, including the fireball and similar. Without the damage multiplier, mages are dangerous to “hordes” of enemies, without turning them to dust in one turn.
But still, a very high init mage could cast two or three fireballs while the opposing army still close together. The solution is also simple: just increase the cast time. Spells so powerfull should take more time to cast, even giving opposing mages time to counter, creating cool and memorable spell duels. Other suggestion is allowing the troops to position themselves before combat begins (maybe a future trait for a general like hero), giving them the opportunity to split.
That takes us to the rock paper scissor approach that some suggested.
I must say that I really dislike it when it is inflexible (like the europa universalis games). I like more the “right tool for the job” approach of the civilization games. A spearman/pikeman is the right/best tool for fighting mounted units, but not the only one, and not a guarantee of success.
The above proposition tales us close to the civ style:
Multi figure troops (especially in numbers) are the best way to deal with single powerful non magical units.
Magical units are the best way to deal with multi figure troops.
Powerful single melee units are the best way to deal with mages.
But nothing is written in stone. Knowing that my opponent has 5 fire shards, I could equip my troops with fire protection equips and buffs. That would force the opponent to change strategies.
Knowing that the other army has a magekiller champion, my sov could cast several debuffs, summons or terrain control spells instead of trying to cast direct damage spells at him.
My almighty dragonslaying knight in shining armor, when faced with an army of peasants would remember that discretion is the better part of valor and run, maybe drawing away that army from a city or a vulnerable resource.
Of course, lots of balance needs to be done for it all to work, maybe even bringing back the dual build queue or radically reducing regular troops costs and training time, but I belive the solution for worst balance problem is there.
*New traits and rebalancing of the path of the mage tree
First, I guess that instead of increasing the spells damage, it would be nice to increase the evoker bonuses (like doubling them). On the other hand, strategic damage dealing spells should severely nerfed or eliminated.
A new set of traits dealing with summoned creatures would be nice, especially with the summoning spells I’m also suggesting. Those would be (of course opened to balancing)
Summoner I – caster summoned creatures are 25% stronger
Summoner II - caster summoned creatures are 50% stronger
Summoner III - caster summoned creatures are 100% stronger
Unshakable bounds - caster summoned creatures have double resistance (helps prevent banishing, should be rare)
*Make spell rank more important and balanced
As things are now, spell ranks add little to the game. They open up few spells, the different “schools” of magic are unbalanced and many of the coolest spells in the game are gained randomly through quests.
The suggestion here is that all spells should be accessible by unlocking spell ranks or by researching spellbooks. Some of the cooler/more powerful ones could require ranks in two or more “schools” (like sunder currently does).
The spell research that existed in WoM would be essentially replaced by choosing spell ranks when leveling up.
Every school should have combat and support spells. In fact, I would say at least one high damage one hit one kill, one mid damage single target overpower (carry on damage, not multiplier), one lower damage overpower (carry on damage, not multiplier) area damage, one very low damage strategic map damage spell and several buffs/debuffs as appropriate.
The school/shard would determine the damage type and other peculiarities to make each spell unique.
So spell research on the tech tree would be restricted to those that are too important to be restricted by school, or that does not fall well in one school (like the spells involving mobility, summonin or mind control). Also, to prevent abuses, some of those researched spells should require a minimum rank in any spell to be castable.
Here goes a few examples of the new balanced spells ranks and spellbooks:
Metamagic knowledge
In this book, chanelers learn that the ancient archmages of elemental treated magic as science, and learns to do likewise
Conterspell (rebalanced) (requires apprentice level in any school of magic): same as it is
Dispel (new) (requires disciple level in any school of magic): removes all good enchantments from the unit, unless it resists
Spell Purge (new) (requires disciple level in any school of magic): removes all bad enchantments from the unit, unless the original caster resists
Spell lock (new) (requires mage level in any school of magic) tactical (one battle only) or strategic (with maintenance): spell that must be dispelled or purge before dispel or spell purge can affect other enchantments. Its resist value is doubled. Can be cast on summoned creatures to prevent banishment
Disjunction (new) (requires mage level in any school of magic), strategic only: try to dipell on enchantment affecting a city or square. The original caster get a resist check.
Mana shield (rebalanced) (requires master level in any school of magic) tactical only: same as it is, but can only be casted on the caster
Mana blast (rebalanced) (requires archmage level in any school of magic), tactical only, does damage equal to 1/10 of the victims mana pool and costs double that amount to the caster. Affects every sovereign or imbued champion on the battlefield and takes as many turns to cast as there are targets. Can be resisted for half damage
Great unsummoning (new) (requires archmage level in any school of magic), tactical only, every summoned unit in the battlefield must resist or be banished. 3 turns to cast. Should be very mana expensive and the units should get a resist bonus.
Book of mobility
This volume deals with the secrets of space and time, allowing the caster a greater, but still limited, control of his movements and the movements of others.
Escape (tactical) (requires apprentice level in any school of magic): The caster alone can escape combat
Greater Escape (tactical) (requires disciple level in any school of magic): The caster and his army can escape combat.
Retreat (strategic) (requires disciple level in any school of magic): The caster alone retreats to the nearest friendly city.
Greater retreat (strategic) (requires mage level in any school of magic): The caster and his army retreats to the nearest friendly city.
Blink (tactical) (requires master level in any school of magic): The caster can teleport to any square in the battlefield
Teleport (strategic) (requires archmage level in any school of magic): The caster alone can teleport to any friendly square.
Book of summoning and calling
This volume enables the caster to summon creatures, for this world or elsewhere, to fight for the caster. The higher the caster lvl, the higher the lvl of the summoned creature.
Summoner´s boon (removed) – should become a path of the mage trait
Natures call (rebalanced) – (requires apprentice level in any school of magic), tactical (one battle only) or strategic (with maintenance), summon a random beast to fight for the caster
Elemental summoning (new) - (requires disciple level in any school of magic), tactical (one battle only) or strategic (with maintenance), summon a random elemental to fight for the caster
Banish (new) (requires disciple level in any school of magic), tactical only: summoned unit must resist or be banished
Demon bounding (new) - (requires mage level in any school of magic), tactical (one battle only) or strategic (with maintenance), summon a random demon to fight for the caster
Dragon command (new) - (requires master level in any school of magic), tactical (one battle only) or strategic (with maintenance), summon a random dragon to fight for the caster
Steal bond (new) - (requires master level in any school of magic), tactical only, takes control of enemy summoned unit if it fails to resist.
Call Titan (rebalanced/new) - (requires archmage level in any school of magic), strategic only, summon a titan to serve the caster. Consumes a life or a death shard. Only one titan per faction. If titan is killed, casting this spell again brings back the same titan (with levels eventually gained)
Dragon mount (new) - (requires archmage level in any school of magic), strategic only, summon a dragon to serve as mount to the caster.
Book of the mind
This old tome goes deep into the secrets of the mind, both good ou for evil. Spells of this book doesn´t work on elementals or constructs.
Touch of darkness (rebalanced) – (requires apprentice level in any school of magic), strategic only, same effect
Confusion (rebalanced) -(requires disciple level in any school of magic), tactical only, same effect
Mind blast (new) - (requires mage level in any school of magic), tactical only, untyped mid damage, single target, unlimited range
Cloak of fear(rebalanced) -(requires master level in any school of magic) tactical (one battle only) or strategic (with maintenance), same effect, but the caster can only cast on himself
Domination (rebalanced) - (requires archmage level in any school of magic), tactical only, takes control of unit that fails to resist. At the end of every one of its turns, the unit is allowed a new resist check to break free.
Air school
Shocking touch (new) – apprentice, tactical, high lightning damage, one hit one kill, single target, range one
Summon air shrill (new) – apprentice, tactical (one battle only) or strategic (with maintenance), summon an air shrill.
Storm (rebalance) – disciple, tactical, mid lightning damage, overpower, single target, unlimited range
Lightning weapon (new) – disciple, tactical (one battle only) or strategic (with maintenance), add low Lightning damage to unit´s attack.
Summon air elemental (new) – mage, tactical (one battle only) or strategic (with maintenance), summon a weaker air elemental (without titan´s breath)
Lightning shield (new) – mage, tactical (one battle only) or strategic (with maintenance), add mid resistance (%) to Lightning damage.
Thunderstorm (new) – master, tactical, low lightning damage, overpower, area one, unlimited range, chance to paralyze for one turn if target does not resist
Cloud walk (rebalanced)- master, strategic, moves (teleport) the caster army 2 squares in any direction (including enemy territory and over obstacles), plus one square per air shard, can be cast only once per turn.
Flight (new) – archmage, tactical (one battle only) or strategic (with maintenance), gives the unit the ability to flight at his speed.
Tornado (rebalanced)– archmage, strategic, very low blunt damage, affects all units, overpower, randomly scatters one unit per air shard that does not resist, can be cast only on the casters territory, can be cast only once per turn.
Summon elemental prince of air (new) - archmage, strategic, consumes an air shard. Only one prince of air per faction. If the prince is killed, casting this spell again brings back the same prince (with levels eventually gained).
Other spells seem OK, maybe needing some rebalancing in terms of costs and magnitude.
Few multi school suggestions:
Summon shrill lord (master in fire, earth, air and water), plus X levels per fire, earth, air or water shard.
Antipode (mage in fire and water), very high fire and cold damage, single target, unlimited range.
Dust Storm (disciple air and earth), every unit in the field (friend or foe, except the caster) must resist or get an accuracy penalty.
Storm call (master air and water): every unit (except the caster), every turn must resist or be hit by a lightning bolt. Consumes mana every turn.
Eruptions (disciple earth and fire): every turn a random square on the battle might erupt (the more shards, the more squares). A unit standing or entering a erupted square takes damage.
Several create golems options. Golems would not be considered summoned creatures, and could only be created outside combat (strategic spells) they should cost mana and gold to create and have a relatively high gold maintence (but not mana). Maybe “golemcraft” could be a researchable spellbook
Create sand golem (apprentice earth, air, life or death)
Create scrap golem (disciple water, earth, life or death)
Create stone golem (mage earth, life or death)
Create magma golem (master earth, fire, life or death)
Create obsidian golem (archmage earth, air, fire, water, life or death)
Sorry for the bad English, but its not my native language.
Completely disagree, magic is absurdly powerful, has been every game I've played. I have to force myself to not abuse certain spells or the game becomes trivial (well, even more trivial than it is until the AI's buffed anyway)
Agree completely with:
The current system is a bit mad, and tends to support the idea of taking people along for the ride, because they get FREE XP, just by watching.
*One hit one kill
A significant change to the combat system, but would give even better value to larger units and trained troops. There could still be a damage type that allows area damage, by exception ('sweep' for heroes with big weapons, 'fireball' type spells, etc.)
That is actually a good idea. In fact the original promise of elemental was that you could CHOOSE whether to be a front liner (sauron before losing the ring) and be a terror on the battlefield. Or a reclusive mage (sauron post ring loss) excerting your power from your ivory tower.
The path of the mage never existed in elemental since the only way to advance your sov was to have him do battle on the front line. Where it is better to focus on self boosting rather then battlefield control and unit assisting spells.
Having the choice of some paths of the mage would be very sensible thing to do. Where your abilities boost your capability to influence battles from far and boost your units. Perhaps with multiple paths such as general (augment existing units) vs summoner vs direct damage.
Combine that with some of the rebalancing ideas for the existing paths it would be awesome.
I kind of like the whole lord of the rings feel you get from getting heroes together and getting to work. I just wish late game was like the later movies where the heroes also had to rely on armies to finish the job.
Hum... I reminds me that there's a lack of "army" traits like the "+1 init for the army". There could be "+1 in stength(or whatever you like) for adjacent units)" or "+1 move in tactical map for every unit that starts its turn next to the champion that have chosen that trait" or "takes 1 point of damage from every damage dealt to all the units of the army", etc.
Those exist. They are rare but I end up with a good bit of them just through random leveling chance by the time I reach level 35.
I also believe the OPTION to Lord of the Rings the game is good, but it should be a option, this is why additional game setup options is needed. Perhaps an setup option to limit how many heroes you can recruit, and how fast they level?
If someone wants to pretend they are playing Heroes of Might and Magic (Which is not the design of the game..) where heroes are pretty worthless and require armies to do anything, why not I guess? Sounds boring to me but to each his own, but there should also be the option of gathering 3+ heroes and having them Lord of the Rings everything.
That´s what I´m talking about! Ideas to bring more balance.
When I say that magic is underpowered, I´m not ignoring the value it have as support/buffs and the abuse of some strategic spells. Of course what is overpowered or “abusable” in magic should be toned down.
I just fell that in a game that magic is the central theme, it should have more “raw power” early on the game. A spellcaster in the opposing army should always be something to worry, regardless of the point in the game.
I´m not simple proposing doubling or tripling the damages, but rebalancing everything.
As it is now, each shard increases the power of the spell around 50%. That’s far too much… It means less damage early on, and OP later, when you vanquished one or two opponents and took their shards.
I´d rather see a greater base damage and trait increased damage, and less shard damage increase.
If I´m not mistaken, the idea of shards as requirements for more powerful spells was tried on early WoM beta, but were not very popular. Nobody liked not being able to cast a spell for the lack of the shards. Besides, once you reached the minimum number of shards to cast the top spells, the other became redundant, only a mana source.
But what really concerns me is not making magic more damaging or powerful, but making melee based sov and champs less opverpowered.
I will post some screenshots to illustrated what I´m talking about.
I´m my first game in 0.77 the improvements of the AI are noteworthy (kudos for Brad). While playing in ridiculus difficulty for the world (I like badass monsters) and challenging for the AI (I like to see the best of it without cheating), Altar was able to vanquish three other players, properly expanding in their place.
When we met, Altar immediately declared war on me. It had almost ten times my power rating, and more advanced units. (1410 X 201)
My sov was lvl 17, melee based, with traits only in air magic for use of cloud walking and some mid lvl gear. Check him out:
Look what happens when my sov meets alone a well balanced, well equipped and well trained army of Altar (3 defenders, 3 archer, 1 city keeper) levels ranging from 4 to 6:
And that was on auto battle, the victory cannot be attributed to superior human tactics.
That sov alone wiped out the entire Altar faction, my other units didn´t see any action, I didn´t cast any spell except for strategic maps buffs and cloud walk. And the only reason I occasionally play tactical battles was to save mana.
Here it is what is left of once might Altar, razed city after city by a single sword swinging unit. Their power at 130, my sov at lvl 36 (gained almost 20 lvls slaying literally hundreds of Altar units). It´s their last city, with Relias injured inside:
This has been true since day one. People whine and whine about how OP magic is and how it needs nerfing but since the days of WoM to current FE a single melee sov could solo everything.
I beat 0.75 and 0.77 with:
1. Never building a single army
2. Never having a hero participate in a battle.
3. Having my melee sov solo everything.
At the end of a small map I am level 35+ and move 8 squares, to kill several enemies a turn.
I think the real issue is that no matter if you are using magic or might, ultimately the sov can solo anything because levels count for way too much.
Summary
1. AI sucks so you can kill it with pretty much magic or melee champions or units or pretty much any tactic. Cos the AI sucks, *every* tactic looks overpowered and you can just focus on 1 or 2 things... Btw this is true of almost every strategy game, it always makes more sense to specialize in one thing..and ignore the rest..
2.Magic seems to be quite weak earlier but mid-level (with right traits + items) or late in the end, you can wipe out the enemy cos the AI is weak and doesn't do what you do.
3. There is no MP, but if there was.. the melee champion using strategy would probably defeat the magic using champion strategy (not sure)
4. There is no MP, but if there was, the melee or magic using champion strategy would kill the unit using strategy player. (not sure)
I hope the above example helps people (and the devs) to understand my point.
When I say that magic and armies are weak and melee champions and sovs are overpowerd I´m not simply talking about spell damage, armies hit points and the like. I´m talking about the general balance of the game.
A “pure mage” sov could not single handily defeat an entire faction so powerful this way. You would eventually run out of mana or hit points, even if you have the right shards to back your spells. Not to mention the risk of bumping into a “mage killer champ”. When I say Altar had hundreds of units, especially archers, that’s no exaggeration. I have found as many as five full stakes occupying the same square. No pure mage could deal with that, especcialy without ever stopping to regain hit points, waiting for mana to fill or using any healing item. With my melee sov I was just auto battling whatever crossed my way, non stop.
Likewise, a 9x9 army outfitted with my best equips could not do the same, they would be all dead after two or three battles.
The only way Altar could have a fighting chance was with similar melee sov or champ, but if that’s the only way to go, them the game becomes extremely poor as a strategy game.
By no means I´m against the sov and the champs taking the field, that’s a key and fun aspect of the game. When I say it would be nice to have a reclusive sovereign build, and a more “general like” build, I say it´s totally up for the player to choose.
If people have fun with epic heroes battles (like myself), them let them have their fun and focus on sov/champ building.
The problem is that without proper balance, the game will end up being a champ X champ game, where other options (including the magical ones) are relatively meaningless.
I really would like some dev to take a good look at this tread and the ideas that everybody posted, there is real gold in here, but I´d like especial attention and consideration to the one hit one kill and eliminating the multiplier on the overpower feature.
I believe those two can greatly tone down the sov/champs, valorizing regular troops, without turning the champs uninteresting or useless.
I agree. Really this is two different issues. Firstly, champions need a large xp curve. It should take a lot more effort to level after a certain point, and lower level units should stop giving high level units xp. Secondly, the leveling up bonuses are too high. You should not be able to double your hp in 2-3 levels. This is a carry over from WoM, and it sucked there to.
Agree. OP has good ideas.. Loved the spells also particularly the summoning and metamagic ones.. We really need more variety of spells.
Not sure about one hit one kill could be an option. I personally like super powerful heroes but even I think experience should be shared between all in battle.
This is brilliant! Particularly the gain exp from distance battles... We need more channeler only traits! What I dislike about FE is that there is nothing particularly distinct about the sovereign compared to champions you imbue.. If I want to make my sovereign a powerful magic user..I should be able to make him way more powerful than any champion I imbued.. whether it is from distance casting or in personal battle. But currently I can't.
Currently channelers really are nothing special..
I wish I had your power to summarize things
That’s what I´m trying to say.
Against the current AI any strategy will work, but if we where playing against humans, it would all come down to who has the most powerful melee champs and sov, because this option is so much better than going the “archmage” (with path of the mage traits) or the “general” (using mostly regular troops) way…
The abusable magic that now exists is abusable as long as you have the spell ranks, no need to follow the “path of the mage”.
That´s why the balancing is so necessary.
I really would like to see how the “one hit one kill” would work. If it doens´t work we can always go back or try something different.
It´s a beta test after all, let´s test…..
You know, the core issue I think isn't that armies are weaker but that armies are impossible to field.
What I mean is that to make an uber melee sov I just need to walk around killing monsters and looting their uber items. Pretty soon I will be decked from head to toe with magic items and am level bazillion that combined make me unstopable. I can't buy him any equipment since even a massive empire can never build a piece of armor or weapon superior to what he has.
Wielding armies is actually IMPOSSIBLE due to the economy. You just can't field anything effective. I think armies should all be 10x the unit count, gold income be doubled at least from all sources, and city build rate be increased to 10x with spillover such that more then one thing can be built a turn. Also some of the basic army research needs to be WAYYYYYY cheaper and faster to acquire. (ex: the ability to equip army with weapons)
That way cities actually finish building improvements rapidly and at a reasonable rate and then build army units which will get fielded, and wouldn't be 3 guys with clubs (useless speedbumps... well XP Gifts to the enemy). Also need to let cities upgrade armies. And militias should get some upgrades with tech ups.
The mage vs melee sov issue is a bit more delicate balancing issue than that... but in both case a big issue is that level matters. For all creatures, level gives huge big massive bonuses. A dragon is a tough opponent because its a high level, not because it has higher constitution or strength (base amounts are irrelevantly small). Levels should not provide a bonus at all, only feats selected at levelup should. And a dragon should not be powerful because its a high level monster but because it should have strength/constitution/etc that is 2 orders of magnitude higher then a humans.
Thanks there are a lot of issues here..I see on the forum many people are arguing at cross purposes due to this
To be frank ideally I prefer this
Champion using strategies should be stronger than unit using strategies say 10-15% more effective , cos I prefer champion based games
Magic champion using strategics should be stronger than melee champion using strategies say 10-15% more effective , cos I prefer magic based games
I am not taking into account "General champions" that boast units strategies cos there aren't that viable.
Or we could have some RSP system here..
Magic using champions at high level would wipe the floor with swarms of Powerful army units cos of AOE spells but powerful units would murder Melee champions cos of the one shot one kill only limit. To complete the cycle, melee champions would wipe out magic using champions, cos magic using champions are more effective against swarms than against singular enemies.
But as i said before due to the nature of the game, I would prefer if magic strategics be slightly to moderately better but not so much melee and unit based are never used...
Levels increase hit points only no? I would actually like levels to tie in more with magic based stuff but you seem to be focusing on melee aspects so maybe different matter. Besides, I dont see why it is important whether something is deadly due to level or constitution/strength? Basing deadliness due to level more than base stats is a tradition in DND games..
No matter how high your base strength, a low strength level 20 fighter is going to murder a super strong level 1 fighter.. That is the way it should be..
I do agree with your comments on why unit based strategies are harder. The main thing is champions can easily ramp up.. kill creatures gain XP/pick up itmes makes them more powerful, so it feeds on itself.
With units.. you gain xp also, but you also tend to lose units.. you get no items to equip etc.. so it's harder to ramp up the process to make it more powerful..
I like the RSP idea.
Mages strong against armies and weak against melee
Melee strong against mages and weak against armies.
Armies strong against melee and weak against mages.
Monsters could then fall into 3 types:
Swarms are monster armies, eg 50 dog sized spiders.
Beasts are monster melee, eg 1 giant creature that hits hard
Horrors are monster mages, eg 1 bog monster that releases clouds of poison that decimates armies but doesn't do enough damage to meleers
Increase unit count in armies by 10x (while keeping their costs the same, and also boosting the economy somewhat so you can actually field any at all) and you would have a nice rock paper scissors game.
My level 38 hero gets:
+38 strength from discipline feat (+1 str per level)
+38 int from brilliant feat (+1 int per level)
+38 con from champion cuirass item
+38 accuracy from champion helm item
+76 accuracy from "level 38 bonus" (automatic +2 per level with no feat or item)
+38 Spell resist from "level 38 bonus" (automatic +1 per level with no feat or item)
+38 Spell mastery from "level 38 bonus" (automatic +1 per level with no feat or item)
Enemies also get accuracy/spell resist/spell master from level I think, which makes things wonky based on level. And also I am missing MOST of the "champion" set (each single piece of which gives +1/level to a different attribute)
He has 755 HP from
+30 base value
+3 courage (spell)
+721.2 from constitution
Caster heroes are weak early game but once you hit lvl 20 and have all the needed traits and spells levels you go to monster mode. At lvl 22 I kill anyone just by casting spells (well Golems need melee). Normal troops die fastest due to fireball and single heroes die to Storm. Haste and as many Initiative bonuses as you can get give you 2+ casts of spells before you enemy gets a turn.
Honestly, the problem is not the Heroes or the units, but more about the experience and level themselves. character level in RPG can't work perfectly in strategy game. Why? Because RPG game is different to Strategy game. The different is... that in RPG, even if you gain levels (a lot of them), the enemy become harder and harder in the progress, while, in Strategy game, after you defeat the enemy best unit (highest level unit), you are automatically win. Because, the enemy units won't be able to chase you in term of level and power.
Just remember DOTA (whoever have play it), when you can't catch the enemy level, can you kill the enemy? YES! but in 1 : 20 or something. Because with better items and stats, they are automatically become superior, much much superior to the other players to compete.
Now in Elemental game, you can win the game just with only one unit (superior unit with high level heroes and soldiers), that because after you kill the enemy's highest level unit, nobody can compete against your elite unit. FE is a strategy game, not RPG. You can't hope for the AI to become stronger and stronger when you have smash and destroy their best capability. Even they produce a lot of units, the result will be the same, they are just like cannon fodder that you can destroy easily without effort.
The logic is easy, a unit with 2000 HP, 20 all stats, is better than 10 units with 100 hp and 10 stats.
So how to balance the game? Don't raise the unit's stats too much. Level should give your heroes more option, Rather than raise a stat every level, just give your heroes a stat in 4 level (like in D&D rules 3), so level 10 heroes won't be much-much stronger than level 1 soldier. But, they have other option that make them superior, like skill and magic.
Plus, to prevent you to put all of your heroes together in one unit, Heroes won't get bonus from other heroes buff ability (including magic that raise their stats), but they can buff up their own self. So you want a hero that use a fire sword magic? give your hero that spell, otherwise, he got nothing.This way, you still can make a powerful champion who can smash the enemy single-handedly. Buuuuut, he must learn all buff magic himself
But then, there will be complain that the heroes will be weak, very very weak. Well, yes and no. You can say that the heroes become weak because he / she can't singlehandedly destroy the enemy stack / unit. You are forced to create units to protect your heroes. But because he / she has more options than the other units. Your heroes should be able to protect himself, can give the units buff, and help the battle with magic support. Or... with proper buff, he can help the battle in the frontline.
To balance this idea, unit other than heroes won't raise level, and you heroes got better stat than units at level 1.
The problem is, that in reality FE is an RPG with some strategy elements tacked on serving no purpose beyond faffing about.
In the game's current state, this couldn't be more true.
Just wanted to add another two cents to the "champs are OP" pile.
I just played a game on hard difficulty and, despite Resoln being like 5 cities, 80 points, and TONS of armies ahead of me, I absolutely wiped the floor with them using just my Sov. I mean, it wasn't even a challenge.
One Sov, about level 8, just destroyed armies of spearmen and other early game troops. I just walked over city after city and each one offered hardly any resistance.
I really hope the sovs and champs get brought in line soon, because their uberness basically hides any other potential balance issues with the game. It's hard to tell whether archers are OP compared to melee troops when one sov or champ just destroys entire regiments.
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