War of Magic: v1.3
With Summer here it is time to get v1.3 of War of Magic out the door and start thinking about v1.4. I had to push some of the things I wanted to do in v1.3 (notably rewriting the tactical AI) into v1.4 as I ended up spending a lot more time than anticipating improving the overall “feel” of the game.
With v1.2F, I tweaked the economics further and made a few AI changes that I think should result in greater challenge as well as a tighter experience. Overall, I’m feeling much better about how the game plays even if I’m not happy with other parts of the game (and I’ve yet to make a game I’m happy with but that’s a different topic).
Starting this month and into the Fall I’ll be focusing my efforts on the AI for Fallen Enchantress. So it’ll be what I learn in Fallen Enchantress that goes into v1.4.
Fallen Enchantress will be the biggest challenge of my AI career as I believe (perhaps incorrectly as I’m biased) the ability of the AI monsters and AI players to make intelligent use of their special abilities in battle will be crucial to the overall enjoyment of the game. So a great deal of my time will be spent having the AI learn to not just cast spells but to treat their abilities and magical powers as a cohesive whole – to build micro strategies with them.
In all likelihood, the first beta of Fallen Enchantress will hit before War of Magic v1.4 goes into beta so we’ll have a better idea where players want me to focus my efforts at that point since virtually everyone who got War of Magic will be getting Fallen Enchantress for free anyway.
The Lore of the World
War of Magic didn’t have the opportunity to express the considerable lore of the world. There are so many different creatures and types of beings in the world of Elemental that we are hoping will start to be shown in Fallen Enchantress.
If you’re read the book, Elemental: Destiny's Embers, you get an idea of some of the complex politics of the world, particularly amongst the Kingdoms of Men. Fallen Enchantress will let us explore the complexities of the Empires of the so-called “Fallen” as well as give players a better understanding of the much harsher conditions that exist in the eastern lands where the Fallen survive.
In War of Magic, the maps took place in the west where the lands were barren and brigands and darklings may have roamed the landscape. But the west was a paradise compared to what the Fallen were dealing with in the East.
I vote yes for 1.4. Please put the "Magic" back in Elemental:War of Magic with v1.4.
Of course, don't let that stop you from pre-tweaking the spells in 1.3.
To be compared with:
Seems clear to me that they need people to work on the AI now!
No, actually Quote #2 is just an example of why Derek was added to the team. By making sure that they don't put features in the game that they won't have time to implement correctly they'll hopefully avoid the problems that EWOM had at launch. Pretty sure Brad has said before that he doesn't work on AI until all features AI will use have been implemented.
I continue to work on War of Magic because I enjoy it.
But the thing I think some people may not be seeing -- and indeed, *I* didn't see -- is just how much better FE is going to be than WOM was. When I started work on the v1.3 feature set, my expectations for FE were considerably lower. I thought FE would address the weaknesses of WOM and take the game in a different direction.
But what FE has done instead is make me realize that FE is simply at a different level. I.e. it's not just a matter of being different or "funner" but it is like comparing a hobbyist effort to a commercial effort.
I know I'm not explaining it well but even those of you who have played Galactic Civilizations or enjoy games like Space Empires V Dominion 3 understand that the production values of those games are at a different level than say a Civilization V or a Starcraft.
The problem I'm having at this stage is that I originally anticipated Fallen Enchantress as being a game with its own game mechanics that wouldn't be released with the kinds of gameplay flaws that WOM had but still ultimately a game that was of the same production values as our other titles (Sins, GalCiv, WOM, etc.). But Fallen Enchantress is a noticeable step up from WOM in production values which is taking a lot of the wind out of my desire to work on WOM.
So the reason I worked on WOM to this point is because I enjoyed it. I believe -- and continue to believe- - that WOM can become a pretty awesome game by addressing the kinds of things we've all mutually discussed. And while I still believe that, there's no scenario where I can make WOM reach the level of FE because FE has so much more talent behind it.
Back when WOM came out and sucked, we eliminated our second games team at the time. SOme people got laid off and the rest were put onto FE. So the staffing on FE is significantly larger than the staffing was on WOM which has resulted in a game with much higher production values than anything I've seen our studio produce.
The bottom line being, I won't really put too much effort into a v1.4 until I see what the community wants me to put my time into after the first FE beta comes out. If people prefer FE's potential to WOM's potential (or even if it's a tie) then it makes more sense to focus on that.
My view is that WOM v1.3 is certainly a respectable game. It'll never be a classic though in its current state but I would be satisfied with how a new player to it would feel about the game overall.
Anyway, as this comment demonstrates, my thoughts on WOM updates are all over the place.
The more time I can spend on FE though the better. I only got 3 months (4 with the post release updates) worth of hours on WOM. I got about 6 months on GalCiv 2 (including expansion packs). It's looking like I might be about to get a solid 4 months on FE with almost all the work on AI which would be unprecedented for me (except for the OS/2 version of GalCiv whose AIs were vastly better than GalCiv I/II on Windows but that's another story).
Keep working on WoM as long as you can!
Your efforts are much appreciated.
Thanks for the update Brad.
If any of the reason you are working on WoM is because you feel you need to keep your word to us (delivering two great games) - then I for one absolve you of any such need or responsibility - at least from my perspective. At this stage if your involvement with WoM is going to mean the FE will be less than it could be then please shift your focus. As you say in your post, FE was anticipated to be much less than it currently is. Sounds like that is where the focus needs to be now.
edit:
Oh - but please fix the tactical battle numbers first.
Isn't that rather the heart of the matter? If FE is shaping up to be that much better, then significant time going into it will result in a stronger AI which will make it even that much better still. Taking time away from it to work on something else that you know can't possibly reach FE's level is a net negative: you lower the time put into FE's AI and you don't have something better then FE to show for it.
It sounds like there's a chance with FE to put out a real hit. It only makes sense to focus on making that as good as it can possibly be and not focus on something that can't possibly catch up no matter what you do.
On the other hand nothing is hurt if the people working on E:WoM are still waiting for other parts of E:FE to be finished before they can work on it (which is the case with AI).
In the Stardock studios there is the main studio area - but in the corner is a fort made out of cardboard boxes, office chairs, books and other stationery items. A flag (a piece of paper stuck on a broom handle) has the words emblazoned "War of Magic" in green highlighter pen. On the door of the fort is written "No Girlz or Derek allowed!". From behind this bastion of defiance lurks Frogboy - periodically peering over the cardboard battlements and flicking paper clips at the team working on Fallen Enchantress.
That's true, and 1.3 falls into that. Since it looks like FE beta (the version that will be stable enough to get AI work) is coming out before 1.4, it does preclude working on 1.4 until the FE AI is mopping the floor with players.
I don't think that's the case anymore - there was another post somewhere from Froggy, where he said that he'll be working on FE first (this month!) then going back to WOM. Which while cool (going back, that is), may not be the best way to leverage his time.
Hi Brad, please don't start rumors. Take some videos around the office when the PR/Marketing/Legal dept is not around or it didn't happen.
Looking forward to FE.......BUT please for the love of god give the different races some flavor. My single biggest complaint with EWOM; besides turn 200 crashing every game, is that the races are boring as hell. Seriously...differentiate them based on animations and traits. Not sure why you guys are hell bent on making them all human-esque but it isn't working. It's been brought up numerous times now and a fairly common complaint. Obviously if your fans hate it theres changes to be made.
The game isn't all about mechanics and AI. It's about the immersion and fun of the game. Human races with slight skins changes = non-immersive. I think majority of folks are looking for a high fantasy feel and we just haven't been given that.
I've been a supporter and advocate of this game from day one. I ran out and picked up the game at Best Buy on launch day. Several of my non-tradiontal 4x fans picked up the game and loathed it; based on my initial feedback...they all had the same complaint........."wow. all the races look alike and play identical. This is boring and broken."
I don't mean to be negative; as FE looks fantastic, but you are ruining a great opportunity with forgettable lore and races. (FE prove me wrong). I am by no means a 4x expert; fairly newbie, and I find EWOM basics to work but doesn't flow well.
I have had EWOM since launch and logged maybe 35 hours since then....I've owned King's Bounty "The Legend" for less than 48hrs and already 9 hours played. A little immerssion goes a long way; even with lack of originality. =/
Come on Stardock I know you guys have it in you! Elemental has a great graphic style and initiative; just need to see it all come together!!! GalCiv2 made me a believer and I only played it due to EWOM's status at launch. I've spent alot of time playing GalCiv2 and it shows why I still login to this site to check in on Elemental! Stardock has talent....let's do it!
***Coffee fix has worn off. Fallen FTW
Great input into your upcoming plans, chief. I definitely like the idea of the AI using "mini-strategies". Such an example would be to cast a mass freezing spell that turns a group of targets into ice and then shattering them with a earthquake type spell. Little things like that, the AI using spell combos and planing for them and setting them up, would be a great step in the right direction for that I believe.
Something I've noticed playing the base version of Elemental is that as a channeler I don't start with a basic, small damage, ranged spell attack (think "magic missile" from D&D or "flame arrow" from old school UO). Something that does only 1, 2, or 3 points of damage for a relatively small casting cost. Without early access to something like this I often get over-run by even simple wandering bandits while trying to start out and found the beginnings of my empire. Hopefully something like this won't be overlooked in the expansion.
As always, keep up the great work.
Agreed. Nothing differentiates the races - not appearance, not cities, not spells, not backstory, not weapons or armor, not battle tactics and not conversations.
Example: Wraith led armies could have the option to attack at night. This would reduce the range of all attacks (melee and magic) to 2 tiles.
Example: Alterians could have the option to build elevated defensive towers equipped with archers to protect their cities. These towers keep shooting until either 1) all ground forces are destroyed, 2) the towers are destroyed by catapults, battering rams or magic the archers atop the towers are slain with ranged attacks (as they cannot be attacked by melee weapons since they are elevated).
Though it would not get into EWOM at this late stage I would have liked to see;
a. Lizardmen Race - a race of lizardmen, much like the Lizardmen race in warhammer that can build armies of lizardmen and dinosaurs.
b. Insectmen Race - a race of intelligent humanoid insects that can build armies with giant bettles and can ride giant worms; aka Dune. Insectment that reside in giant hive cities, that the humanoid races can't rule, but only raze.
c. Wraiths be a race that sees itself as the master of darkness and the undead, that prefers to fight in the darkness that limits the usefulness of ranged attacks.
d. Alterians focused on ranged attack magic and archery with cities of hire spires and elevated defensive positions from which archers can fire upon those attacking their cities.
The races are a massive problem but are not easy to fix. I'm currently playing a game where I'm at war against both Kraxis and Magmar (or what-ever they are called). My armies march through the fallen lands and I don't know which of the two I'm fighting because they are both exactly the same. None of the battles have been memorable. None of the interaction with them has had any flavour. The game is still currently more about 'process' than 'immersion' and that aspect can't be good for replayablity.
I still remember specific games I've played of Age of Wonders years ago where a bunch of Orcs march down from a mountain pass, or even just lowly zephyr birds flying across water to take resources, or massive sieges. There is none of that in World of Magic. But unless Fallen Enchantress is addressing this in a meaningful way then don't hold your breath.
And by meaningful way I mean not just adding a unit here or there to specific races, but really changing the look and feel of all races.
One really really easy adjustment they could make to help the races would be to add ambient sounds to specific races. I'm surprised at how little attention has been given to this aspect of the game. Whether it is ethereal type sounds for wraiths or drums for trogs it would add enormously to the experience. Sound in WoM has not just been put in the back seat - it has entirely missed the bus.
Age of Wonders
"Races, as well as units not belonging to any specific race, such as dragons and giants, have a certain alignment, which can be good, neutral, or evil. According to their alignment and certain other factors, cities and independent units of one race can be friendly or hostile towards another race.
This can manifest itself in different ways; for example, an orc city is not likely to surrender to the elves, and if conquered, may revolt unless there is a strong military presence in it to oppress the population.
Units of hostile races forced to fight alongside each other in a single group will have lower morale, and are more likely to desert.
Race relations can be improved by acts of goodwill towards other races, such as upgrading their cities, or hampered by razing, looting, or migrating cities belonging to that race. Diplomacy can also affect this and even an alliance with one race might affect the relation of another race. There are also several spells which have a global effect on race relations."
Why is this version not available to me?
You need to allow Impulse to show 'pre-release versions'. With Impulse browser open, click the blue drop-down button located on top-left. Put a check-mark in the box next to 'show prerelease versions'.
-.-
Is anyone else experiencing a major hang-up during the Elemental loading page? The page with the dragon just before the intro video.
It freezes so bad that CTL+ALT+DEL is ignored and I ultimately have to do a hard reboot.
I've encountered this problem more times than what I'd like to admit, but only after updating game to "F" version.
@ Aeligos Thank you very much you're awesome.
Depending on how the existing music is encoded implementation could be done by accentuating a given instrument type on the existing track. Or an additional instrument track could kick in. Say like the trogs either have more prominent drums in the original track (louder) or anouther track kicks in on anouther sound channel to compliment the existing music. On the aspect of music some variation of styles could also work. Say the original track goes thrue an instrumental filter changing some or all of the instruments to anouther type (like wood wind to guitar, or piano to bass). You could change tempo (play speed) for a difference in feel. I'd just listened yesterday to a 50% Bloody Tears (castlevania) track for example that while recognizable sounded more mellow (it was also played played on piano). In a similar vein you could also try different music styles of the same piece. Playing the original track as heavy metal, jazz, country or chamber music for example. Granted some of the styles or changes might break with the expectations of music for a high fantasy game, but there would deffinitely be a difference. Sound can really set the mood, feel, or interpretation a player has of a faction just like it does for movies and characters.
On that note, is there a folder that music files can be dropped into to play as background music or a way to set an ingame playlist for a faction currently (it would be neat to do with the expanded factions for example). Hmm... I wonder if an axe could be skinned into an 'axe'.
I've got a suggestion for EWOM 1.4 (if you don't want to give it any more love):
Open source.
*puts down Age of Wonders for a sec* Did I hear that FE beta is soon? Great news, please move all WoM resources to FE development, I doubt anyone who is still sticking with this is looking forward to WoM patches more so than FE beta/release
Pleeeaaaaaaase
Only issue I have with 1.2F is the decrease in population growth with multiple cities and crippled economy as your # of cities increase. I don’t see the logic of this.
If you treat food and population as a global resource and the population growth as one too then how can you then a) only have local growth in cities with room remaining and assume if you have a large empire that the growth of it will slow?
For a) It would make sense to me that population would move out of full cities to others as each city fills up, you’d have a total population growth rate of X based on your current population and modified by your influx due to your prestige but then it would be dived up among all cities with open population (available housing) based on those cities relative size and prestige.
For population growth is only ever limited by lack of food, education/tech level or gov’t control. A large population will breed just as fast as a small one.
If you can adjust the income penalty and growth penalty I’d appreciate it.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
