On another blog, a fellow JoeUser asked the following questions and made the following comments:
I am irritated with the closed-mindedness of organizations with causes. If there is only one way (YOUR way) to reach God … why are there so many divergent paths and religions making the same claim? What makes you think it is even conceivable that a paper trail in excess of 2000 years could contain much resemblance to the original fictions?
I am sure you have heard of the test that goes like this: Get a group of 10 people in a circle and whisper a statement to one person. Then they whisper it to the next and so on. There has never been a valid documented case where the original statement bore much resemblance to the 10th person’s statement. This is simply explained with the fact that people are different and they think ‘differently’. Organizations do not like this concept which they classify as ‘self-serving individualism’.
I must be a fool (as you are want to tell me) because I do not believe that the concepts of lying, deceit and conspiracy, power struggles, suppressing the masses, limiting real knowledge, murder, deception and intrigue are new to this century or any other for that matter. But of course, religious theology was not susceptible to human contamination … of course. I believe these concepts were in existence long before recorded time. Why would this befouling of the truth affecting all of human history, exclude ONLY Christian Doctrine? Only mind dead robots could believe this absurdity.
Quoting Smoothseas, reply 218What I find interesting is how you keep trying to prove something with historical information (some correct and some incorrect)that can not be proven. The people I know who truly believe that their religion is more than just a control or teaching mechanism tend to say ultimately there is a "leap of faith".
Quoting Smoothseas, reply 218What I find interesting is how you keep trying to prove something with historical information (some correct and some incorrect)that can not be proven.
What can't be proven? I've already shown (without going into great detail) that Catholicism was the perfect fulfillment of the Divinely revealed OT Jewish religion. It can be historically shown that Jesus the Christ (God made flesh) founded the Catholic Church and the CC only.
That makes both the Catholic Faith and Church of Divine origin...and that just drives some people nuts, doesn't it?
You speak of faith. Now there is (natural) human faith and there is (supernatural) Divine faith.
By faith we believe things. Now people don't believe with their feelings or emotions, rather they believe with their minds. Belief is a mental conviction.
Faith is not necessary to arrive at the conviction that God has actually given a revelation to mankind and that Christianity is that revelation. But while reason can prove the fact of this revelation, Faith is necessary for the full acceptance of the contents of that revelation.
Quite apart from from religion, this holds true in natural faith which you would not dream of finding unreasonable. For example, reason tells me that there are very good grounds for accepting Professor X as an expert in his own branch of natural science. Now he tells me that there are no chromosomes in the simplest living cells. I accept that as a fact by faith in the knowledge and veracity of Professor X is an expert in this particular matter. If you ask me to prove that there are no chromosomes in the simplest living cells, I could show you where Prof. X states this to be a definite fact and certain conclusion of biological science and advance reasons for the acceptance of Prof. X as a compteent authority. If you refuse to have faith in Prof. X in this matter, you would reject his teaching; but the refusal of faith in him in this matter would be unreasonable.
So, too reason can justify the claims of the one true Christian religion (Catholicism) to be the revelation of God. But the teachings of that religion deal with truths of the supernatural order much more above the experience of ordinary human knowledge than Prof. X's chromosomes are above the average man's scientific experience. We, therefore accept Catholic teachings by faith; but that act of faith is reasonable in virtue of the reasonable grounds for the Catholic religion as the revelation of God.
Divine Faith is a virtue and a great gift of God. It doesn't imply burying one's head in the sand. It teaches a number of things which are above reason, for the revealed truths known only to God must be above human thought. But while Faith teaches some truths so profound as to be above natural reason, it never teaches any single doctrine which is opposed to sound and rational principles. Prove any given Catholic doctrine to violate correct principles of reason, and I shall cease to believe in it at once.
What are those statements that are truly opposite of some of the teachings of Christ?
Yes, indeed...the choice for God or against God is set before us. We have the power to choose. It's called free will. God doesn't force Himself on us, so it is an either/or situation.
Those people who don't believe in God replace God with self or some one. or something else (vice, work, power, money) as the center of their lives (universe).
What country has imposed Catholicism?
Art. 1 §1 declares that “The Supreme Pontiff, Sovereign of Vatican City State, has the fullness of legislative, executive and judicial powers
Art. 1 pertains to jurisdiction of the universal Catholic Church only. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the secular running of government or the temporal order of nations, states or countries.
The Filippines is about 98% Catholic so I guess we could call it a Catholic State. However, the Vatican has nothing to do with the temporal affairs of running the country. At the same time, with a majority of Catholics, do the Church's teachings come into play...sure...that's why it's one of the only countries that has not accepted abortion as the law of the land. But the UN and its agancies are there trying to get their grimy sin-ridden policies in place. Satan never rests.
The existence of God.
I would say it takes faith and/or indoctrination to varying degrees depending on the environment in which an individual is raised.
I don't find religion unreasonable. I have a very good understanding of why it exists. I admire many people I know who are devout. I admire the charitable nature of many religious organizations as well. I simply believe that the Bible contains the words of men and not the words of a God.
No we cannot call it a Catholic State. The Philippines is actually a Republic.
There is no such thing as a secular Catholic State. You may have a secular state that has majority of Catholics in its population, however that is not a Catholic State. History has shown what can happen when religion gets into bed with government. It surely does not paint the picture of compassion and tolerance that you espouse.
Yes, Almighty God exists and yes, it can be proven; that is, the existence of God can be locigally demonstrated. His non-existence cannot.
------------------------------
Did you read the second part of my statement? I made a distinction.
So back to my first statement (highlighted) and why I say that Faith is not necessary.....
The Christian religion really rests on a co-ordinated series of facts from Adam to Pope Benedict XVI, or to any Pope that may succeed him in the future until the end of the world. This series of facts is spread over thousands of years and embraces events, words, declarations or principles, doctrines and precepts, whether in ancient Jewish or Christian times. The ancient Jewish religion (God's revelation) which surely existed was really preparatory Christianity (not Protestantism), it's whole genius being a looking forward to the coming of Christ. Catholicism is but ancient Judaism fulfilled by Christ.
Yes, I know.
I understand that too. However, it could be considered a "Catholic State" if it's people were governed by laws that are in harmony or at least do not contradict God's laws, as abortion does.
Go ahead and consider it a catholic state if you wish, then take a trip there so you can see just how wonderful your catholic nirvana really is.
Thanks.
It's been said the Phillippines is the most Catholic Country in the whole world. It's present Constitution is in complete accord with God's laws concerning life and the dignity of the human person made in the image and likeness of God.
To their credit, Phillippino Catholics understand children are the only future a nation has and so far their Constitutional legislation reflects this.
Satan hates this and that's why the anti-life movement, namely the US Foreign aid establishment, is over there trying to get their satanic idea of reducing the birthrate, only they call it "reproductive health" by changing its Constitution to institute programs that force sterilizations, force contraception and force abortions.
You totally missed my point. As you pontificate about your abortion crusade you should take a really good look at the Philippines. I've been there several times. You should take a look for yourself. I laughed when I read your statement about "the harmony of god's law" when referring to the Philippines.
The subject of the OP you quoted was about a totally different matter. Unfortunately you couldn't (refused to) objectively debate that issue and instead decided to move straight into trying to invalidate every religious sect except your own. I can recall seeing a few news items over the past few years showing statistics suggesting that atheists and agnostics on average knew more about religion than many other religious types. My initial response was, hmmm...how could that be? That question is very easily answered however when you listen to someone who doesn't even understand what faith is and where it applies in their own religion.
So let me tell you just one of many reasons why there are so many religions and in particular so many sects of Christianity. In simple terms it is that "because I told you so" is not a good answer when reality contradicts tradition.
Ok, so you've been there, however my point concerning the Phillippines stands---as far as religion...the Phillippines is a Catholic Country---whose present Constitution is in complete accord with God's laws concerning life and the dignity of the human person made in the image and likeness of God.
From my very first comment and throughout this discussion, I have objectively defended that there is but one true God and but one true religion of His making. That religion is ancient Hebraic Judaism fully blossomed into Catholicism.
Sure there are many different religions out there. Common sense tells us it is not possible to believe that all the religions to be true. If any one of them is true, then the others are false. I'm saying I've found the one true religion of God's making. It can be proved historically that Christ lived, that He was God, and that He founded an imperishable Church which was to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic. Find that Church and you too will have the one true religion of God's making.
First point: There is but one Christianity, the one holy religion of God's making, the one Christian Faith and it's called Catholicism.God sent His Son, Jesus Christ Who established one definite Church to which He gave His teaching authority to teach all truth until the end of the world.
There is no such thing as "so many sects of Christianity". There are, however, so many sects of Protestantism. But what is Protestantism? It's a man-made heresy as is Islam. Christ predicted that heresies would arise, but distincltly forbade men to abandon the Chruch and originate them. Since 1517, all the thousands of sects of Protestantism exist becasue men arrogated to themselves the right to coin new doctrines and set up churches of their own. Christ certainly did not establish any one of the thousands of Protestant sects so they are not of God's making.
I've already given my explanation why there are so many different religions....
No you gave an explanation of why you think every other religion known to man is invalid except your own.
Oh my....that too!
it's NOT about Religion. It's about having a relationship with our Creator. There are many, many, many who are religious but lost. That was what Christ was saying all thru the gospels. Just take a good look at Matt 23 and see all the woes directed at the religious in His day.
It's all about truth vs tradition. Lula what you are espousing is religious tradition. It's men vs God. I know you are very sincere but so weren't the religious zealots of Christ's day. Judas was sincere. The Pharisees were sincere. Saul (before he became Paul) was sincere. All were lost. Christ gave us many warnings about the traditions of men vs His truth. It's all thru scripture, old and new testaments.
You have been warned.
"Woe to the obstinate children, declares the Lord to those who carry out plans that are not mine forming an alliance but not by my Spirit heaping sin upon sin." Isa 30:1
"Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help who rely on horses who trust in the multitude of their chariots and in the great strength of their horsemen but do not look to the Holy One of Israel or seek help from the Lord." Isa 31:1
This is what the Lord says "Cursed is the one who trusts in man who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the Lord." Jer 17:5
"Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils. Of what account is he? Isa 2:22
Put away the RCC traditions/teachings and pick up the scriptures and read them.
"Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sits in the seat of the mockers. But his delight is in the law of the Lord and on his law he meditates day and night. He is like a tree planted by streams of water which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he does will prosper." Psalm 1
KFC, good to hear from you again! I have to apologize as I thought you too were a Catholic. I went through a period where the two blended into one. Of course, I didn't know at the time that you were only a 'second hand' Christian, go figure. As a matter of fact, I have learned much about the RCC and their inability to acquiesce to anyone or anything not in their best interests. The only disagreement I have with religion in general is the fact that I (personally) do not believe there ever was a ‘One God’ which unfortunately devaluates everything you believe in … I am sorry for that. But it is your right to believe whatever you desire, even if it is not factual, provable or the least bit possible. I admire you for your ethics and fortitude, if not your decision making. However, the RCC is another matter, one that I find offensive, not because of their religion, but because of their stoic dogma that they think gives them and only them the keys to the earth (and beyond). Anyway, good luck with the Catholics. It might help if you enjoy beating your head against a brick wall though.
Hi KFC,
Your entire post 238 is spoken like a true Protestant...a P-R-O-T-E-S-T against Catholicism.
Let's go over your claims.
First one:
Well, yes it is about Religion. You can make believe "it's not about religion" but you are only deluding yourself and whomever will listen to you. Not false religion or irreligion, but yes, it is about the one true Religion of God's making.
Almighty God's salvation plan for mankind involves our Redeemer Christ and His one true holy religion that was revealed in the Old and fulfilled in the New Testament.
That religion is ancient Hebraic Judaism fully blossomed into the one true Christian religion known as Catholicism. It can be proved historically that Christ lived, that He was the living God, and that He founded an imperishable Church which was to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic. Find that Church of the living God and you too will have the one, true religion of God's making.
Look up "Christianity" in any dictionary. 1. Noun. The religion taught by Christ and His followers. Christian religion. 2. Christian beliefs or faith; condition of being a Christian.
Look up "Christian" in any dictionary. 1. Noun. A person who believes in Christ and follows His teachings; person belonging to the religion of Christ.
KFC,
Beside the Cross, why else did Our Lord Jesus Christ, the living God come? He tells us in St.John 18: 33-37.
"...For this I was born, and for this came I into the world that I should give testimony to the truth. Everyone that is of the truth, heareth My voice."
Notice the last part of that, "Everyone that is of the truth, heareth My voice."
Now as for that last part, keep St.Luke 10:16 in mind. "He who hears you hears Me and he who rejects you, rejects Me, and he who rejects Me rejects the one who sent Me."
Who is the "you", Christ is talking about here so that we might hear His Voice and be taught His truth? How did Christ tell us to hear His voice? It's His one teaching Church that He had established on Simon renamed Peter....the same one Church He gave His authority and sent out to convert, baptize and teach all that He had commanded.
"All power in Heaven and earth is given to Me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded."
Now the teaching authority in Christ's one true Church can't err in matters of faith and morals becasue she has Divine protection to teach only truth. We know this from St. John 14:25-26, 15:26-27.
"These things I have spoken to you while yet dwelling with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit whom the Father well send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your mind whatever I have said to you, .....when the Advocate has come, whom I will send you from the Father, He will bear witness concerning Me, becasue from the beginning you are with Me."
From this we know the teaching authority of Christ's one, catholic, holy and apostolic Church would not, could not teach error becasue fallible human beings would not be doing the actual infallible teaching of the truth, the infallible Holy SPirit of God, the infallible Christ would be doing the actual teaching, speaking through the human teaching authority of the Church (The Pope and Bishops).
Christ made this quite clear when He said, "He who hears you, hears Me....".
Confirming the teaching authority of Christ's one, holy, catholic apostolic CHurch is the infallible St.Paul when he wrote,
"...in the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and mainstay of truth." 1Tim. 3:15.
Again, find that one Church of the living God and you too will have found the one, true religion of God's making.
I don't know what sect of Christianity KFC belongs to but it seems logical to me that it might actually be more valid. Seems their version of the Bible did not redline Christs teachings of tolerance.
Similar to Protest Wall Street, except they hadn't figured out how to slice up golden repentance into derivatives yet.
Sorry people, but I am not going to continue with this back and forth brouhaha. Let the religions and churches play this game as they try to destroy each other with their kindness, infallible 'knowledge' and circular existence. This nonsense goes hand in hand with the barbarism of the time when all this goodliness was written (by man) and the bible that resulted is rampant with inhumane ‘orders’ that inflict pain, death and total destruction on the peoples of the world for acting well like people do. The following short clip amply demonstrates the ridiculous nature of religion and the stoic dysfunction of the RCC … and the absurdity of claiming that the bible is “god’s” perfect word.
10 Reasons Why the Bible is Repulsive
Not forced at all. You just have to spend all of eternity in hell if you do not. It is like trying to explain to a judge that because you held a gun to some ones head, and told them to sign a contract or you would shoot them, that it is a valid contract, and he was not forced, he had freewill to say no.
Next one of your claims:
[/quote]
"It's" is rather vague. Could you be more specific as to what "it's" means?
"it's NOT about Religion. It's about having a relationship with our Creator." Do you know that these two statements are a marketeering of Evangelical Protestantism?
Protestants declare "religion" a forbidden word. That's because religion is too closely associated with the CC. But you know you're saying "It's not about religion" would have astonished St.James who had a few things to say about "religion that is pure and undefiled before God..." 1:27.
"having a relationship"? is kinda trendy and can mean different things.
If having a relationship with our Creator refers to the need for a personal Faith in the One True Holy God, then "relationship" has value.
But the trouble is relationships come and go...they run hot and cold. I'd say there are many, many, many who think they have a relationship with God, but are lost. That's because "relationship" has edged out true Faith.
Well, it's true Protestants do have different versions and translations of the Bible. But even so....
"Christ's teaching of tolerance"? Can you provide chapter and verse of "Christ's teaching of tolerance"?
Then why did you post the "clip"?
Was it your way of hit and run?
KFC quoted some of them and there are many more.
You're the bible thumper not me. I think the Bible is folklore. It is your responsibility to study the Bible if you wish to live solely by the teachings of Christ.
I'm a biblical Christian with a Christian worldview. Basic. Reformed. Usually I just say I'm a Christian because in the end it has nothing to do with denomination. But for clarity if I were to label myself I'd go with a Reformed Baptist label. Back to basics, stripping away all man-made traditions that have a way of seeping into our belief systems. From time to time we have to examine our lives and make sure it's God's word settling into our hearts and minds and not man-made traditions or teachings.
Many don't realize that "church" in the Greek is NOT a building. Church is ecclesia which is "called out ones." We don't GO to church. We ARE the church. Christ went into the synagogues to teach and preach them out of man-made traditions and religiosity. The religious leaders were furious with him and went about plotting his death. Every time I read about the Pharisees in scripture I can't help but see the RCC because I see the same arguments they have today. Jesus went up against their idea of religion and what did they do? There is no bigger stain on the history of the world, no bigger tragedy than man killing their own creator showing us the full scope of how sinful man really is.
God even uses the wrath of man for his own purposes.
Even Steve Jobs who died recently and believed wholeheartedly that there was no God did say in August, just before his death, that he was thinking more and more about God and was coming closer to belief. He wanted to believe that there was more to life than this.
I challenge people all the time, don't wait that long. It most likely, will be too late. You may not even get that time at all.
Give God one year. One year, now, while it's still daylight in your life to see. Because there will come a day, when death will come and it will be dark. You will pass over and you will know the truth, but it will be too late. There's a saying..."hell is truth seen too late." Truth always rises to the top. Always. Truth prevails and the real counterfeits will be exposed.
Start planning for the trip now. It's like any other trip only longer. Just as you make preparations for a trip on this side of eternity, make sure you give some time to prepare for the other side of eternity because there is no coming back to have a "do over."
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