Some people just want to farm as an AD carry. They do just want you to be a buffer between them and the enemy for 15 minutes, so that they can get a 20 minute IE. 

A good support can carry a bad carry through the laning phase. A good carry is going to have a much more difficult time carrying a bad support. 

On the other hand, that good support isn't gonna be so useful 40 minutes in the game compared to a good carry.

Yeah - a good balance is difficult for me to strike up as a support, methinks.  You've got your ideal situation (take a taric for example) where anytime you toss out a stun, your AD carry is all over following through on the harassment or going for a kill.  By the time I toss out like my 3rd stun and the ad carry doesn't even consider hitting them... well its about that point where I think they are absolute rot and useless.  I get that its not always power plays, but if its zero effort to even take a shot at harassing the enemy when a clear opportunity is there, it just gets very boring.  It also makes the keeping them alive aspect of support more difficult as they have literally done little to setup a gank for the jungler (outside of letting the creep wave be closer to our tower (which is good, ofc))... but junglers always find 2 full hp enemies very desirable to gank...

Anyway, I supposed I'd rather have an ad carry that is just farming and useless instead of one that is feeding, but its just too boring and pointless imo with no harrass. 

And my ad carries are serviceable, but not amazing.  Ah well.    I could pretty easily do an urgot with you bot lane anyway. 

random off topic side note (as its not worth another thread on its own).  I just played through the darkness 2 on pc.  Its a fairly short game (like 6-8 hours or so).  Loved it.  Picked up up on amazon digitally for like 12 bucks.  Anyway, the art style was great.  The story was interesting and entertaining.  And the game mechanics were really solid.  I highly recommended it.  Great graphics too and was a blast to play. 

15 cs is a kill worth of gold and a lot easier and safer to get than a kill. Kills in lane phase are nice if they are guarunteed, but usually too risky to make it worth it. Going in for a kill and trading kills while losing a 10 minion wave to a tower is like giving them 2 kills while you only get one. Until they increase the kill gold gain on kill I will keep farming minions and ignoring the enemy in lane phase. It gives the most gold for my time so it is the most effecient way to win the match.

I get the basic logic - I don't get taking pot shots to try to force the other ad carry back.  If you can do it safely (while they are stunned for instance), then I think its a bit foolish not to take a pot shot here and there.  Especially if you have a support that can heal and/or shield. 

yah but if that pot-shot comes at the cost of 2 CS, it's no good. 

Maybe you cause the enemy AD to eat a health pot, then you're equal. 

If you can make them blow a summoners, or it leads to a future zone then it's definitely worth it. But generally, as a support, if i'm going at them, i don't really want my AD to do anything unless the wave is clean (or there is a 100% kill). The more time i waste with them running around me the less time they are CS'ing. i want to take any damage, i don't want my lane partner to risk taking damage. 

Also, generally if you do get a kill, you have to go to base. So you get a kill, that puts you a decent chunk ahead, you get a few free CS + exp from the last of the leftover wave, go to base. Then you meet at an equal lane again (creep-wise. Obv you have half a level + 400 gold ahead).

i'd much rather zone them. i'm a huge fan of zoning. i would much rather leave my lane opponents zoned, "thinking" they are alive... when they are really, basically, dead. They are getting very little EXP, very little gold. They aren't pushing objectives. 

Zoning someone out of 3 waves of creeps and experience is much more than half a level and 400 gold. And they aren't dying, going "mia", then paying a visit to one of your lanes and picking up a possible kill. And, generally, the jungler is going to come... but if you're warded, the gank won't do anything. Now you're "zoning" the jungler too by preventing them from farming their own jungle. If the jungler does hard-engage, if you're lucky you might pick up a double kill if you've zoned them long and hard enough. 

Well - here's my latest obsession of the night - tell me what you think (and side note - I'll mention it 1 more time - darkness 2 is a really good game - rent that puppy or get it cheap on pc - very well done and if you like fps's, you'll love it). 

Anyway, here's what I'm pondering tonight.  Tower ninjas.  I'm trying to figure out who is the most effective tower ninja while still being useful to the team. And who is the most powerful tower ninja period (eg I don't care if you are useless in team battles). 

Now in magic pacov world, the formula breaks down somewhat simply.  Who has the most survivability and can deliver damage at the fastest pace.  I'm thinking that this doesn't really even need to be a tower ninja as much as a tower beserker.  So consider, creep wave is out of position (eg not in a good spot for a tower push).  What character could unleash the most damage immediately diving a tower and likely get out alive?  And other side note - obviously this isn't the most intelligent thing to do at face value, but consider having a character on your team that could eliminate towers early game the moment you know someone has gone back to base. This may or may not sound appealing, but that's what I'm trying to figure out. 

Anyway, going the berserker route, who do you think would be best?  And again, by berserker, I mean no troop support, you are literally running straight at a tower, taking full damage and then hitting it (eg the fastest possible may to drop a tower and catch the enemy off guard is to do something that is a bit ridiculous).  Tryn with his ult could.  Blitz could with his ult of a shield and attack speed ability.  Anyone else come to mind that would be durable enough to make a crazy dive?  Would love to hear some theory crafting from you folks based on the berserker method.

I did some tests with blitz that were a little surprising.  If I earned about 2400 gold from the start of the game, I could take out a tower in about 11 seconds doing a straight on dive.  This is around level 6-8.  Think about for a moment.  At level 8 or less, running headlong into a tower and killing it in 11 seconds if no one is there to attack me (other than creeps).  That may or may not sound impressive to you, but to me, it does.  That's taking full damage from creeps and a tower and killing the damn thing in 11 seconds with 2400 gold income.  The downside?  The optimal setup is to take TP + whatever that summoner spell that gives bonus attack speed is (eg no escapes).  On the plus side, you can literally drop a tower almost instantly.  Say your mid feeds 1 kill and then the living mid heads back to base.  Boom - as soon as the mid is gone, you tp your ass to mid and destroy that tower.  You literally need 11 seconds (and side note, its even easier if you are using blitz as you could instantly ult and just about remove the enemy creeps to go at it with a creep wave).  Anyway, I'm focused on the berserker role.  Any thoughts you folks have + characters and builds would be appreciated.

And then there is the normal (I'm not a crazy shite) ninja category.  Folks that are good for this are master yi, jax (though not often used like this), and that chick with the boomerang (pacov's memory is crap).

Anyway, I know several of you are big theory crafters.  Any thoughts?  I will literally try out whatever sounds reasonable and then attempt to pull off the nonsense in a normal game. 

The magical perfect spot is to build a character that is capable of the berzerker route AND not be useless to the team outside of that role. 

Vayne, Shen, Shyvana, and Mundo were all used to split effectively at the last IPL.

Shen can't push towers the best, but has the ability to get into a team fight np np (or survive a long time if the entire team shows up). 

Shyvana is fast, tanky dragon form + burnout as an escape. Same with Mundo. Both push towers well, and build a lot of AS naturally. 

List of almost all of the patch changes and all stat/ability info of the 2 new characters.

http://www.lolpro.com/news/269-hecarim-varus-skills-and-stats-patch-changes

Oh - and delightful:  http://imgur.com/r/leagueoflegends/l2Gyw

soo... dbllift has the same opinion as me then?  sounds that way.  Happy to be lumped in with the aggressive bastards.

I don't really think its the opposite.  I think you are spot on about the AD + AD poke and not support poke comment though - doesn't seem to mention the support at all really - though clearly a good player is going to see a stun and tack on some damage. 

He's saying that he chose to be aggressive and poke if he saw a pattern of them just going for cs.  In support world, I'm just setting up a stun which can always be followed with aa or an ability.  Anyway, the bottom line is that he makes a call based on the situation to either go for a little harass or just collect cs - or so I think.  I simply try to setup those opportunities instead of just farming and farming and farming and farming and farming....

I was playing Viktor today, and I noticed something amiss...

I killed their Cassiopeia (silly thing, she stood still while I was firin lazors) and proceeded to push really hard to the tower...

as I attacked the tower, my eyes were drawn to the damage output and I was shocked to see that I was dealing true damage to it...

I had 76 AD and I was dealing 76 damage with each hit...

I have 21/0/8 masteries and I do not use the bonus tower damage mastery...

and I have mpen reds/mana regen yellows/AP per level blues/flat AP quints

This is not normal...

Or is it?

I am quite sure that I do not normally deal true damage to structures with other champs, but maybe I just don't know something about towers...

If this is indeed a glitch, could someone try it out for me please?

I have also noticed that during late game, I started to auto-attack an inhibitor with Viktor, no one was around, and there were no minions around either, and each attack did 368 damage, while my AD was only about 110, and I did not have a lich bane.

Can someone else try it out with Viktor?

I'll try to get screenshots...

It is kind of hard to explain, but there is like an auto attack against structure ap ratio and if it is higher than your ad you use it instead of ad. I know really bad hard to understand explaination, but it is the best I can do while being half asleep.