Anyone else feel this way?
It just feels like the mana system is... Bad.
Like, really, really bad.
Not really, it might help if you explain why you think so.
I realy LOVE the mana system. I love having different champions that all are able to cast spells but due to the global mana pool theyre not to strong.
Yeah, I like it as it is. What part do you feel is bad?
The only thing that I might wish for the mana system was that it would be a little more fine grained. Like if all the mana values were multiplied by 5 then we could have more properly tuned mana maintenance costs.
Yeah, that's about it. It feels a bit odd that the basic buff spells all drain exactly 1 mana. It's ok to be different!
I'm not saying it can't be tweaked, but I enjoy the fundamental concepts of the mana system.
1. Mana is gained by controlling resources in the world. Love this because it ties your magical power directly to your map control. You can't just be a "one city wonder" with an uber mage.
2. Mana is shared. Love this because you can't just get 10 mage champions and nuke each battlefield. Really makes non-mana units important.
I mean, I'm sure there are individual spells and stuff that have unbalanced mana costs...but I like the fundamental system.
I just feel that the current mana system just encourages sitting around on your arse, waiting for mana to get back up (or waiting for it to get to a high level) and then running around devastating stuff. With a max cap on mana and a much, MUCH faster mana regen, it might be alright, but the fact that I cast a single tactical AoE spell and have to wait a turn to cast another...? Not so good.
I wonder if mana upkeeps for some enchantments could be given fractional costs like .25 instead of 1.
I think what you don't like about it is the very thing that makes it an interesting mechanic that forces difficult decisions...
It is very much not this. Once you get into the midgame, you have functionally infinite mana for tactical spells unless you're wasting mana on the (useless) overpriced strategic level spells.
One suggestion that gets thrown around is having a functional limit on mana per tactical battle. That limit can be improved from champions and items and such. I honestly don't know if it would play better, but it certainly forces you to play much more sparsely with your mana in tactical combat while at the same time NOT making you wait around in strategic mode if you have a stockpile.
If you are sitting on your arse then how do you expect to gain more mana?
Just conquer with limited mana amounts (called "making due") and as you conquer you acquire new sources of mana.
Yeah, the system is just... Awkward.
Considering I'm getting 20 mana per season (if not more, with certain builds) at midgame... Quite easily?
Here's something that can solve everyone's problems...
Why not just put in a game option for a mana cap and faster mana regen from shards? If you want to play a game where mana is more "strategic" then you can play with no mana cap, and slow mana regen. If you want to play a game where you can fire spells off more often, but are limited per fight, then play with a lower mana cap and faster mana regen.
This is a PC game after all .
Maybe mana for tactical spells should increase with the number of appropriate shards being used for the casting of that spell. Because really, you're getting more power out of the spell, so why shouldn't it cost more mana?
Sorry, I personally don't see the problem. I play primarily as a magic user, but just like in MOM, I make decisions in each tatical battle based upon the opposition whether to rely more on my champions might or my magic, but I always cast some spells in battle, even if it's only to heal. My champions are diversified so my flexibility is maximized. I usually have a fairly large reserve, which once you get a couple of shards is pretty easy, since I try not to overdo the global spells which require ongoing maintenance. I've never had to turtle for long periods because I'm afraid to out & explore.
The only way I can see people being upset is if they want to use magic exclusively. Granted you can't do that now. If Derek can figure out a way to give people that option without nerfing the game you're welcome to it, but I've got no real issue with the current system.
I think the mana system is good so far (the only problem is the way casters waste it on autoplay which I've heard is being addressed).
Mana is a limited resource that you must carefully use as you would do with Gildars, Horses or Iron.
Mana is not scarce beyond the early game but there is nothing wrong in using normal troops to complement your nuker.
Because then effectively you might as well not conquer any shards... there's no reason to use them, because you're not getting more bang for your buck.
MoM had a channeling skill that limited what you could cast during a battle and what you could cast per turn as well. This would go up by putting points into the skill slider and also if you had certain skills like archmage would help to increase it faster. This made some magic take a few turns(depending on your skill lvl) to cast . I remember that if you had heroes with casting skill in your main city, your sill would go up and also you could put more points into the slider to make it increase faster. I also think Archmage gave a 50% bonus to this, I think, might be less. Im also thinking that as your heroes got further from you tower, the amount of magic they could use in battle started dropping a bit, though Im not 100% on that, and as well, there was a skill you could take for that as well...Channeler maybe?
It's amazing how we always have to look back to MoM to identify "the right way to do it".
Well, not surprisingly, I agree.
It was just perfect.
I do think enchantments need to have more diversity in maintenance costs, and fractional costs.
I'd also like to see a tactical mana limit based on spell affinity and intelligence. This would make using those high-level spells require some specialization.
Good call.
Really?
You can burn *a lot* of mana in tactical battles. Like easily 200-300 per battle. And a 1/2 stack of heroes can have a battle every turn, or every other turn, without much difficult.
I can easily burn through 600-900 mana clearing out one of the store areas with "epic" creatures.
I am okay with the Channeler system in MOM, but I think that the current system makes it difficult to perma-nuke all the time. Many battles *should* be fought with melee only, with your casters in reserve in case something goes horribly wrong. When you get to a major battle, you'll burn through a boatload of mana and have a flashy fight.
For a suggested source of material, I'd like to recommend the Black Company series of novels. The "Ten who were Taken", or the mega-mages of that mythos, spent a lot of time in melee for normal-ish enemies. Magic was reserved for desperate times, or for really large battles, or for mage versus mage battles. Those became really flashy, with both "strategic" and "tactical" magic used.
I've only put in about 10 hours so far in the beta, however, I've not seen mana production in excess of 50 per turn.
mana system is quite balanced and working imo, MAYBE i would consider some combat mana limit based on champions stats maybe int or something like that, but in general is already working well
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