War of Magic: v1.3
With Summer here it is time to get v1.3 of War of Magic out the door and start thinking about v1.4. I had to push some of the things I wanted to do in v1.3 (notably rewriting the tactical AI) into v1.4 as I ended up spending a lot more time than anticipating improving the overall “feel” of the game.
With v1.2F, I tweaked the economics further and made a few AI changes that I think should result in greater challenge as well as a tighter experience. Overall, I’m feeling much better about how the game plays even if I’m not happy with other parts of the game (and I’ve yet to make a game I’m happy with but that’s a different topic).
Starting this month and into the Fall I’ll be focusing my efforts on the AI for Fallen Enchantress. So it’ll be what I learn in Fallen Enchantress that goes into v1.4.
Fallen Enchantress will be the biggest challenge of my AI career as I believe (perhaps incorrectly as I’m biased) the ability of the AI monsters and AI players to make intelligent use of their special abilities in battle will be crucial to the overall enjoyment of the game. So a great deal of my time will be spent having the AI learn to not just cast spells but to treat their abilities and magical powers as a cohesive whole – to build micro strategies with them.
In all likelihood, the first beta of Fallen Enchantress will hit before War of Magic v1.4 goes into beta so we’ll have a better idea where players want me to focus my efforts at that point since virtually everyone who got War of Magic will be getting Fallen Enchantress for free anyway.
The Lore of the World
War of Magic didn’t have the opportunity to express the considerable lore of the world. There are so many different creatures and types of beings in the world of Elemental that we are hoping will start to be shown in Fallen Enchantress.
If you’re read the book, Elemental: Destiny's Embers, you get an idea of some of the complex politics of the world, particularly amongst the Kingdoms of Men. Fallen Enchantress will let us explore the complexities of the Empires of the so-called “Fallen” as well as give players a better understanding of the much harsher conditions that exist in the eastern lands where the Fallen survive.
In War of Magic, the maps took place in the west where the lands were barren and brigands and darklings may have roamed the landscape. But the west was a paradise compared to what the Fallen were dealing with in the East.
I was already excited about the prospects of FE, but now you go on to claim it may be the best the studio has produced to date? That is all I needed to hear. It is time to devote all resources to getting FE out to beta so we can all see what the fuss is all about.
EDIT: Anyway you can give a time frame on when the FE beta may be released? This month....next month..??
No...the month after that.
I don't think anyone can really have a valid opinion about whether or not to drop plans on EWoM AI time. That is, until we get a beta of FE for comparison. So after the beta is released lets start a poll. Feedback is key to success. This is not new information, but it is emphasized. I really do hope that the editing tools and products thereof, which I have spent hours on waiting for a playable game, are compatible with FE on some level. Will maps translate well? Will tiles?
Now that you say the game is so different, I am wondering how different. Is moddability going to be equal, better, or will there be peons at Stardock waiting for me to command changes?
I rule with an iron fist, but its well polished and quite reasonable at times.
Well my one, true concern here is that I'm starting to see history repeat itself.
Very shortly after EWOM got released I -personally at least - realized that the game was, for the most part, a failure, and that it was beyond fixing. Brad wanted to fix it anyway and I can understand that, on a human level, but logically... well, very few are even playing it at all at this point, and even in these forums we witnessed people say that they held hopes in fixes and updates to "magically" make the game fun, until they had to finally give up and realize it was a lost cause. To me - painful as it may sound - the wise, humble course of action would be to accept what happened, let it go and move on. Instead, we see the poor, lifeless horse getting beaten still. Not good.
Worse yet, some of the new fixes (es: the HPs issue) managed to appear even more baffling to the (sparse) audience than some of the features of the originally released game (you just hear less complaints because fewer people are here to make them). This suggests to me that the development cycle still has serious unsolved issues and work keeps progressing a tad aimlessly. Not good.
On top of that, we get the announcement that FE is going to be the "best ever" release by Stardock, which is exactly the same announcement made in regard of EWOM. Not good.
I don't mean to sound as the Prophet of Doom. I do believe that Stardock needs to be aware of its limits if it wants to deliver. You don't have to convince me: after all, I've already paid for a game and I don't have to buy the next one. You have to convince new players, people who heard less than exciting things about Elemental and decided to steer well away from it. Your next game will possibly get even less than fair reviews, since people will be overly cautious and "suspicious" about it. So I say if you want it to succeed you have to focus on that with all the available resources and with the assumption that FE, too, has problably tons of serious, underlying issues that need to be spotted yet and addressed before release, since customers won't forgive another day-one misfire and most certainly won't have the patience to wait for "upcoming" (and constantly delayed) fixes to come and save the day. Hope you read it as a constructive post because that's what it is, and that's the way I work
Suggestion: Hire Another (or 2 more!!) AI Programmers
Okay, it's been almost a year and the tactical AI is still as dumb as rocks? Obviously this plan of waiting on you to figure out how to code AI into the game isn't working. Is there any way at all you could hire any additional AI programmers so that a) the game gets challenging, therefore interesting all the stress and workload isn't on you.
This may seem like a swipe at you, but it's not. What is currently happening is not working. I understand the AI might be your baby, and that you may have a certain pride towards it, but great leaders know when to get help. Be a great leader. Use some of that Gamestop money you got and for the love of Kai and Allah, hire another programmer. It's a recession, i'm sure you'd get resumes from all over.
Also, I say this as a schmuck who preordered Elemental: WOM. Just dump the support for it and go Full Power in FE. The only people who still play Elemental are those that pre-ordered or got in early enough to get FE for free. I'd really suggest you let your pride go, once again, and just get as much woman/manpower (and AI programmers, because this is what makes and breaks strategy games) into FE because if this bombs, I feel like you'll be stuck in Molyneux mode forever.
I feel like you need a reality check from people that aren't dedicated fanboys that worship your every move, Frogboy. I'm doing this because I love you and because I want this game to work because I enjoy your company and its products.
i agree on this... if doing the ai solo might prove the biggest challenge to you to date you might really want to get extra help so it doesnt royally flop. i mean if stardock wants to attract the rest of the gamers who didnt purchase WOM to begin with you need to raelly make sure FE shines like a becon of a worthy successor to MOM/FFH/AOW.
and what looks to me that will be one of the main things that still needs to be addressed for FE with be a SOLID AI. and VERY VERY importantly which has been already mentioned here is the game needs badly FACTION/RACES graphical uniqueness. i too have had WOM since the get go and honestly i cant stand all the different shades of humans. no visual uniqueness with all the races sucks out alot of fun. the game needs a good 2 poeple making all factions with their own flavor both graphically and sound effect wise and watever else can be done.
One of the issues I didn't dare to address so... "directly". Thanx for breaking the ice
While some of the things we heard about FE sure sound promising, under the surface I sense the same "daydreaming" approach that ruined EWOM. We'll do this! We'll do that! Customers all over the world are used to promises of all kinds, and I still remember an enlightening sentence written by one of EWOM's developers on these very forums: "feature xxxxx has been moved to modding." (!!!!?!?!?). I'd hate to see that happening again with FE, and I'm sure it would be disastrous for Stardock if it *did* happen again.
So I'll give my suggestion once again and then I'll shut up for good: stop wasting time with EWOM, put all the available resources into FE's development and do not underestimate the work that needs to be done for it. And as the previous posters pointed out: if you expect the AI to be difficult to code, put someone on it now, full-time. And now back to my lurking-mode, waiting to see how this whole thing unfolds...
Additional programmers do not translate directly into increased productivity. This is because it adds the complication of having to coordinate to ensure all the code works together. I think the best number of full time AI programmers (Brad only works on it when his schedule allows) would be 2, one for TC and one for the Strategic AI. They already have one person besides Brad.
Just a note to say that I deeply appreciate the continuing efforts that Stardock has made to improve EWOM and the promise to give a free copy of FE to purchasers of EWOM. Most other companies would just cut their losses and run.
That said, I still find EWOM to be boring. I find the game too predicatable, the AI is deeply flawed (and predicatable), magic is too limited, tactical battles are a cakewalk and the game lacks the excitement, backstory flavor, racial differences, and immersive background that would make it a star.
It never became that strategic fantasy in an RPG world that I was hoping to see.
Despite that, I am deeply looking forward to FE.
If development does continue on EWOM I would suggest focusing the next upgrade on one element of the game that would have a dramatic impact on game play. Be it 1) the fog of war, 2) less predictable strategic AI, 3) tactical AI & new tactical spells, 3) new quests that impact the campaign (by aiding your enemies if they are not completed by date x), 5) improving champions, 6) differentiating one or two the various fractions and races while adding backstory & flavor to the game.
Example 01 - Less Predictable Strategic AI
In 1.2f the AI sovereigns follow the same strategy and none focus on archery or magic.
Summary: Sovereign AIs have a chance to select different strategies for each game. This would make the game less predicatable as you might be facing AI that specialize in an Archery, Magic or Melee combat strategy. In two to three weeks you could release an update that implements this feature (allowing one week for specifications, one week for code writing and another week for playtesting) if you limit this to a selection of 3 to 4 strategies.
Altar (Altar strategy variable = AS with a randomly selected value of 1 to 100, the value of this variable determines which research and build strategy the AI will follow)----- Archer Strategy - 30% per game (01-30)----- Champion & Magic Armor Strategy - 20% per game (31-50)----- Magic Strategy - 30% per game (51-80)----- Melee Strategy - 20% per game (81-100)
Trogs (Trog strategy variable = TS with a randomly selected value of 1 to 100) (Physically strong Trogs favor melee combat)------ Archer Strategy - 10% per game (01-10)------ Melee Strategy - 90% per game (11-100)
Wraiths (Wraith strategy variable = WS with a randomly selected value of 1 to 100)------ Champion and Magic Armor Strategy - 30% per game (01-30)------ Magic Strategy - 40% per game (31-70)------ Melee Strategy - 30% per game (71-100)
Obviously what they're doing now isn't working. I'm trying to help them. Is it really that hard to coordinate with people on how to code? The company I work for does it all the time.
Also there are many games that have multiple AI coders. To imply that just what they're doing now is optimal is just silly and pure fanboyism.
Also the fact that there have only been 3 posts in this thread since I made my last post should tell you something. Whatever they're doing now ain't working. If you're going to put all your eggs into one basket, make sure its the best goddamned eggs ever laid.
I thought the crew was on an extended July 4th holiday..swilly me.
I'm sure they're working on things -- even on weekends.
Regarding the eggs.... insurance. Money can still be made when losses are incurred. In fact, that is the fundamental mechanism of generation of wealth: debt.
...got quacking duck?
-.-
I said it before and will say it again if they stopped updating and working on wom I will not only be pissed that I spent 40 bucks on a game that is not complete and will also be be dissappointed that stardock left wom to wither and die,
please stardock continue working on wom, the game is very different from when it first came out dont give up !
Mmh, just to know, the F version was released on the 7 july we are nearly 3 weeks after and there is no informations on how the work goes. I mean could we know what's going on ? Are there big problems that needs time to be fixed ? Does the team that has the patching work is unavailable ?
I saw the post of Brad saying he will have no more time to work on WoM because of FE and so on... Well that's not a problem to me but it could be good to at least not wast the work that has been done on the 1.3 patch by abandoning it. So if there is a little bit yet to be done it would be good to do it and release the patch quickly... Even if it's the last for WoM.
Does this mean that Stardock has the staff in place to develope a world class 3rd person RPG based on the world of Elemental? I think so.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
