I don’t have a problem with atheists — each to his own comfort level — nonetheless, it is ridiculous for one of that inclination to get rattled to the extent that others of belief are denied their comfort. Atheism by definition is free from religion. Theists are free to believe as they see fit; atheists should look upon these " misguided" as pathetic but have the right to the "wrong" path. If, however, atheist take on the passion of "religion" in their belief that there is no God, they in reality are in the business of propagating their non-faith as feverishly as the old Marxist line. In this respect they are as trapped in "belief" as the rest of us pathetic old fools. They should therefore lobby for a limited currency series that states "In "God we do not trust," or a postage stamp that shows a black hole with the inscription "Godless."
Lula, I am no more interested in your Idea of an atheist ... than you are of mine concerning theists ... grow up.
Now … does anyone want to actually demonstrate their professed knowledge and tell us who are waiting with baited breath … what is the “Religion of Atheism”? I for one just cannot wait for this jewel.
I asked:
To which you replied:
There, you just proved my point about Atheism.
....................
The religion of Atheism is Atheistic Humanism. Who are the gods of Atheistic Humanism? Man, himself is one of its gods; materialistic science is another. They both work to try to bring man into a religionless utopia.
The Bible states there is nothing new under the sun. Atheistic Humanism is a revolt against God. Like Lucifer luring Adam into sin, Atheistic Humanists are screaming, "we will not serve or love God."
Henri de Lubac, S.J. wrote of what contemporary adventurers in Atheism have failed to see is that "man cannot organize the world for himself without God; without God he can olny organize the world against man. Exclusive humanism is inhuman humanism". (The Drama of Atheist Humanism pg. 9.)
If you were at all interested in atheism … you would simply ask. You are out to lunch when you start out a communication by telling the communicator what they really are and what their real intentions are. I still find this amazing if quite foolish. All it took was for me to tell you I was an atheist … and magically … from that point on you had my complete life story laid out for me including my desires and intentions, hahaha. But did any of it come from me besides my free admission … hardly … it came from all the hate literature you love to read and devour … hook, line and sinker. Are you so lipless and thoughtless that the bible is your only support mechanism and defense? Has your mind really succumbed from the real world … to that extent? Lula, I have no use for the RCC at all ... period, not one word ... but it would seem that it is in fact all you know or care about. All you bring here is hate and bigotry as only a Catholic can! You are the only ones who need a god and now I know why.
Brief note to the Atheist...
My comments are concerning Atheists and the great sin of Atheism in general, not about you personally.
That's just it....I did ask.
You claim that Atheists bring some truth to the debate and of this I asked: what's true or good about Atheistic Communism and Godless Socialism? To which you replied:
There is no religion involved ... what could be better, hahaha.
So here I got back from you what I already know and clearly stated in my # 225 post:
The term 'militant atheists' needs to be redefined in terms I can at least tolerate ... don't you think. All this nonsense is just about giving you someone or something to hurl your curses at. I didn't realize that was actually an explanation of anything but your bias, sorry. OK ... since you insist (what a fool I am @$%##) ... Maybe we should discuss 'militant theists' ... just to be fair, hahaha.
AN ATHEIST: A PERSON WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN A GOD OR GODS ... END OF STORY ... the end of the religion of atheism ... and end of the line. Don’t even begin to tell me I haven’t repeated this several times already.
What comes after atheism is decided (it’s only a decision for sure) … is the only thing left, silly girl ... religion free secularism or what you seem to call militant atheistic (whatever). Now the only way my personally wanting to live a free life can possibly be conceived as some militancy towards you or the RCC is because that is the way you guys want it. You guys are trying to break into the PSS through back channels and via dirty politics where you (and you alone) desire to pollute reason and discredit science. You are the ones trying to rewrite the history of the universe and everything in it. You are the ones who have condemned all of mankind for the mere audacity of not believing your BS to within a gnat’s ass as ordered. Yours is the party of hate … as in everything un-Catholic … the choice was always yours to make, so get a grip and suck it up.
Concern #1: The RCC has been pushing people around for thousands of years ... I hope they whip you bigoted church at every turn, sorry but paybacks are just plain hell on earth.
Concern #2: You have to talk about ‘the modern atheist’ because there are no old ones, hahaha. The term wasn’t even used until the 18th centure, go figure. Are people just supposed to stop being and acting like people because they don’t believe whatever you do? Have nothing to do with society … to become hermits on the hide, hahaha. Or do you think it more likely they will just get on with their now merry lives. The rest is just mumbo-jumbo.
Concern #3: You are just plain crazy on this one. All I will say here is … bye-bye RCC, RIP. The intelligence party is continuing and you are not invited.
Bill Maher is a good example of a militant atheist who has repeatedly said things such as he believes all people with strong faith-based beliefs and practices are "mentally ill" and suggested that it should be acceptable to remove their children from them if they zealously teach their beliefs as parents to them. Now imagine if I suggested that "remedy" atheism.
That sort of concerns me as an American--Christianity completely aside.
Hitchens and some other atheists had/have even proposed creating a "new society" that is religious free and instead has "common ideals" that are celebrated as an alternative to religion.
That worked out really well for Lenin, Mao and Robespierre. Gosh, we should let guys like that run things again.
You can not have a free and equal society when a minority of opinion demands the removal and criminalization of the majority.
Then you'd be a biggot like they are. It all comes back to that chart again...
Its not which side of the theist line you fall on that matters, its the "gnostic" (or to be more accurate to replace it with dogmatic) side that seems to determine when man will do terrible things to his fellow man. Everyone's faith (or lack of) has had morally repulsive things done in the name of it, thus ideology does not matter. Its only when people begin to get dogmatic enough that they think that their ideology justifies them to impose that ideology on others when conflict and problems arise.
He's a comedian above all else. Very much in the style of Carlin and Bruce. He's no different from any number of TV and radio personalities including televangelists who stir up controversy to gain an audience in order to make a living. Man up and stop whining. If you don't like something ignore it.
Hitchens actually believed that the concept of a supreme being (God) is a totalitarian belief that destroys individual freedom. How you equate his belief to that of totalitarian leaders is mind boggling. Another example of how you lack any understanding of the subject matter at hand.
Thank you! May I have another? Right on time.
These troll cookies are tasty!
@Goa--that's exactly the point. It doesn't matter if it's theist, athiest or religious--human beings do human things. Nobody owns the whole business. They all fail.
Corrupt popes were bad people. Communist and fascist dictators were too. Power--and the lust for it--is the problem.
That's why you need a free, plural society that is mutually consenting to being tolerant. I've never asked or suggested that any atheist or non-Christian ever have their rights taken away or for their freedom to be restricted.
It really doesn't matter what stand we take or where we place our ambitions ... what we say here reflects only our personal understanding and opinions, regardless of the source of them. Religion is little more than an absolute control system that has been built through the years to control the minds and the pocketbooks of their prey ... all of humanity. Faith in a higher being is an individual thing and as such should be appreciated by all (wishful thinking I am afraid), but if your faith is based on the corrupt works of the RCC (their specific holy of holies), then you are a Catholic at heart regardless of whether you think otherwise or not.
So if you utilize their bible to factionalize your god for you ... well what can you say? It seems to me that you are trying to tell us that those dastardly Catholics sure had it right in the beginning but then they blew it ... as if you are more knowledgeable about their own propaganda than the rightful owners are. I do not understand this perspective in the least? The bible is true ... or it is not ... it is that simple … isn’t it. And without this bible ... where does that place yours or any other Christian’s religious views? So you guys have no options here IMO … I am just a bit curious why many feel empowered to use the bible in only a selective manor … throw this one out … like this one … etc. I can only view this as self-defeating from any Christian perspective that is based on the bible. If you believe in god and that the bible is the word of god … then you do not have the authority to do this … except personally … and then what does that make you in the eyes of the church world? An atheist hahaha!!! I as an actual atheist am not religiously allowed to pick and choose … as a Christian, what gives you excuse to do so?
People often assert that Atheism is a religion, which of course it isn't. Saying that atheism is a religion is rather like saying 'not' collecting stamps is a 'hobby'. Atheists are often associated with scientific thinking and Critical thinking, while religions demand belief without supporting empirical evidence. Scientists have shown how scientific thinking leads to atheism but besides brainwashing, they are clueless as to what leads one to theism.
I'm sure you will agree that an Atheist is a person who does not believe in the One True Transcendent God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob become immanent in the God-Man Jesus the Christ.
However, the gods of Atheism are plenty. For some Atheists, humanity becomes god, for others, materialistic science becomes god ....
No need to redefine.
Militant Atheists are very seriously pushing, both behind the scene and up front in our face, a philosophico-political system which is expressly atheistic.
They want a civilization without God. Militant Atheists' main goal is to remove Almighty God and every vestige of authentic Christianity from all institutions and public life.
Militant Atheism is an attack against religion, particularly authentic Christianity.
Yes he is. Others are Richard Dawkins, Madalyn Murray O'Hair and Michael Newdow. All actively working attacking the CC and all vestiges of Christianity.
You missed the point of my post completely. That point was that ideology is completely irrelevant. If at any point you impose a belief (especially ones that have no worldly influence) on someone else, you've crossed a line.
I've heard this argument plenty of times, and I won't say it doesn't have relevance in a few particular cases. But I think this is highly misleading of most atheists. You after all believe that humanity and the material worlds exists, atheists simply do not believe in anything else. But that does not mean they automatically think that humanity or the material world is any more important than you do.
Bill Maher is an example of a comic who likes his chosen 'profession'. Pay all the attention to him you like but why in the world do you pick such jewels and then try to manipulate them to support some cause but their own? Always the other guys picking on the largest religious organization on the planet ... the pore RCC known worldwide for their generosity, concern for their fellow believers man and their compassion and tolerance of believers others ... hahaha ... hehehe. Anyone with rational thoughts has some use for religion or their barbaric practices ... why? There is nothing militant about standing for ones beliefs, that is a given ... the militancy comes in when you force yourselves and your views on other people ... something the RCC is a master at. Do you guys actually teach evolution in your private schools I wonder? Or have you denied your own children another of modern society’s wonderments in science … all the while trying to infiltrate the public schools with your bigotry and hatred. Don’t try to hide behind the generic word 'religion' here ... you ALWAYS mean Catholicism, period … so why don’t you just admit it. Catholicism has nothing to do with worldwide religion or peoples whatsoever … but everything to do with the RCC and their selfish and conceded narcissistic ambitions.
In #231, Sinperium correctly equated Hitchen's Atheistic beliefs and desire for an Atheistic society with Lenin's, Mao's and Robespierre.
Hitchens was wrong and easily dismissed because totalitarian belief as is Communism is the very opposite of the advocacy of human freedom, within the limit of Divine Law, which the CC has proclaimed thoughout the Christian ages. Such freedom stems from the principles of natural rights, unalienable rights, with which the CC holds man to be endowed by his Creator.
This principle, echoed in our Declaration of Independence, when strictly followed, leads to "government of the people, by the people", and not to "totalitarianism" such as dominated the Soviet Union since 1917 under Lenin, Stalin and as presently dominates China, North Korea, N. Vietnam and Cuba.
Furthermore, as noted in dictionaries, the term "totalitarian" is of political rather than of religious significance.
Unfortunately you just proved Hitchen's to be correct by stating "within the limits of Divine Law". That is exactly what he is talking about. The concept of "Divine Law" takes away certain freedoms from the individual.
Smoothseas; It goes beyond that. Hitchens stated that the concept of a supreme being also empowered such people to do and say anything in the name of such power … without the need to justify anything to anyone, even themselves … much as it still is today. So it is a two sided sword; the loss of their individuality and the authority to do anything they desire. This sounds pretty damn totalitarian to me, for sure.
@Boobz...I'm pretty stunned actually. You go an a rampage that all people religious are total asses, your partner comes on with an occasional cynical smartass put down--and I'm a troll?
This thread wasn't, "Listen to atheists rant about how bad Christians suck."
You make off-hand comments with your facts wrong, misspeak yourself and make broad statements out of resentment and if you don't get an affirmative reply, "it's trolling".
Trolling is more like when you weren't in the conversation to start and then jump in to make a sardonic and personally insulting comment to "get your score up".
Go back and read everything you have posted, insert "atheist" where it says "religious", "Christian" or "RCC" and tell me how you would respond. Simply getting contradicted or confronted with an angle you don't want to examine gets you in a tiff. I don't think you could handle the reversed position at all.
It's plain and simple--you're here to rant.
That one is fairly obvious. I think I learned that concept as a kid, probably while I was sitting in church.
He simply needs to do some research on Hitchens, Mao, and Lenin to see why putting them in the same boat doesn't hold water.
I think you guys have an issue with associative thinking.
I'm not calling Hitchens Mao or Mao Hitchens or anything else. I'm pointing out that every person who thought they could bring about an "age of enlightenment" by creating an organization to rise up to empower it brought instead the opposite--no matter how well intended they were.
There's an inherent problem with the approach of making people think like you and believing that your ideas are so correct that you're entitled to.
Atheists aren't going to save the world by superior thinking. Many are following the exact same sort of thinking of some of the examples I gave--just dressed in a different philosophy.
So far what I primarily get from you guys is, "Once stupid people like you religious nutjobs are removed, smart people like us can make the world right.".
There's quite a bit of hubris there.
Sigh, same old, same old here i see....
Denying human nature will get you no where.
Dont try to reason Sinperium, their "logic" blinds them to the obvious.
BoobzTwo obviously is closed minded. No amount of "proof" will work, because she will simply disregard/explain/ignore it.
Atheism is the absence of religion/god. Just like darkness is the absence of light.
And in my opinion... the absence of light will get oneself confused and hurt in the long run...
Without darkness there can be no light. Sight works by contrast, pick whatever color you wish, if that is all you see you can make out nothing. Opinions are the same way. Everyone has an opinion, beliefs; but the type does not really matter. If you cannot even let yourself see why others believe as they do, then you truly see nothing at all. Just the blinding light of your own beliefs. And even once the universe ends if your beliefs turn out to be right, you still have nothing to be proud of. If you're of the believers, then you failed the test of your existence. And if you're not, you failed to see anything during the one glimpse of the universe given to you by astronomical chance.
I do not believe in god, but I know that faith and perhaps even religion of itself is no threat. It is dogmatism, the self inflicted blindness to the ways of thinking of fellow human beings, that is threatening. Its practitioners cannot even see grey, let alone color. If peace on Earth is truly desired by people of all faiths and lack there of, we must stop caring about the faith of others, and instead about the excessive strength of our fellow believers convictions. Then... maybe... we may have a chance.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
