I was recently in a friendly--for the most part--discussion about gay marriage.
Now, I really have no valid opinion on the subject, but I will say that I don't think galaxies are going to explode, if gays and lesbians are given the right to say "I do". After all, in the words of the great country music legend/drag queen icon Dolly Parton, "They should have to suffer, right along with the rest of us."And besides, I really don't think it's my place to judge them. What they do is between them and the God to whom they so cavalierly flip the finger.
It's their choice, it's their consequences. At least, that's how I see it.
However, because I made the statement that I didn't really agree with the homosexual "lifestyle", I was called a "hater".
Several times. Often vehemently.
Now, why am I a hater?
All I did, was to express an opinion; I don't "hate" gay people. My sister is a lesbian, and a very good friend is bi-sexual. The father of another good friend came out several years ago, and he and his "partner" are friends of ours, as well.
I simply disagree with how they live their lives. Is that so shameful and intolerant, really?
I mean, I disagree with how drug addicts and theives live their lives too, but am I considered a hater for it? I don't think so....And really, don't gays pretty much disagree with how I live my life, too, having that yucky natural, vaginal sex with someone of the opposite gender, and all.....ICK!
In fact, over the years, I've been derisively called a "breeder" and a "straight"; like there's something weird, or perverse about it. Why are they not considered haters, for that? For having that intolerant opinion about me, and what I do in my bedroom? For "hating on" my lifestyle?Why do we allow political correctness to only go one way? If you understand what I mean, that is? Why aren't both sides held to the same standard of decorum?
And you know, while I'm at it, speaking of hate, do atheists ever attack any other religions besides Christianity? They can say the most ignorant, vile, hateful, despicable things about Jesus Christ and the faith He founded, but they never seem to tag other faiths as severely, if at all.
Why is that?
Maybe it's because we Christians are an easy target; we might defend our faith in a debate, but other than that, we won't fight back very hard. They know nothing will really happen to them, if they nastily belittle our beliefs. I mean, it's not like we're going to issue a fatwa against them or anything, right?
And, they say these mean, hateful things because--as we all know--we're the haters. Not them.
Funny how hypocrisy works, isn't it?
Yes.
Dr. Ablow stated the point (which is Rightwinger's point in the OP) when he said:
and when he said:
Those threats of violence against Dr. Ablow were hateful acts not loving ones. The point is the hatred is coming from homosexuals against those who shed light on the truth of the devastating and destructive consequences of the sexual behavior of homosexuality.
The mission ("agenda" to you) of the Catholic Church is salvation of souls. Where does reply 149 plug that?
Are you justifying these homosexual activist's threats of violence (hatred) against Dr.Ablow?
That is your opinion and name calling your opponents would be laughable if the issue were not so serious.
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Regarding the video...
The answer to David Eisenbach's questions: In the Bible: Is homosexuality a sin? Are they (those who practice homosexuality) going to Hell? is YES.
St.Paul describes the philosophy of hardened sinners....
He warns us, in words uncannily appropriate to our present darkness...
19 Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of Him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; His external power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.
21 Becasue that, when they knew God, they have not glorified Him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
23 And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of four-footed beasts, and of creeping things.
24 Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonor their own bodies among themselves.
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.
27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
28 And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers,
30 Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy.
32 Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them (Romans 1:19-32)
May God help us, save us and have mercy upon us by His grace!
Firstly, let me explain to you, Lula, what you appear to have missed. There is a spectrum to all activities - homosexuality is one of them. For several of your previous posts you have stated crimes performed by homosexuals as an attempt to prove that homosexuals are proponents of hatred and malice. May I remind you that the small group of homosexuals who send death threats and cause public violence do not, in fact, represent all homosexuals? Look at it this way - as an atheist involved in certain pressing issues, I know a person who is an atheist and sends death threats and I do not agree with his way of doing things - he is a very disagreeable person. However, I also know plenty of people who are nowhere near as extreme. Classifying these people as wrong, with your only evidence being a minority who send hateful messages and threats, is a gross misevaluation of the truth. Similarly, I also recieve death threats from hardline Christians on occasion, and it can be a particularly unpleasant experience. Would you accept it if you were recognized as being violent and hateful simply because of the actions some other Christians may choose to take? If you would not, then I would kindly request you to stop attempting to do just that to gay people. Thank you.
Secondly, am I correct in assuming that the passage you have quoted above, although appearing to be about homosexuality, does in fact apply to all sins? For I know for certain that many religions contain a multitude of sins in their religious texts that are often ignored or not followed to the letter for matters of convenience, laziness or simply because of a change in beliefs between when the text was produced and the modern day. Take, for example, 2 Peter 2:11, or Jude 9 - look those up and they appear to warn against the very condemnation that you have there. Do you agree that people are allowed to not follow that particular part of the Bible? What about in Genesis, and what it says about marrying your brother's widow? Is it simply that people are allowed to ignore parts of the Bible as they please, except for the parts that modern Christians deem important? I assume that you will tell me that this is not the case and am actually interested to hear your answer.
Finally. I note that you have made several points about the transmission of AIDS. Yes, it is true that gay men are the most common vector through which AIDS is spread. However, let me tell you now that this should not reflect badly on them. Looking at the statistics, although straight people are less likely to get AIDS than gay people, the least likely, and therefore safest, group is in fact that of lesbians. I take it that, in your point of view, that will not make you decide that lesbians are somehow better than straight people - however, if this is so, the converse should also be true and you should not look down on gays because of it either. There are plenty of diseases common among other groups - smokers, the old and the young, people who drink - yet I am sure you do not protest against these groups as vehemently as you are complaining about gays.
My favorite is when someone comes onto a thread about homosexuality and asks people why they don't protest against other sins so vehemently. It's usually because we're staying on topic. Also, it's a lot harder to argue that adultery, stealing, and other sins are okay than it is to say that homosexuality is okay in this current societal climate. So, basically, we don't NEED to say we're vehemently against them and argue about them, because you probably are too. If you're not, make a thread and we can discuss. That's why there are a lot more discussion threads about abortion or homosexuality than theft. There's only a debate there about the first two.
As for the point that one homosexual doesn't represent all homosexuals, right on.
As for the point about AIDS, right on again.
Overall, good post, not Extraneous at all.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/youre-promoting-hate-toronto-police-shut-down-preacher-at-gay-pride-pa
Here is yet another example where criticizing homosexuality is "promoting hate".
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BY CHRISTINE DHANAGOM
April 19, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - As homosexuals lobby for the prosecution of Bishop Juan Antonio Reig Pla of Alcala de Henares for teaching the Catholic Church’s position on homosexual acts, an international group of Catholic doctors has rushed to the Spanish Bishop’s defense, reports theCatholicNewsAgency (CNA).
Bishop Reig came under intense criticism after condemning homosexual acts in a Good Friday homily, and saying that persons with homosexual attractions can experience a kind of “hell” in their lives when they visit gay night clubs.
In a later interview with the Internet news service Religion en Libertad (Religion in Liberty), he reiterated that “the consequences for many people” of such behavior, are “coloquially speaking a ‘hell’ in their lives” and asserted that homosexual inclinations can be cured through therapy.
Responding to the controversy, the State Federation of Lesbians, Gays, Transsexuals and Bisexuals (FELGTB), with the Gay Collectives of Madrid, said that it plans to file charges against the Bishop for “inciting hate.” The organization also condemned outright the formal teachings of the Catholic Church, claiming that they “promote segregation and discrimination” and are not protected by the Spanish Constitution.
In an April 17th statement, the International Federation of Catholic Doctors Associations defended both Bishop Reig and the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Reinforcing a distinction that Bishop Reig had already made, the Federation emphasized that Catholic doctors had “profound respect” for persons with homosexual inclinations, but reiterated the teaching of the Church against “the practice of homosexuality.”
The bishop had condemned discrimination against persons with homosexual inclinations in his interview with Religion en Libertad, but noted that the Catholic Church had always taught that it was “intrinsically evil” to act on those inclinations.
I'll second that!
The following article sums it up for me.
by Fr. Michael Rodríguez;
Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, a leading world expert who has worked with hundreds of homosexual men over the past fifteen years, states, “I have never met a single homosexual man who said he had a close, loving, and respectful relationship with his father.” Dr. Nicolosi explains that boys have a critical developmental task that girls don’t: a boy needs to disidentify with his mother and identify with his father if he’s to grow into a normal heterosexual man. “Every boy has a deep longing to be held, to be loved by a father figure, to be mentored into the world of men, and to have his masculine nature affirmed and declared good enough by his male peers, his male elders, and mentors.”
Anne Paulk, a former lesbian, published a book in 2003, Restoring Sexual Identity: Hope for Women Who Struggle with Same-Sex Attraction. The core of her book is based upon results of a survey she conducted of ex-gay women who described their family relationships, sexual abuse, youthful experimentation and emotions. Paulk concludes that for a girl to develop a healthy female identity, it’s critical that she have: (1) a mother who enjoys being a woman and esteems her role as a wife and mother, (2) a family where the mother loves her husband and supports his role as the head of the family, (3) a father who respects and cherishes his wife and does not degrade her.
Mrs. Paulk notes that the following are significant factors in women developing an attraction to other women: childhood trauma, poor self-image, anger at men, poor relation-ships with either or both parents, and pro-homosexual media propaganda.
An integral part of the Church’s pastoral ministry to homosexuals must be to address the aforementioned issues with honesty, compassion, sensitivity, trust in God, and reliance on His grace.
The shedding of our Savior’s Precious Blood witnesses to the monstrosity of sin. Our Blessed Lord is afflicted from head to foot, torn and reddened by the spilling of His adorable Blood … and we continue to sin? Under no circumstances can sinful homosexual acts ever be approved. Woe to the Christian who denies the reality of sin! It is never loving and respectful to lie to homosexuals by telling them that homosexual behavior is o.k. or “normal.” Don’t be fooled by the well-orchestrated campaigns of misinformation and deceit by pro-homosexual groups which have infested the media. Instead, trust in God and His commandments! Trust in the teachings of His Church! Homosexual acts were, are, and always will be an abomination before God and man. This is an infallible moral teaching of the Catholic Church to which every Catholic must give assent.
Therefore, all Catholics have a moral obligation before God to oppose any government attempt to legalize same-sex unions. Here in El Paso, certain City Council members have remained obstinate in promoting public recognition and legitimization of homosexual unions. Whether they realize it or not, their actions are objectively immoral and gravely harmful to marriage and the family. It should be obvious to all Catholics what our duty is with respect to these members of City Council.
The U.S. Catholic bishops wrote in their Pastoral Letter on Marriage (Nov. 2009),
“The legal recognition of same- sex unions poses a multifaceted threat to the very fabric of society, striking at the source from which society and culture come and which they are meant to serve. Such recognition affects all people, married and non-married: not only at the fundamental levels of the good of the spouses, the good of children, the intrinsic dignity of every human person, and the common good, but also at the levels of education, cultural imagination and influence, and religious freedom.”
We beseech thee, O Immaculate Virgin Mary, offer to the Eternal Father the Precious Blood of thy Son in reparation for sins against the Sixth and Ninth Commandments.
Sancta Dei Genetrix, ora pro nobis.
Fr. Michael Rodríguez is the parish priest at San Juan Bautista Catholic Church.
Been a long time since I saw you post! How you doing?
And the hate continues...
Yesterday, a lone shooter, Floyd Corkin II, carrying multiple weapons, entered the Family Research Council building and began shooting. He shot a security guard before being captured and taken into custody by police.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/the-frc-shooting-americas-reckoning-has-come?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=212175d4cd-LifeSiteNews_com_US_Headlin
This hateful act of violence was labeled as "domestic terrorism" !!!!
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Later news accounts reported more information about Floyd Corkins II which seems to me reveals his act of violence against FRC was more of a so called "hate crime" than domestic terrorism.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/frc-shooting-suspect-was-volunteering-at-lgbt-center-obama-condemns-shootin?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=212175d4
No, you think Christians hate them, because you are completely misled as to what Christianity actually is.
Do you actually want to discuss something or are you content to just appear ignorant? You have one lousy book to read from and you cannot even get that right. What do you think the Crusades were for; to promote glasnost and loving relations with other religions? You don’t hate gays as long as they are not allowed to have children, conform to YOUR way of thinking and don’t practice their stuff else it’s off to hell with the rest of the people you don’t hate. These are the actions and demeanor of a proper bigot for sure, but a loving bigot according to you.
Right on Jythier. Thanks.
It would be nice.
The Crusades were just wars for the recapture of Christian lands and defense of Christians, not religious imperialism and if they hadn't been called to stop the Muslims from pushing Islam by the sword across Europe, Asia Minor, northern Africa, Egypt and Syria, etc., it's rather safe to say the world would be a different place today as we'd all be bowing down in submission to Allah.
Check history. Start by understanding the aggressive nature and fanaticism of Islam founded by Muhammad (570-632 AD) who was just as much of a political and military leader as he was a religious one. Within 100 years of Muhammad's death, his followers conquered Arabia, Damascus, Syria, Persia, North Africa, the Holy Land, and Spain.
The people of these regions faced an escalating spiral of persecution. If they didn't convert or submit (to save their lives), they were killed. Those who submitted had to pay an extra tax and were forbidden to even teach their own children. Brutal subordination, enslavement and violence became the rule for all Christians.
By 1056, the threats and times got tougher under the rule of the fierce and fanatical Seljuk Turks who swept down from central Asia and conquered all of Asia Minor. In 1076, Syria, in 1077, Jerusalem where they killed 3,000 people and continued to threaten the Christian empire of Byzantium. When it seemed death was imminent at the hands of the Seljuks, the emperor of Constantinople and the Christians of the East appealed to Pope Urban II for help and that's how the First Crusade came about.
When the Pope declared the Crusades in 1095, he declared a just war. They constituted a defensive reaction and one that was long overdue against the Islamic threat and aggression that had been mounted for 400 years and which with the Seljuk Turks grew fiercer than ever in the 11th century. The Crusades were waged to recover the Holy Sepulcher, which had become the target of constant profanation by the Muslims, for the defense of Christian pilgrims, and for the recovery of Christian territory from Islamic rule.
Pope Urban was convinced that the menace of the spread of Islam by the sword threatened the existence of Western civilization and in those medieval times, he alone had the power to organize a large expeditionary force to defend Christianity from the Muslim jihad advance. He called the nobility of Western Europe and hundreds of knights tore up strips of red cloth to form crosses which became the emblem of their service to the Crucified Christ.
For the medieval man, the Crusades were a means of defending their world, their culture, their religion, and their way of life.
For those who rant and rave against the Crusades, think for a moment about the anger, fear and frustration in all of us on September 11 for it just might make the Crusades more comprehensible. There are parallels...and the sense of what is at stake is nothing less than the survival of Western civilization.
It's true that some Crusaders were out for motives of glory and gain... for the wrong reasons....some nobles wanted to carve out a princedom in the East, some to make fortunes in transporting the troops and selling them supplies, and some peasants were anxious to escape the serfdom.
Two men or two women practicing their stuff can't produce children..by virtue of the fact the body parts don't fit. In their case, practicing their stuff does produce life, but it's bacteriological and oftentimes causes diseases, sometimes fatal.
Having two people of the same gender as "parents" is intrinsically disordered and unnatural. So make a case.....why should we (society) subject innocent children to this intrinsically disordered and unnatural arrangement?
You say we hate, GFT, but what I see from Lula was a genuine concern for the health of those practicing homosexuality.
As for how a Christian is supposed to act, we should love God and love other people. This isn't rocket science, it's just difficult to actually do it due to our selfish natures. Love means taking care of people spiritually and physically, but spiritually always matters more.
That's because the ideals and morals that are drawn from Christianity are not forming the culture, but rather those of Secular and Atheistic Humanism are.
Lula, I am going all the way back to the 4th century when Constantine nationalized Christianity which was the beginning of the downward spiral towards the inquisitions (the purging of religious competition and malcontents) all the while sequestering or destroying as much of the (known) world’s knowledge base as possible. Continue on to the Crusades which failed to take back lands that were never theirs in the first place, after countless deaths and destruction aplenty of course. Then we get to the 15th century when the papacy decided that the world belonged to Rome and sent their minions to pillaging the non-Christian world. Murdering much of the world’s aborigines and enslaving even more to be shipped back to Europe where they worked the rest of their short lives for European Christian aristocrats and rich and powerful church clergy including the papacy. The only reason you are pacifists today is because your armies of old no longer exist. And probably most are just plain cowards who can only function under a religious shield while they throw insults at and making demands of the world at large and they justify this nonsense by playing the religion-default card whenever and for whatever reason they choose.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/petition-asks-white-house-to-officially-recognize-catholic-church-as-a-hate?utm_source=LifeSiteNews.com+Daily+Newsletter&utm_campaign=ad535a9660-LifeSiteNews_com_US_Headlines_01_07_2013&utm_medium=email
Petition asks the White House to officially recognize the Catholic Church as a "hate group".
I have tried to discuss some of the major problems with Catholicism (amply shown in this clip) and on every instance you made appeasements and excuses for them even going so far as to tote the catholic reasons why they were necessary for the RCC. I am tired of hummm; a few bad apples don’t spoil the barrel or some such saying. Well your bad apples always were and still are at the top and those bad apples do contaminate the whole barrel. The RCC has never and will never sin … my eye. I judge the Roman Catholic Church by the standards they set for themselves when they had themselves convinced they had a god on their side … as well as the processes they entertained to convince everyone else of perfection.
Short History of the Catholic Church http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSD1EW-FQBQ
The sad part is that you believe this nonsense still today; witches, demonic possession, exorcisms, curses and spells and who knows what else. But you don’t believe in science, you have no use for a practical education, you don’t trust modern (evolutionary) medicine and you view everyone without the catholic label as being inferior. You also seem to operate under the impression that mankind as a subspecies (until conversion) has nothing better to do with their collective time than to spend their resources and efforts on trying to destroy the RCC … hahaha. Yea, guess I would see that as hate too for sure … but a self-induced delusion none the less.
So you join in.
To that I quote Saint John, "If the world hates you, know that it hated me before it hated you."
As to your video clip, I've always acknowledged the people part of the CC are sinners. That's why Christ came, ..to save us from our sins.
But men who hate Christ and His Church prefer unrighteousness or their own righteousness, which leads them to suppress true righteousness so as to keep their sins undercover or worse claim there is no such thing as sin. That's what is happening with homosexuality. We (society) is now claiming that homosexuality is not a sin but rather just another lifestyle. The CC who has constantly declared homosexuality a sin is now on its way to being charged and persecuted as a hate group and why...for telling the truth.
When the Apostles (and their successors and followers in Christ's Church) bring Christ's Gospel which tells men the truth that they are sinners, they are despised the same as Jesus was despised.
The individuals in the world from the time of Christ (Herod who attempted to murder Him as a babe in the manger), have various means and graduations of their hatred toward Jesus, and any turning away from Him is a joining with the world, and the degrees of hatred for Jesus' followers will precipitate accordingly.
Not my kind of thing Lula … I don’t do hate anymore, there are plenty of catholics to carry that torch.
Not that simple Lula. This is just your get out of hell card and your permission slip to do as you please all-in-one. As long as one suckles with your church there is no crime or atrocity that cannot be forgiven for one of the sheeple. But anyone gaining sustenance elsewhere can be forgiven for absolutely nothing. Sounds super bigoted to me???
I am not “men who hate Christ” (call me Michelle if it helps) but these generic answers sure get on ones nerves. I am sure I know how you feel about Jesus … and I am sure you know how I feel about jesus too. It is silly to talk about fictional characters with such emotion (IMO). Homosexuality has been around way longer than christianity and I am not going to involve myself with your homophobic prejudices.
Lula when you promote your cause as the only one possible, a cause you will not even question yourself and one that nobody has any other option (IYO) than to capitulate to it … you had better expect a fight with pretty much everyone you look down upon. Your church doesn’t make friends; they convert people (voluntary or not) or they create enemies (voluntary or not) just because they cannot help it. I don’t have an ounce of sympathy for a church that intentionally provokes the world at large on all matters large and small alike … or the people who blindly follow it.
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