I'll be blunt. I can understand the reasons for not including MP, based on time, budget, or a combination of the two. What is really, and I mean really rubbing me the wrong way is how the information regarding the complete removal of MP was just kind of dribbled out two days before beta. I would not have purchased Elemental without MP, and while that game was a bust I've been patiently waiting for a year as Stardock has stated they would like to make things right. It's not an issue of money for me, it's the fact that I feel that I've been strung along for years now.
If Fallen Enchantress was an attempt to "make things right" with the customer base, it has certainly had the opposite effect for me. I fully acknowledge that, as a TBS gamer who gets the most enjoyment from coop with friends, I'm in the minority. I get that. But I feel I've been lied to and strung along and it's left me more than a little pissed off.
I honestly and sincerely wish the people working on FE the utmost success, but I think I'm done with Stardock. I'm not going to do anything silly like a boycott, it's not that, it's just that I don't feel like I can trust a damn thing they say, so why bother following their game development?
Anyway, this isn't some righteous crusade or anything, I just wanted to make my voice heard. Don't worry, I'll let myself out and make sure the door doesn't collide with my backside. For the majority of people who were only interested in single player, I hope FE turns out to be everything you hoped!
I'm a "Stardock Fan boy"
So please relaize a Multplayer part like in civ 5 or so on. I and MANY of my friends will pay for it till 100$ i think. Multiplayer is the key for tactical games to be played a long time. Look at your Sins how long does the regular players play sins for his own? max. 1 year how long the want to play sin in multiplayer? for years not at a hig frequenz but they still on to play it. God games have multiplayer.
Only singelplayer Games with great story like Elder Scrolls can exist without muliplayer part. Or take look at GalCiv and now at there clones (Endless Space) lives still on and Legends of Pegasus have no multiplayer.
Yes of course Multiplayer is not like Multiplayer seen on Demigod, gerat Game but worriest Multiplayer i ever seen. System have reconnectable Options for (re)joining game.
So i please you to think about.
I will pay for it. Start a kickstarter project for FE i will invest and i also known some of my friends to do it too.
It does feel lonely knowing that I will never be able to play this game with my friends.
The challenge of multiplayer is just that - finding the right environment to FOSTER multiplayer play.
Good Examples :: - Friends who have a "game night" where they can get in, play for a few hours and then end the session pending the next chance - Co-Workers who prefer playing a game at lunch - School/College kids with nothing better to do
It goes on and on. I cannot argue against the numbers out there that show minimal percentages that play Multiplayer or that the percentage of time spent is single player versus multiplayer - but that makes absolute sense.
You don't want to get involved in 10-15 different games (at least I know I do not) - so it's difficult finding the same person/people to play a game through to completion.
However.. the one thing that TBS games generally tend to lack are "recovery situations". Once an AI force comes and whacks you, you're generally down for the count. Once you have beaten the AI.. they generally don't come back. It's rare to have that degree of "ebb and flow" in a game. This is where Multiplayer becomes fun - especially in Coop or Pre-Fab Teams.
When you know you're playing a game (be it 2 Humans vs X AI or 2 Humans vs 2 Humans with AI to be thorns) - you've got someone who's there to help you out if you're out of the gates slow or are in need of help. Those swings are really enjoyable and provide a level of entertainment that just isn't there in a single-player experience.
I agree, it's going to be a pain to develop the game for multiplayer.I agree, it's going to be a pain to balance the game for multiplayer.
I have a bunch of friends that I'd love to play FE with (heck or GalCiv 2) - and we're thwarted from being able to live out that experience of "Us versus the World" - which really is a bummer.
--Micah
If the world didn't suck, we would all fall off.
I do agree though
Sincerely~ Kongdej
Just heard about Fallen Enchantress a few days ago and immediately wanted to have it. Ran through a few retail shops - but nobody even heard about a game called "Elemental....". Nor have they heard about the precursor.
I live in Germany so, maybe that's the problem here
Anyway, finally I got it by download and ... after only 2h of play ... have to say it seems to be THE game I always wanted! A mixture of Civilization and Heroes of Might and Magic. Great work! Kael is definitely the right man for such a Fantasy TBS game. Still enjoying his Fall from Heaven 2 Civ Mod in Hotseat mode ...
While we are at Hotseat. For me it would definetily be a great bonus! My best gaming experiences ever were Hotseat Civ and HoMM sessions! It's too long ago where I had LAN sessions but, they were great, too. Or even better.
And I think Hotseat Mode shouldn't be too hard to implement since it's just kind of a 2 player solo game, is't it? Or do I miss anything?
From reading through this thread it seems that I'm one of the few who really like, and have enough time, to play turnbased strategy games in the long run on Multiplayer.
So from my side you have the OK to start developing at leat a hotseat mode
Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat Please imlement Hotseat
Sorry for bothering...
I'd love to see a Play By Email mode. No need to balance the game for MP, that'd take forever. Just let me fight someone more competent than the AI ("those archers have taken my spearmen down to 1/4 health! I'd better turn tail and run in the opposite direction this turn, rather than attack!").
I'd seriously like for people to stop with the 'I have a bunch of friends' argument. So what? A lot of friends never express any interest in playing the same game together, they just hang out and chat about their games.
I've given up on multiplayer in TBS because it's a novelty feature that will probably never get used. Hell, nobody I know has the slightest inclination towards TBS, it's racing and shooting games.
Now that's a rather crude opinion you want to shove down my throat, so because YOU don't want to play TBS I am not even allowed to talk about it?...I have played TBS with my friends, and I have used a whole weekend on one bloody game of Age Of Wonders or Heroes of Might and Magic, since playing it with your friends increase the fun. Well for me anyways.
Haha, it reminds me of my old WoW guild. Every now and then when the guild leader wanted to get something done, raise an issue, then it was always because "people had whispered him". When pressed for who exactly it was and why they couldn't speak for themselves, the response was always silence or preferred anonymity.
While I am sure there are people out there with friends that can't wait to jump into the action, FE is not the kind of game that you only buy for its multiplayer (if it had it). If you didn't like what was offered in single player, the odds are pretty damn good you won't like it in multiplayer either. And how many people really buy 4x Fantasy TBS games ONLY for their multiplayer?
Besides, Stardock have been pretty clear that catering to the multiplayer crowd really isn't viable for their profit (and thus the long-term goals of the franchise).
I actually really liked the concept of E:WoM, so much so that despite the reviews I decided to pick up a copy some time ago, and playing it with the patches found it very enjoyable. I then convinced a bunch of friends to try it, we eagerly loaded up the multiplayer, and were rather dumbfounded by the bizarre way it worked.Now Fallen Enchantress is out, and I knew there was no multiplayer at launch, but with the steam sale figured I could at least see if it was being discussed as being patched in. I see a lot of talk about numbers, and percentages of people who bought the game that ultimately played multiplayer in other games. (I guess I am super weird, because in Civ IV and Sins over half my play time is multiplayer with my friends.) Well, here is a little bit of a different take. I am in the mood for a TBS, steam sales are going, and a few options are presented, ultimately being narrowed down to Fallen Enchantress, and Heroes of Might and Magic VI.Guess which one I bought?
The one with multiplayer, even if I never get around to actually playing it so, at least the option is there.
Now I am not posting this just to say "Ha Ha, pffft" and go running off, rather I am giving a different perspective on the whole multiplayer debate. I don't know what the numbers would be for those like me, but I can say that despite the fact that I actually really liked E:WoM, I cannot justify FE over the competitors because it offers a more limited feature set with the lack of multiplayer. Maybe those who when given the choice pass up a game for another over MP is a tiny minority, but there is my look at it anyway.I hope if they continue the series they find a way to work multiplayer in eventually, it would be fun to play with my friends.Also, just because your friends don't enjoy TBS, doesn't mean that is universally true. Of the friends I often play games with, over half enjoy TBS, we've had some fun games of Sins, and a lot of time wasted in various civilization games.
The only reason I bought E:WoM was because it had multiplayer. It was on the right track it just never finished getting there. I just finally got the time to try out FE and was shocked that no Multiplayer mode was present. I was a early adopter to WoM and got FE completely free. I'm going to try it tonight, but quite honestly I don't no that I'll play it much without multiplayer. I also wish I could have received a steam key, as I love to have all my games in one place. Quite honestly, I would have already probably bought the map pack and any other DLC if multiplayer was present and / or I had a steam key for the game.
Just thought I would add my two cents to the party.
Frogboy please don't give up on MP.
Vorell
I don't know how people find the time to blast away merrily at their chums in shooty games, never mind a turn-based strategy game.
The thing that kind of kills multiplayer for me is that once you've experienced the great heights and the great lows in a game, once you run out of things to do (and who wants to come running to see an underground canyon in Minecraft the sixteenth time?) and once your friends lose interest and stop logging in to play, you have this great void that you promptly fill by finding a different multiplayer game and desperately try to find someone to play it with.
I'm tired of that desperation, of constantly jumping on the bandwagon and then finding myself unceremoniously dumped a few weeks or months later. Single-player games may not have the thrills that multiplayer offers, but they usually have solid replay value.
Hey, if you want multiplayer, knock yourself out. I really don't care if it gets implemented or not. Just don't start whining when you get your wish and it's not everything you wanted.
MarvinKosh, We play multiplayer for very different reasons, I for example never bothered with minecraft even though my friends wanted me to
I sometimes wonder if having multiplayer capability is worthwhile not for the community gameplay, but to incorporate the multiplayer into the game so that players in the community can design and share their own AI to go with their custom factions.
And that ^ is a GREAT thing. I've always hated developers wasting time and resources on adding in multiplayer when there is such a SMALL community out there that even plays it. Put that time and resources into the AI and let the multiplayers go play something else.
What a nice sentiment... Oh wait.
Well I'm not here to sentiment you.
Quite a selfish and introverted view I think, though I suppose that's fair enough I suppose since you say you don't care about what other people like. I could be selfish and say I hate it when developers waste time on a pointless single player game (like FE currently is for me because I find the game so dull without friends to play it with) But I don't. Because I wouldn't deliberately want to spoil things for other people.
I think the statistical data may not be being mined correctly though. Do people not play multiplayer, or do people not play multiplayer because of the way it is implemented in certain games? (Or marketed) For example, whenever I want to play a game which says it has multiplayer and then find out the multiplayer modes are different from the full campaign (e.g. A battle on a map rather than the full strategic experience.) it would immediately stop me buying that game. Plenty of people play multiplayer games and spend a lot of money on them across different genres. When multiplayer is tacked on a a half-baked extra it does nothing to encourage more people to buy it. (I know at least 6 more people I know would buy FE if it had working multiplayer.)
When companies say that people don't want multiplayer based on what they've previously provided, maybe they should review what they provided and what's available in the market, not just assume it's not profitable. There may be a large segment of the market they could target that isn't being catered for.
p.s. In the past, game like Master of Orion 2 etc. had wonderful multiplayer modes. I find it quite surprising that modern games fail to achieve what was done as standard nearly 20 years ago. It may be down to the number of resources and threads having to be controlled as games get more complex, but I still think that with the right planning at the design stage, it shouldn't be such a big problem.
Quite a good thread bigtrac, me thinks anyways.
Edit: I can't spell
Yeah yeah blah blah typical generalized statement just like I know 100 people who BOUGHT this game because of SOLO play being more important than multiplayer play. It has no value to me that you know 6 people that would buy to play multiplayer. There's also no real value in WASTING resources for a handful of people who would play multiplayer. MOST publishers tac on a multiplayer just for a few add COINS they get from those that do buy but you can bet your bottom dollar the majority of them make these games for SOLO single players cause THAT's where the real money is.
It's been PROVEN over the years (go do a websearch) that only around 2% of those that buy a particular game buy it for the multiplayer aspect. Hardly worth wasting prime resources adding it to the games. But, many publishers following the yellow brick road do. I'm glad to see STARDOCK isn't and putting ALL EFFORT into the single solo player game. Now, I'm not opposed when they have PERFECTED the single player game of them adding a multiplayer feature as long as they DONT BALANCE IT and ruin the single player experience like they did with the AGE of WONDERS series.
I would more than happily pay for an expansion/mod that implemented multiplayer, weather it was LAN-based or web-based. This game is such a sandbox-game when it comes to strategy, as you can pretty much customize anything and everything. Would it be hard for an external party to develop a multiplayer mod for FE?
Impossible.
And if he says it's impossible, it really is.
for what it's worth, me and my cousin care passionately about hotseat multiplayer, we want to be able to take our own faction each and conquer the world together
however he's expressed other more pressing concerns regarding a relative dearth of factions and leaders, lack of religions and civic/governmental controls, and terrain artwork. so multiplayer isn't the highest on our most desired list
Good GOOOOUID like Andy used to say.
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