I must confess that I actually thought I hated this man and everything he was about until I started experiencing an overload of inaccurate and fictitious information the USG keeps pounding out and calling it the truth … so I decided to try an independent review of what I thought I knew and didn’t really. So I never watched or read anything Moore was involved with but I was more than willing to tell you how screwed up he was. So I rented the movie from Netflix and watched it … and I was amazed.
I have watched it twice now and I cannot find one shred of much information that is not factual or accurate. Beyond some idiosyncrasies in his sense of humor (they are funny); he presents very valid arguments and backs them up with documentation and interviews. He brings to light many of the things I have discovered in my own research into deceit, terrorism and the USG.
When I was a liberal (before I knew better) the only accurate information had to come from another liberal else it was a lie??? Later when I made my second mistake and became a conservative I learned the error of my ways … the truth could only be had from like ilk … so imagine my confusion when I called the neolibs and neocons for what they are and went independent. Suddenly, I have no source of valid information at all now (seemingly hehehe). I have had no success at all trying to walk the moderate tightrope between all the sharks without one side or the other dragging me down, go figure.
As far as Democrats/Republicans are concerned, their only care about the independent majority is how many they can acquire each election. But no matter which side is the best recruiter or who gets most independent votes … matters that concern the moderates will largely be ignored or sidelined and the neo-politicians will go their own course virtually unrestricted and completely unaccountable.
They are capitalizing politically by not pushing the issue too hard because it is believed that Karzai's brother and other elements of the Afghani Govt are involved in the drug trade. We don't want to lose all influence over the Afghani Govt. I suspect we are also turning a blind eye to some druglords there who are in one way or another supporting US goals. As to whether the CIA is doing the same thing as it did back with the Mujaheddin.....I don't know, however since we are currently siding with Karzai in trying to negotiate a treaty with the Taliban I think it is less likely than likely.
How you can separate the CIA from the Fed is beyond me. The CIA works directly under the Executive branch??? It seems like you are trying to tell me that even though the drug money we garner is used to fund many military indiscretions around the world ... the Fed is somehow not responsible??? It is not like this is not public knowledge, but like so much today this stuff seems to be ignored by many. We should not have more people in our prisons than say Russia … don’t you think? Do you believe they just stopped dealing in the lucrative drug markets because they grew something like a conscience, I think not. We are talking about lots and lots of money here ... and you KNOW how the USG feels about that ... unaccountable $$$'s ... what could be better ...
CIA - The Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) is a civilian intelligence agency of the United States government. It is an executive agency and reports directly to the Director of National Intelligence, with responsibility for providing national security intelligence assessment to senior United States policymakers. Here are thgree names to look up. Amadeus, Pegasus and Watch Tower … redacted as only the government can do so well and get away with it … for sure.
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoUMyudlYFY&feature=related
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/ssci.shtml
Could we please STOP talking about Afghanistan now ... I thought we agreed that that was just a starting point and since your mind is so firmly set on THAT issue, it could only be productive if we move ON.
Case files of the CIA:
Smooth … I cannot believe you are unaware of this kind of illegal drug shit … it is all over the place. That is why I was puzzled about Afghanistan … the only country the USG is not capitalizing on from drugs … it just took me aback a bit is all. This is where I was headed is all.
I'm not. I am well aware of much of what happened during the Iran Contra ordeal. But that does not make me automatically assume we are involved in the same kind of thing in Afghanistan. Like I said earlier....I would guess we are turning a blind eye there but I have seen nothing that proves direct involvement,
Smoothseas; as far as I can see, you are trying to change my intentions. I was at first just pointing out the corruption in Afghanistan due to drugs and the culpability of the USG. The ‘war’ if you will, was not started BECAUSE of the drug issues … but they were and still are an integral part of almost all CIA black ops and Afghanistan is no different. There are too many issues that have been, not kept out of the news … but that have been stymied from prosecutions by the real powers that be. No different than the 911 shit that everyone seems to know about but they too are just sidelined as hapless ‘conspiracy’ theorists. At some point this ‘blind eye’ thing which is just another way of saying ‘plausible deniability’ has to itself be addressed. Does that fact alone not verify culpability? We are NOT dealing with the Bible where those supporters demand 100% infallible evidence (which they would still gladly ignore) or they just turn a blind eye on it too. We are discussing the corruption of the USG (I think?) and you need irrefutable proof of that??? If this is not of interest, just say so but don’t give me this “automatically assume” crap … nobody is assuming anything here … at least I am not. I will leave a few choice links … but you are well versed with the internet and should not need them.
http://www.infowars.com/ny-times-afghan-opium-kingpin-on-cia-payroll/
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/11/11/armitage-part-i-the-early-years-the-golden-triangle/
When you have some time … these is a good reads.
http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/deep_black_1_2.htm
Political Economy of Human Rights, Vol. 1 : The Washington Connection and the Third World by Noam Chomsky (Jul 1979)
http://books.google.com/books?id=YWQU_CEhpC4C&pg=PA323&lpg=PA323&dq=Noam+Chomsky+on+phoenix&source=bl&ots=SFf_g-hjxH&sig=a4pZvfC0yq3Edej_CfiG0wWZxV8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KkE1T_XeIISFtge004GqAg&ved=0CFEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false
Afghanistan is very different. Congress voted for our tax dollars to be used to arm the Afghani Gov't. The CIA in the past used drug money to fund actions that were not approved by congress and to wage secret proxy wars. We also plant agents within certain groups to get intel and it is difficult to separate those instances since it means compromising the safety of agents. I take each situation case by case. The CIA could be involved if they were funding or arming the rebels in Syria for example, however one would need facts to prove such things.
As to the infowars acticle Paul Watson is not my idea of a non biased journalist or even a journalist. Not to mention if you zoom in on the photo in that specific article you will see that it is a photoshop crop job.
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Paul_Joseph_Watson
Otherwise old information about non related events proves nothing about current events.
Do you think Black Ops information is made available to the public or the media … EVER? Why does it seem to take years at times to uncover it … because of the ease for obtaining it? My point being, there is a well-documented past history of corruption and deceit in the USG, the CIA and the FBI … and it goes back at least 60 years. And when this stuff is discovered years later … it is just OLD NEWS then and seemingly meaningless to many??? What in the world makes you think the USG has turned over a new lease on life ... that they actually got holy and grew a conscience? Speaking of evidence … do you have ANYTHING at all along THOSE lines? How in the world am I supposed to get current covert information ... FoIA? It seems that old news is about as useful as no news at all ... so it should just be ignored as well as the current world situations in which we are involved too. Seemingly this is only going to be a dead end of a chat between us over this silly difference, so I suppose we should crease while we are still friendly. How do you think we are funding the destruction we are evoking elsewhere (as if we are prim and proper in Afghanistan ONLY) around the world … Congressional Support hidden from the public or maybe black funds from some ‘other’ source. It would help to look more at the message than the messenger though. It is just too easy to say this guy has an agenda (like nobody else does) and dismiss everything said just because of that. It would have meant more to me had you commented on say Noam or some of the other references I have made … but you chose the guy you could just dismiss offhand. I only started with Afghanistan because of the post topic … but it seems I cannot get away from it … so I will find something else to discuss that won’t prove to be so immaturely continuous.
Simply find some proof that is all.
Its not meaningless, it simply does not prove anything other than what happened in the past. It should certainly create skepticism, but does not prove anything about what is happening today.
You would think however maybe you should check the sources from which some your information is posted. Not much difference there.
Why would I comment on what you posted from Chomsky. He was commenting on what was happening during the Vietnam War Era in the 60's.
Here is a good quote from Chomsky:
"If you want to carry out terrorist activities, you need local people to do it for you, and you also need secret money to pay for it, clandestine hidden money. Well, if you need to hire thugs and murderers with secret money, there aren't many options. One of them is the drug connection. The so-called Golden Triangle around Burma, Laos and Thailand became a big drug producing area with the help of the United States, as part of the secret wars against those populations."
I agree with it. However what the US is doing in Afghanistan is not quite "clandestine terrorist activity".
No reason at all that I can see because all the proof you are looking for is going to take enough time to make it old news too ... so it can then just be shit canned with the rest of history and all its lessons. Not to worry, I will refer you to nothing without PROOF which makes this impossible of course because there will be no such PROOF forthcoming ... just like the bible ... NO ABSOLUTE PROOF IS AVAILABL on ANY subject so you will be having a long wait.
Many things do become uncovered over time. There is after all proof about Iran contra and what happened in Viet Nam. As to what is happening now maybe you should research the history of the Karzai family. The Karzai family had strong political ties to the Government that existed prior to the Taliban, the Government that was in control when then heroin trade flourished and ties to the government prior to the Soviet invasion.
Not always but Infowars.com is propaganda and not in any way even close to investigative reporting.
Good night Smooth ... maybe one day I will become an Afghanistan expert too. And I don't care about info whatever ... where is there no propaganda (NOT A QUESTION)???
Sorry, I am not in a very good mood tonight.
However it is a good question. It gets more and more difficult to weed through the chaff, however some websites are better than others.
I tend to use information such as this to form my opinion on the issue:
http://gretchenpeters.org/selected-publications
I'm no expert either but I to try to find decent reads written by experts.
The pdf found on the page this links to is a really good read on the subject matter.....
http://www.usip.org/publications/how-opium-profits-the-taliban
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/08/04/straight_outta_kandahar
I have been going through the Corbett Reports past articles and thought you might like this 1
http://www.corbettreport.com
Another goody
http://www.corbettreport.com/faking-it-how-the-media-manipulates-the-world-into-war/
What silliness.
Daiwa ... do you ever consider actually making a real comment ... or are you just too intellectually dishonest to actually need to say something useful for a change? Which part was so silly ... besides your attitude that is, hahaha?
Nice try. I'll leave the silliness to you guys. Ban me or tolerate me. Your choice.
Daiwa; no, banning is not a solution IMO ... the fault being of course mine as I should know better by now than to actually try and engage you in any reasonable conversation. I just don't understand why you bother to make your frivolous comments in the first place, particularly with your reviewable past and you continued failure to back up much of what you say. Just seems like these are the actions of idiots: One of us trying to converse and the other trying not too ... but I know how to take care of my side of this issue and I do not even have to tolerate you when it is so much easier just to ignore you instead ... so adios amigo … happy whatever it is you think you are doing besides taking up space.
I just heard a good argument against the possibility of a presidential conspiracy concerning 911. The people who think the Bush admiration was the most incompetent in history … well they are the same people who think this admiration pulled the wool over the eyes of the world on 911 in one of the most organized attacks on American soil. I would say that is ‘compartmentalization’ on steroids. How does one isolate these contradictory views in one mind? Room for thought hahaha.
Actually, "no room" for thought in those brains.
On that we can agree, GFT.
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