The meta evolves based on the most obnoxious things you can think of. (And the most obnoxious characters available... Phantom Lancer and Keeper of the Light being the most versatile ones that I can think of at the moment [nerfs incoming]) For example, smoking a creep that you have helm of the dominator'd from the enemy, and then having your entire team boots of travel for a backdoor win.

that's fairly obnoxious, and a strategy that was apparently invented by an asian pro team a while ago...

You can't quite do that in league. Teleport summoner spell is a decent choice as it is to do something similar, but that is sacrificing a bunch of other potentially better choices.

In terms of watching pro teams from LoL and pro teams from DotA 2, the LoL teams will usually do something new and unexpected, but they try to stick to the established meta of Nuker/ganker, ADC, Bruiser, Jungler, Support.

In DotA, I really haven't seen anything that makes an iota of sense other than "well that guy's a carry," and somehow their games turn out beautifully. Sometimes the casters can't even keep up with the odd choices.

Since infinity is not representable by a value, and since I can use it as I please, I define it to represent the theory that there exists a value greater than LoL's "skill cap."

You really can't use math with infinity, especially after I used it to represent a prejudiced theory.

By "skill cap," in order to ascertain clarity, I define: "numeric possibility for overall improvement."

By my newer and more prejudiced definitions, I can now say "DotA 2's skill cap is infinitely higher than LoL's"

Since we have now defined everything, hopefully we can move past the "USE WORDS THAT MAKE SENSE prease." and into "well DotA 2 sucks IMO, so there"

Debacle

Boggle

There are entire fields of mathematics dedicated to dealing with infinity.  You can deal with it at fairly simple levels with calculus, or you can start using set theory.  For example, look up "Aleph number" on wikipedia, which discusses the cardinality of infinite sets (put in layman's terms, not all infinite sets have the same number of elements).

Pacov, I'm going to be blunt about this.  TRUST YOUR TEAMMATES JUST A LITTLE BIT.  LET THEM DO THEIR JOB AND YOU CONCENTRATE ON DOING YOURS.

I know how to play tanky supports.  I have a better ranked winning percentage with tanky supports than I do with junglers actually (through all 3 seasons).  Just let me play and please just concentrate on your game.  I don't need to be directed around the map like I'm a level 10 player or something.

Also, I'd really like you to go back to that game and take a look at it with a fresh mind.

 http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1/b/380635915

It starts about 30 minutes into the video.  Go back and watch that laning phase.  Then come back and tell me that that lane was lost because I'm a bad support or whatever.  Your first two deaths were definitely not on me (you admitted that both of those were on you).  Your third death was you going forward when you could have just waited at tower for the exact same CS and you knew I was warding river.  You got chunked down for no reason.  Then ate another skill shot and started blaming me (this is at about 12:30 minutes game time).  That is not my fault at all.  So you were 0/3, while I had no deaths and no responsibility on any of your deaths (nothing I could do about any of them really).  So don't put up a mega blog about how I suck at support because of that laning phase please.

Count up how many things you could have done differently that hurts us as a team, and count up how many things I could have done differently that hurt us.  I didn't play perfectly.  I missed a few skillshots.  Hec chunked me down once right when I came back.  But, in my opinion, you made more frequent and larger mistakes than I did.

That's why I'm somewhat frustrated that after that laning phase, you come on here and put up a big post about how I suck at this and it was my fault and all this.  That's not fair from what actually happened in the game.  I can go back and find a lot of spots where you just made poor plays, but my biggest misplays in lane (other than shanking a few skill shots) were along the lines of "you could have been slightly closer that one time".  We were already way down by that point anyway (btw, I'm not saying its all your fault - Hec was ganking a lot, Noc was useless).

As somebody who plays a lot of jungler and support (you know, the two most frequently blamed positions), I don't appreciate being scapegoated for every lost lane.  I really don't.

You said that you were frustrated that I was making fun of you for eating skill shots.  Sorry.  I won't do that again.  But I'm telling you this.  DON'T SCAPEGOAT THE JUNGLER/SUPPORT JUST BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T HAVE YOUR BEST GAME GAME.  WE DON'T APPRECIATE IT.

 And if you are sensitive about me saying stuff about your play, thats fine.  But don't be a hypocrite about it.  You called me a crap support multiple times throughout the night and then called me out publicly here.  If its not OK for others to make fun of your play, you can't be even be even more negative when you make fun of somebody else's play.

Udyr received another buff that at least I think is a very good one - When the speed boost is active on udyr's E, we can walk through minions. 

udyr now DASHES when close to his opponent when he uses E.  Riot confirms this is the intended functionality.  I'm going to get on PBE and check it out today.

well... that was extremely short lived.  They just took pbe down for maintenance.  I did get to try out udyr though. Still a mana whore, but should be nicer mid game and beyond levels.  The dash on his e only happens if you've recently activated E (eg the active is still active).  Not sure if you can dash to multiple targets or not on the same activate.  I'd think so, but don't know.  The dash is a gap closer.  Combine that with you being able to run through creeps when the active on E is going.  I think its a pretty good change and will make udyr fun and possibly viable out of top - still best as jungler though.  Here's a short vid of my time on pbe with him.  http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1/b/380873599

If you want to see the dash, skip to 4:20 VIDEO TIME.  Best example is probably around the 6 min marker where you can get an idea of how much he distance he really closes. 

I have no idea how I didn't see your reply until just now.  Well, I re-watched per your request and I still have pretty much the same opinion.  I don't dispute that I played poorly in the slightest.  I was quite, quite, quite, awful.  I'd rather not duo bot with you when you play leona as things stand.  That opinion is formed based on several games with your leona. 

It's not simply the way you play leona (try to understand what I'm saying here for a moment), its that you and I get into our little bitch fests with each other.  Those bitch fests are more amplified when we are duoing in a lane and things aren't going well.  So, I'm already distracted by the bitch fest, then you start doing things with your position that I don't understand, which confuses and frustrates me more - and then if I ask you to do something differently, the bitch fest continues because you're "not a level 10" player or something.  Like 1 time when you wander off apparently to ward when we have good potential for a kill, I get distracted trying to figure out why you are breaking off when you are.  Little bits like communication help there - "pacov, hold hold on a sec - i need to ward."  Communication specifically when you are doing something I don't understand is quite helpful.  But communication is a problem because of the bitching.  Anyway, it just all escalates.  So I get bent out of shape from game 1 and then continue to be bitchy all night, etc.  I'm sorry for that.  Anywho, with you and me, voice chat is often already more of a hindrance than a help - pretty sure you and I already know that factoid, though. 

Yeah, their stat system seems to be down.  Last time I checked, he was around 47% win rate in Gold level play and around 49% for Plat, but that was just one day so who knows.  He'll probably rise up when people start realizing that there are going to be situations where he'd be a good or bad pick, instead of the "go to" support.

He used to be that.  Taric has always been great against a physical damage lane, and only so so against a magic damage lane.  Shatter's armor boost was just wasted against AP supports with a char like Ez or Kog.  It kicked unholy ass against Graves.

Try beating a good Leona/Sivir lane as Taric.  He's nowhere near the power of Leona now and that chick is a hard counter for him to begin with.  2.75 seconds of stun, a momentary snare, and better AP damage than pre nerf Taric.  Her stun is still flat with the worst damage progression, a level 1 gimme.  She was always better, just a higher skill requirement because of no heal.  Now she just walks all over him, blowing through his heal and still surpassing his damage by a wide margin.

Taric is easy, but he hasn't been an OP support since they raped his armor aura.  Leona is hard, but OP as fuck.  They do have a similar problem though.  Both characters are completely worthless if your ADC is a retard and throws the lane.  You need to at least keep up as an initiator, Tarics ult is useless if he isn't fed enough to survive in team fights.

Edit: Just in case someone misreads, I'm ignoring this pissing match, or whatever it is.  I just realized I pulled a Leona reference that could be construed as applicable.

You wouldnt have this problem if you ran Xerath Support. 

Let me clarify. The DotA 2 team captains have their own frameworks, but they mold them based on the draft pick system that they have in place. (ban1, ban2, ban1, ban2, pick1, pick2, pick2, pick1, pick1, pick2, ban1, ban2, ban1, ban2, ban1, ban2, pick1, pick2, pick1, pick2) The captain of each team makes the picks and bans, and after the picks are completed, the team members will select their heroes.

There are a bunch of strategies that have been established as a meta (trilane support carry, solo all lanes + 2 junglers, permanently roaming midlaner, all mid, etc.) however, simply based on the picks a team captain has made, it is difficult to determine which of those strategies, if any, that team will be attempting. I did not intend for it to come across as "throw together 5 randoms and hope it works."

Secondly, I am not frustrated by a skill ceiling in League, I was simply making an observation based on my rather limited experiences (I don't watch every game, so I can't say that I know everything ) with both games' professional groups. I can't say I'm any good at either game, but I find DotA 2 to be more fulfilling and to possess a different(possibly better) community. (I believe that the trollish people from LoL haven't moved over because of their dedication to their sacred game.) I apologize if I came across as "this game bores me and my wonderfully amazing skills, pls make harder nao"

there do indeed exist hypercarries, but their ability to 1v5 the entire enemy team diminishes as the game progresses. (Unless they buy rapiers, and then they just become stupid) Carries are necessary as the game progresses through the late game because mages do not scale at all. They hit a damage cap and then basically become CC bots.

I suppose that you are right however, the skill of one person can and sometimes does make up for the failure of all other teammates, especially in the wonderful world of low-level play. (penta kill weaver game wherein I didst slay their entire team after an attempted 5-man gank) But cheese is very much a big part of DotA, and balance is dictated by hardcounters rather than rebalancing skillsets. The most overpowered DotA 2 characters aren't those who can instantly deal amazing damage or provide the most CC, but those who can fit into any team composition against any team.

streaming 5v5 in house now.  game 2

quick sleepy statement - your computer is poo.  Should not have to go through so much effort.  I'd bet money you have either failing ram or a crap mobo.  Really sorry its so much of a pain though.  I've built more than 100 pcs and am a huge pc hardware nerd.  Throw out some specifics about your pc along with troubles.  LoL only?  How often.  When are crashes, etc.  Will help if I can.

lots of fun games tonight.  Stayed up wayyyyyy toooo fucking late.  Brain was not working last game and not much now... anyway, night and thx for the games everyone. 

short public apology as well.  I wasn't really upset about karl's supporting ability and I included him in my passive aggressive rant.  Karl's a fine support.  My only gripe was about how he and I bitch each other out and refuse to listen to each other. I should have just had that chat privately instead of being all bitch like.  My apologies are given and I'll try to refrain from such rot in the future.  Night all!