*graphic courtesy of r_munch –thx!
Background
Back quite some time ago when we were talking about tournaments… WAAYYYYY back when I had that oh so very annoying thread about DG players – tier 1, tier 2 and those to be avoided (http://forums.demigodthegame.com/372184)…
… I had an idea. What if we had a tournament where every player was teamed up with every other player. This means, the tournament will really be about individual excellence. We mix and match teams. You don’t try to form team super perfect – you get an assigned teammate that changes each round. For every win, each player on the team gets 1 point. If you lose, you get nothing. We do this until we go through the combinations. The winner is the person with the most points as they were clearly the most effective on each team. In the event of a tie… well… I’ll figure something out. So, as you can see, this tournament is going to be structured VERY differently than our previous ones. If all is well with the brackets, you will play on the same team with every single person exactly 1 time.
The Brackets
Although it probably doesn’t sound all that challenging to pull off, we actually had quite a bit of difficulty coming up with a decent bracket that would enable us to have the tournament they way we wanted it. Thankfully, sledge was kind enough to help out and take the time to develop the brackets so I wouldn’t be doing all of the heavy lifting here. Please give him some karma if you think of it. At any rate, here’s a link to the brackets. Please take a look to help get a better understanding of how things will work. https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An02sqdF5v-EdG1hLTI1d3prLWpnWUpSRnNrbG9RMFE&hl=en_US&authkey=CLWZtdgO
Be aware that we will have EXACTLY 16 players in this tournament. In the event that we only have 15 players, we will add in 1 enhanced AI, etc
What is the schedule?
We should spend some time discussing this. Technically, we could start immediately. As you can see from the brackets, all you need is 3 other folks online at the same time to get a game in. I propose that we setup some specifics dates and times that will be considered game days. We can all show up during this time windows, pair up, and get some games in.
Payouts will be delivered by PayPal. If you don’t have a PayPal account, get one. If you can’t do that, then you will not receive a payout for the cash prizes if you win. If you do win, provide me with your PayPal addresses via pm on these forums and I will get you sorted in short order. If the needed PayPal email address has not been provided in 1 week, the prize money is forfeit. Cash is rendered via PayPal in US dollars. If you are from another country, the conversion is provided by PayPal. Any fee charged by PayPal will come directly out of your winnings (so its possible the winners could receive less than the listed payout).
Thankfully, we have not had a need to disqualify any teams yet during our tournaments, but here are the ground rules.
NT
I have always wanted to play with people like Renz in a tourney instead of playing vs them. MORE than likely ill have a good enough internet connection to actual play in a tourney sooner than later. So I am all for another tourney. Sign me UP
Cool, cow. But I would like to hear your idea on how we'd do it. Do folks get to pick their own dgs or does the opposing team get to? I think the opposing team picking will give us the best idea of the tier 1's (and create some crazy matchups), but I think folks will be against it some.
I am all for mixing shit up, let the other team pick! More often then naught I see this resulting in mirror matches of the weirdest degree like reg, da or sed, qot. I think these matches will be fun and put players out of their comfort zones. I would also prefer 2v2 matches because they are truly the most unforgiving in DG.
sounds fun
From my point of view Cow mentioned the most important and first to decide point here. I know I am still a new player and here and then I hear "oh he is still noob" or "you cannot judge that as you dont have enough games yet". In preparing for the tournament I watched every replay of every player I could get a hand on (thanks Zen_God) to watch them play. I learned a bunch, but as I alread mentioned in Zen_Gods replay thread I also saw some other very interesting things. All those players (ok most of them) that you guys consider as great are great when managing their DG. They are not flawless, which gave me some hope and also do mistakes but overall they are great players.
You can flame me all you want and I doubt I will completely explain this statement but I state that a lot of great players out there do not know the difference between a 2v2 and a 3v3. Most of you play a 3v3 strategy and do some major mistakes in 2v2. The difference from a strategy/teamplay point of view is huge between 2v2 and 3v3 and I am talking specific about cataract as on other maps this is another story.
So decide first if its going to be 2v2 or 3v3. In 3v3 I think you will find the player that is best in DG control. In 2v2 you will find the player that knows how to handle a DG great and understands the deeper strategy of an overall match. Both would be interesting to know.
Besides that to have every player play every possible combination of teams will be huge and impossible in my eyes. Imagine only 10 players sign up and you only play 2v2. Thats 9 teams everyone would have to play in. That alone would mean 45 games in the tournament. If you plan to play EVERY possible combination than its being on 9 different teams playing each combination of the other 8 players (28) which brings me to (hope I calced that correct) 1260 games total in the tournament. I guess everyone agrees that this will be hard to do.
I seriously like the idea though that the other team picks your DG. Not only because you see how good players peform with a DG they dont know that well but also because it shows how you manage to decide with your just assigned new team mate what the other team should play and your strategy behind the pick. That would add another skill level.
Sounds fun, probably we'll need to think quite a bit to make this work smoothly. Few things that i'd like to add on.
1- The players that join the tournament is bit problematic, if a player or players with significantly lower skill joins the tournament (aka noobish) it wouldn't be possible to win a game with those. So there should be be some sort of restriction, i don't if it would be ethic though.
2-I think when we came up with number of matches that is going to be played, in order to have variety we should allow each player to play a dg limited number of times. Let's say there will be 20 games played and there are 10 dgs. Each player can use a dg two times throughout the tournament.
3- Once again, to have more variety i recommend that we play different types of games. 1v1 and 2v2 on Prison(I think on cataract 1v1 and 2v2 doesn't work properly) and 3v3 on cataract.
These are what came to my mind so far, i am leaving US within two months so unless it ends up being after that, i'd most probably join.
Side note - perhaps the tournament would be invite only. Just a thought. Didn't have a chance to read some of the responses yet. Be back in a bit.
Now I'd prolly not be around at the right time for a tournament due to time difference between Austalia and USA, but I think to find the best playrt perhaps a more comprehensive score would benefit. I think take into account thier individual achievements similar to favor point scores.How about something like this:
In each game a win is 1 point, and an award is 1/2 point. (damage, flags, cit ups).
Perhaps if you're on the LOSING team and you score and award make it worth 1 point. (if you're winning it's easy to score awards because they snowball, but if you're on the losing team to get an award other than participant means you did well). Obvuiously participant award is worth nothing lol.
Each victory screen shot is kept and at the end of the tournament a primary count is made. (all win points and award points). THEN to decide the overall best player a SECONDARY count is made for some extra points.... what is the secondary score?
For each player 1 extra point is awarded for the following TOURNAMENT TOTALS (all scores added from every game)
Flags captured
Damage
Kills
Least deaths
Grunts
Structures destroyed
Assists
highest total favor score.
So to win the tournament you'll need to be on the winning side for most games. But if you lose a game you may still improve your score by game and tournament performance. - get as many flags as you can, get some damage in before the end, wipe out some creep waves, some games the difference between getting an award is only 1 kill, or 10 grunts, or 1 flag or 500 damage - so your effort should add up to a tournament total IMHO.
Juzt a thought,
OK - I'm off to bed in a min, but want to get this rolling. 1st - thx for all the feedback. I'd like for orcun to be able to participate, so I want you folks to start firing ideas fast and furious. Eg - we start playing this tourney within the next 1-2 weeks... and those of you that have been around know that we have to talk QUICKLY if that's going to happen. So, here's some stuff we need to bottom out.
Here's what is set RIGHT NOW (I'll update this list as we sort things out)
Onto a quick discussion on funding:
I'm personally going to put up some money for the prize. I'd like others to be willing to contribute. If no one else is willing, then I think I will charge like a $5 entry fee. If we make this a private tourney, then I can't pitch this to SD for funding support. I'm ok with that personally. Anyway, it would be cool to have some of you folks that care a bit to put in some sort of money - even if its only $10. I think we can have a lot of fun. The best part is that your overall score won't be based on your teammates if all goes well. It will all come down to how well you play, etc.
edit - and again - if you want to have any meaningful feedback towards the rules, you need to make AT LEAST 1 post here per day. I'll keep an eye on the thread, but I want this to happen if possible.
I am down for a 2v2 tourney.
Invite only and if they can't make it they can't make it.
Other team picks your characters.
Cataract is the map of choice.
People I would invite off the top of my head:
okey enough of me being silly anyone I missed I am sorry
If a lot of people join this tourney it will take a insanely huge amount of time for every single person to partner up with every other person and play games. I don't exactly know how that would work. I can see that you play one game with someone and than you swap partners and play again, repeat until all combos with those players are done and that would be a "round"
Invite only is ok, seriously. I would never think that I had a slight chance to win this anyways, so take me as an active advisor here. If you invite the list Zex just posted and want to have this in 1 or 2 weeks, then it will be a very short tournament considering what happened at the last tournament.
I strongly suggest to setup a tournament where playing time is not fixed. Create match-ups and give the participant the freedom to schedule those games on their own, otherwise you will have very low participants. But that means the tournament will go for a long time.
No matter what you will not find the best DG player with this format as "the best" is not defined anywhere. Depends on the viewpoint. Still I am really looking forward to a tournament like this only to read the excuses of players why they didnt do that well and what it was that made others win although they are (as everyone knows) much better than the player that won. Only for that I personally would love to see this happening. Also I would like to place a bet on who will win.
Oh and looking at the ego thats around I dont think that a cash prize is really neccessary. Just a thought.
heh. Indeed.
I have no problem inviting you sledge, I have never played with you so I can't really judge
Ive loved this idea for awhile. But we haven't really discussed the logistics of it yet which is the overwhelmingly hard part to figure out. Like sledge said to play every single combination of teams depending on the amount of people involved in the tournament would take forever. We either need to have this tourney last for awhile like a Pantheon Season, or we need to have way few team combo options and have people with certain handicaps so that we can match same-skilled players against each other based on those handicaps (totally nullifying the purpose of this tourney but logistically thats what would need to happen if we don't want this to be months long tournament ) this would make it so that everyone wouldn't have to play with every single player combination. But honestly Id rather the tourney last a couple months and have a lot of the player combinations played through. Unless we setup some bogus pt system that's not 100% accurate we would just have to randomly assign people to teams through luck of the draw.
Just posting some rambling thoughts if anyone has a better way to setup the tourney or can make a pretty algorithm to automatically spit out team combos based on games who does what in the preliminaries that would be great . On that note if we arent going to make this a really long tournament I would suggest preliminary games, then have a panel assign people certain handicaps based on team size and maybe dg selection.
Cow i like your list buttttt you have renz and rawwr on there 3+ times .
heh... yeah - I'm on there twice at least... hehe
OK - so I'm thinking of just changing the title for this thread/tourney.
Here's how i propose we organize things:
The overall goal will mostly be fun. As long as everyone is willing to put in a little effort, as long as 4 folks are online at the same time, people could start playing matches whenever. We could set a static time each night where folks should get online if they can. And again, all we need is 4 people and we'll split up teams. No one will be on the same team twice, so just mix n match.
We could extend the invites to whoever we wanted. Even if there is a weaker player in the mix, everyone would have to play with that person once, so that should offset things a bit, methinks.
The other angle, but unfortunately one that complicates things a little more - I'd like it if we could figure out a way to have the occasional challenge games. Eg I could challenge another team where we pick our dgs or teammates or whatever. I'm not sure how we could do that, though, as more games played potentially gives you an advantage on the ladder.
All of that said, I THINK the jee site could track stats for us and we could record the games there - we'd need a spreadsheet though to track who played with who, etc.
The ideal setup for me would be to just have games start weeknights at around 7PM EST. So, everyone shows up - someone hosts a LADDER game, and folks that are in the ladder can join. That should facilitate getting some games going quickly if people would make an effort to be around then.
Zex thanks for considering to invite me to the tourney but I was more referring to Pacov saying he wants the players that have been around for a long time to compete against each other and that is certainly not me.
I kinda agree with Jona that things havent really been discussed out. But on the other hand you can discuss for an eternity and will still not find a format where everyone will say "yeah this is the way to find out who the best player is". So no matter how you do it someone will always find the excuse that he is the best player it was just the wrong format and this is what I am most looking forward to. So define a way and go.
Last thing: Do not forget that this is not a community of US only players. 7PM EST is 1AM in central europe and like 8AM in Korea. There is a large group of russian players that are somewhere in the middle of that. From my only experience of the last tournament this is actually the biggest problem playing a tournament. Maybe do a pre-tournament per continent/timezone/region. Just a thought.
P.S. Zex forgot to list 3Nana
I get what you mean about the timezones - but I'm thinking setting up static days and times are good. So, there could certainly be a weekend time that is setup that is good. My take is that just to get things rolling, having folks that can be on and around 7PM EST would be a start.
3nana I don't think is technically a smurf of any of the good players around, I think he might/she might be one of the only legit ones?
I was just goofing with all the smurfs too I forgot defender__ sigh...
Yup - if I remember right, that was actually the only real nana. or was it 2 nana that was the only original one... those nana's all run together. 5nana was some other fellow that just changed his name up to be part of the crazy numbering system.
Changed the title in the OP.
Any objections or additional ideas? Otherwise, we can get cracking and start gauging interest. I'm actually fine with inviting several folks even if they are the "best of the best" or what have you. As long as everyone has to play with everyone, that should even out, methinks. That said, if we are picking the other teams dg, then that puts some folks at an EXTREME disadvantage. Would be nice if we could figure out a better way to do things with regards to that... we could go a best of 3 route (which would make things take a bit longer, of course) where each team chose the other team's dg, then a 2nd game where any dg is ok. Anyway, we do need to figure out who will be participating.
I think it should be only 1 game for each "grouping" of players
As far as the some people can only play 1 dg I think to be the "Best of the Best" you should be able to play each demigod to some degree. So in other words to bad so sad, you get to play something you suck at!
Oh man! I can't wait to see darkliath micro monks! Muahahahahahaha!
OK - K.I.S.S. seems appropriate here. We'll limit it to 1 game per teammate combo.
Everyone that participates will play the same number of games. I know that sounds pretty obvious, but inevitably, someone will start playing and then drop out, or have a hissy fit and vanish for a few days/weeks. We're not going to go through and remove wins from folks that earned them because someone didn't stay committed. Anyway, I'm not 100% sure how we will handle this, but if the tourney ends with me winning 10 games out of the 10 I played and someone else is in second place that only got in 8 total games, I wouldn't automatically be the winner. We'll figure out something when we have to, but I'm not a fan of taking a win from anyone. I'm also not a fan of penalizing someone that didn't have a chance to play the same number of games as someone else.
OK - so, who would like to participate?
IN:
Someone hit up dark on vent if you get a chance and give her an invite plz.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
