I was recently in a friendly--for the most part--discussion about gay marriage.
Now, I really have no valid opinion on the subject, but I will say that I don't think galaxies are going to explode, if gays and lesbians are given the right to say "I do". After all, in the words of the great country music legend/drag queen icon Dolly Parton, "They should have to suffer, right along with the rest of us."And besides, I really don't think it's my place to judge them. What they do is between them and the God to whom they so cavalierly flip the finger.
It's their choice, it's their consequences. At least, that's how I see it.
However, because I made the statement that I didn't really agree with the homosexual "lifestyle", I was called a "hater".
Several times. Often vehemently.
Now, why am I a hater?
All I did, was to express an opinion; I don't "hate" gay people. My sister is a lesbian, and a very good friend is bi-sexual. The father of another good friend came out several years ago, and he and his "partner" are friends of ours, as well.
I simply disagree with how they live their lives. Is that so shameful and intolerant, really?
I mean, I disagree with how drug addicts and theives live their lives too, but am I considered a hater for it? I don't think so....And really, don't gays pretty much disagree with how I live my life, too, having that yucky natural, vaginal sex with someone of the opposite gender, and all.....ICK!
In fact, over the years, I've been derisively called a "breeder" and a "straight"; like there's something weird, or perverse about it. Why are they not considered haters, for that? For having that intolerant opinion about me, and what I do in my bedroom? For "hating on" my lifestyle?Why do we allow political correctness to only go one way? If you understand what I mean, that is? Why aren't both sides held to the same standard of decorum?
And you know, while I'm at it, speaking of hate, do atheists ever attack any other religions besides Christianity? They can say the most ignorant, vile, hateful, despicable things about Jesus Christ and the faith He founded, but they never seem to tag other faiths as severely, if at all.
Why is that?
Maybe it's because we Christians are an easy target; we might defend our faith in a debate, but other than that, we won't fight back very hard. They know nothing will really happen to them, if they nastily belittle our beliefs. I mean, it's not like we're going to issue a fatwa against them or anything, right?
And, they say these mean, hateful things because--as we all know--we're the haters. Not them.
Funny how hypocrisy works, isn't it?
Hypocrisy is a fundamental characteristic of most Americans these days. I spend a lot of time on Google+ and come across a bunch of post from Democrats criticizing republicans for many things and more often than not I can't help but point out how Democrats can be criticized for the same things. Some dont like it, others pretend to be pointing at both but its obvious they are not.
The same goes with religious vs atheist debates on Google+. It's as if somehow one side thinks the other is so horrible but they only focus on one religion, Christianity. And if you mention how Muslims think killing the infidels is what they believe in, people dont fail to mention the Crusades or the abortion clinic bombings as if Christians are going around making terrorist look like kids with firecrackers and paintball guns.
When it comes to politics, religion, gender and race, most Americans are Hypocrites with a capital H and often stupid to boot. sometimes they don't even realize the stupidities they say when they try to defend their opinions.
Maybe it is because the LGBT crowd is not trying to deny the straight crowd such things as hospital visitation rights, pension and VA benefits, adoption rights etc.
Most probably really don't care how you live your life. There is a big difference between simply choosing how one lives their own life and criticizing how others live theirs simply because they do not make the same choices as others do.
I think maybe it is because it is Christian advocacy groups that are predominantly the ones trying to impose their religious views in this country through legislative actions.
You actually got two replies there, RW (in Philosophy/Life).
I do not see what hypocrisy has to do with the real world of science. The only hypocrisy I see is when someone whips out their trusty 147th rendition of the Book of Truth into the argument. When is the last time a Muslim or a Buddhist or a “whatever” pressed their arguments here on JU? I have said many times that my disagreement is with all religions and is the same. But if you are so narrow-minded as to think everything around you is an attack on Christianity, then you have a bigger head than I thought. When an atheist says they don’t believe in God, you somehow think it only applies to your chosen idol for some reason. Do you know how many religious ‘sects’ exist around the world (thousands) … but only you guys get picked on, I am so sad. If one is right and can prove themselves so... what need for hypocrisy? This is why the Church needs it … to fruitlessly argue their deceits.
What do you call a 'death sentence' ... jelly beans? Hypocrisy ... don't even get me started on that one ... you are discussing Christianity here right? I do not believe in God, so what, and I just go about living my life only now, I am in charge of it, not some religious institution hell bent on getting rich and deceiving humanity.
Maybe it is just because of the condemnation from all of Christendom since recorded (religious) times began. Seems like you guys made this mess come about (like most others we face) through a thousand years of inflicting as much pain and suffering and death as possible on gays ... not the other way around. Paybacks are a real world bitch … not that you yourself deserved to be treated that way. Two wrongs don’t make a right … but you guys need to accept your responsibility here, as the sole instigator and you deserve no sympathy when your ‘chickens come Home to roost’. You didn't actually use ‘Christian’ and 'tolerance in the same paragraph did you, hahaha? And maybe it has something to do with their treatment today in the name of God ofcourse.
I enjoyed your article.
I can relate for I have been called a hater too as recently as just a few days ago here on JU. I figure being called a hater that comes with the territory of disagreeing with the "anything goes" crowd.
As far as hate goes, these people hate absolutes, especially Almighty God's Absolutes and that's where Christianity get its "ought" and "ought nots", namely morality.
Well, this is the problem and where the complications come in.
"What they do" is no longer just between them and Almighty God when the instition of Marriage is changed to accommodate what they do.
"What they do" is no longer just between them and Almighty God when they expect my tax money to pay for what they do and all the troubles and disease what they do is known for.
And one day saying that will be considered a hate crime.
They want the right to civil marriage not religious marriage, so God really has nothing to do with it and they are not asking to change the institution of marriage as you see it in religious terms.
Lula, (god help me) are you saying that people are not permitted to go elsewhere than the RCC to be 'properly wed'? If that is the case, then I never have been married hahaha. You don't think I would rely on the Church do you...? What about the Christians that are gay ... or is this mostly just their 'openness' ... just write them off too. Just start with the Romans and work back through history ... homosexuality has been around longer than Christianity has.
[/quote]
I don't really see what one has to do with the other, but okay....
Well, outside of Africa, of course, homosexual contact remains the main conduit for spreading AIDS and AIDS-related sicknesses, despite 3 decades of waiting for it to "make the jump to heteros", as the PC medical community puts it. AIDS was supposed to be an epidemic by 1990; yet it's still mainly an issue of homosexual contact .Well, homosexual contact and IV needle-sharing by the drug addicts I mentioned above. I, of course, in my infinte hate and intolerance, find that somewhat significant. I make many poor choices in my "lifestyle"; none involve purposely, knowingly, willingly, engaging in activity which would expose me to AIDS. Sorry; not gonna do it.
[quote who="Smoothseas" reply="2" id="3052154"]I think maybe it is because it is Christian advocacy groups that are predominantly the ones trying to impose their religious views in this country through legislative actions.]
Perhaps; but there is at least one other religion in the world, which is far more intolerant and imposing, yet it never seems to take many hits.
See, though, you make a typical mistake of the anti-Christians; you want to lay the blame at the door of the faith as a whole, rather than at that of the flawed, faulted faithful.
Wooow; my, my...look at all that hate. Thanks for proving my point so handily.
People want the right to a lot of things, but homosexual "marriage" is an absurdity. Those states and countries in which it has been passed into law are doomed. It's just a matter of time. Marriage is not a creature of the state that can be changed at man's fickle will.
Marriage was established by Almighty God in the garden of Paradise. God created them male and female and blessed them saying, "be fruitful and multiply." Marriage between a man and a woman is a relationship rooted in human nature and governed by natural law which is universal and immutable. It applies to the entire human race, equally.
That's why whether it is civil or religious marriage, it is still a covenant before Almighty God. But, yes, Christ elevated marriage to a Sacrament in Christianity.
Throughout every civilization, Marriage was always a covenant between a man and a woman by which they could produce children for the benefit of society to go on. The State (until Obama got elected) has always had a compelling interest in protecting, supporting and promoting marriage. This aids in perpetuating and strengthening society.
In general, getting the marriage tag isn't really about having hospital visitation, getting benefits, etc. All that is just a ruse. It's about moving the homosexual part of the sexual revolution forward, getting the State to actively promote homosexuality as normal, acceptable, respectable, even good as is heterosexual marriage and punish those who disagree. From there, the State (with the eager help of teacher unions) orders the public schools to teach its acceptability to children.
Hmmmmm .... what are "secular morals" anyway?
She did say:
So although you wish your point was being proved you certainly don't understand the difference between debate,discourse,disagreement and hate.
It has everything to do with the issue. Unfortunately you seem to confuse disagreement with hatred. You also seem to be incapable of distinguishing between individuals since not all individuals within the group you are stereotyping display the same degree of disagreement which may or may not be hatred.
You have your facts wrong. When you look at the statistics globally the spread has always been mainly through heterosexual contact. Maybe that is why you wish to so "conviently" exclude Africa. In the US it is also spreading now more through heterosexual contact than otherwise. The fact is it is spread through sexual contact irrespective of sexual orientation. So should the table be turned now and intolerance be directed towards heterosexuals as well since the statistics show that? Of course I don't believe that however I am simply showing that you cannot hide your intolerance through such invalid uninformed untrue BS.
It takes plenty of hits. Atheists in the US simply don't need to get involved because certain other religious groups are not getting laws passed to impose their views on others in this country.
I'm not Anti-Christian. I was raised as a christian and still live by Christian values. I simply don't believe in God but even in light of that I seem to be more tolerant of others than many who do believe in God. Maybe that is because the pastor who preached in the church I attended as a kid was more tolerant of others than some? I simply strongly disagree with those who are trying to impose their beliefs on others through the lawmaking process. I believe some of the things they are trying to pass are unconstitutional, specifically some of the issues that are being pushed on religious doctrine.
In the end maybe you will realize that it has very little to do with what you believe....It has EVERYTHING to do with the people who are trying to impose those beliefs on others.
Marriage was created by men who wanted to control who could and couldn't marry and to make sure that the couple and their offspring would be throwing their coin into their offering plates instead of elsewhere.
The quote feature isn't working .....
smoothseas posts #14:
I simply strongly disagree with those who are trying to impose their beliefs on others through the lawmaking process.
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Listen to you!
By changing one man one woman marriage, homosexualists are trying to impose their beliefs on others through the lawmaking process.
Their belief in which they try to get the State to legitimize is that sodomy is equivalent to heterosexual marriage.
It isn't on grounds of nature and the natural law....the body parts don't fit and the only life produced is bacteriological. Yuk.
That sexual arrangement is most often detrimental to the individual participants, to their families, as well as the greater society.
You are barking up the wrong tree.
And so, what of subtly encroaching Sharia Law?
Examples? I think prayer and bible-reading should be allowed in schools; this country survived and thrived for many years with it. Yet, it has been disallowed by law. I don't believe in, say, abortion, yet its existence is forced on me by law. Let's say I don't believe in gay marriage; yet, its existence is being increasngly forced on me by law. Exreme examples, perhaps, but no less vaild. Why is it okay for us to be coerced, by force of law, to tolerate that with which we vehemently disagree, just because some--in many cases, a relative few--agree with, or want it?
Well, oddly, I live in America, and therfore, mainly encounter American atheists; for the sake of argument, we'll limit that statement to American atheists, then. In defense of my own religion, I will say that Christianity does not call for such things as honor killings, beatings, stonings, forcing others to adopt the faith, etc. In fact, Christ implicitly insructed against it.
Well, according to what I've been able to find, China is the only country (outside Africa) where heterosexual contact is causing a jump in AIDS cases, with a 40% increase. Of the rest, 32% is still through good, old homosexual contact and, of course, drug abuse.
I'm not confusing anything; i was the one, in disagreeing, was accused of hatred, remember? Simply because I disagreed with the way homosexuals do their thing. That's my prerogative, isn't it? it's her preogatve to disagree with me. There is a lot of unnecessary heat in her comments, though, that, I'm guessing, doesn't stem merely from her reading my little post.
And you tell me you don't see the hate in there? But, of course all religions think they ave it right. It's the nature of religion; even differing sects and denominations within religions....according to Gandhi, though, if not for Christians, Christianity is the one major religion that makes the most sense.
Yes, because most everything atheists in this country charge Christians with, Islamists are guilty of, in a big way, but no one seems to want to notice. Europe is finally starting to stand up and say "enough Islam". There are places in cities in France and England where the laws do not apply, and police do not go, because they have no authority; the Muslims have made themselves little enclaves, or ghettos, perhaps, where they govern themselves. Banks in England can't even give out a freaking piggy-bank, because it insults Muslims. Some public schools in America have prayer rooms for Muslim students, who are excused from classes to pray; yet, if I wanted to go in and start a Christian Youth group, I'd be put through the wringer, if permitted at all.There are judges in America, now ,who are deferring the application of our own, constitutional laws to Sharia, in cases where the couple is Muslim. Do you not see the danger, here?
Well...maybe hate is in the eye of the beholder, then? But see, you'te allowed to say hateful things about, say, my faith or views, if you like, without being called on it, I'm not, even if I wanted to. That's where I'm coming from. No one should be accused of hate, simply for having an opinion contrary to the one in the room. That's where the "standard of decorum" part comes in. Often, I find, such things are simply an attempt to summarily silence the one expressing the contrary position.
Rightwinger posts 21:
I'm not confusing anything; i was the one, in disagreeing, was accused of hatred, remember? Simply because I disagreed with the way homosexuals do their thing. That's my prerogative, isn't it?
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And this is the crux of the matter and where calling you hateful or a hater is leading. This is leading to those who disagree or disapprove of homosexuality not being allowed to openly disagree or disapprove of it. They will go so far as to declare the Bible "hate speech" for after all, it soundly condemns it. It's just a matter of time.
It's really coming down to being not your prerogative to disagree or disapprove of homosexuality, at least openly.
They used to be tolerant of us being tolerant of them, but this is ending. Now, if we don't hum to their tune, they want us to shut up.
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BT posts:
The Pope when he travels around the world and speaks of other religions always offers respect. But respect and thinking all religions are equal are two different things. They are not.
Rightwinger posts:
Yes, it's true all religions think they have it right. But that is not possible. If any one of them is right , then it follows that the others are all wrong. And it's our duty to inquire and find the right one.
Got to agree with you here. By far, Christianity makes the most sense.
Rightwinger; you need another bible because all you mentioned (and some) is well documented in the ‘real Bible’ or did you miss those passages? Gay marriages exist and always will if not legally (for now) so get over it. Regardless of the law, do you think many self-respecting gays are going to flock to the local church to get hitched … forced on you HOW? Same with abortions … they will continue regardless of the law or the church’s view, so get used to that too. All you are going to do with this great cause … is to jeopardize the lives of the mother too. Leave the gay community alone; they have nothing to do with science OR religion, give it a brake. You religious folk get this crap taken care of in court … then come and pester us and our children if you can hahaha; we have many options too. Submit your ‘scientific papers’ and have them peer reviewed just like everyone else does and stop whining. You couldn’t BS the School Board, the legal system or the scientists … so please stop trying to BS us?
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