You know something? I'm not saying that SW=GOD. I'm not saying that Lucas isn't an idiot, or doesn't have subpar writing. What I am saying is that for the purposes of a versus debate, you're misrepresenting evidence.

To tell truth, I consider the parsecs comment to actually be a note that Han could navigate a much shorter-distance route than any other pilot could, due to either skill or his personally-tuned hyperdrive on the Falcon. As for the hyperdrive failure in TESB, and supposed "sublight" transit, it's quite possible that SW drives have a superluminal-travel capability.

Seeing as how it didn't take them an absurdly long time, and the fact that the SW galaxy shows no indication of violating the current theories of star formation, that's the only reasonable concept that there is.

It's not as bad as you think though. Because there's the fact that in one of the Trek movies (TNG-era), the Enterprise makes it to Earth from the edge of the system within a couple of hours, but under impulse power. It seems quite logical to consider that perhaps impulse drive is capable of maneuvering the ship at very-low-superluminal velocities, no?

And the idea that SW sublight drives have a superluminal component isn't particularly offensive, now is it. After all, said capability would obviously have limitations, otherwise they wouldn't use hyperdrive.

1. The incident in question implied much less than 13 hours of travel. To go at 0.5c from Pluto to Earth would take almost 26 hours. That's a tad more than a day. It seems obvious to me that "a couple hours" would imply just that.

2. You obviously haven't read any SW tech books. Because if you had, you'd realize that SW fighters have acceleration measured in several thousands of g's, and that even SW capital ships have such accelerations. TIE fighters can perform accelerations of up to 4100g. The ISD-II has a max acceleration of 2300g.

And, IIRC, the Galaxy-class was given as doing 1500g in one of the ST tech manuals. Obviously, then, since SW tech books are most assuredly canon, even an ISD-II could outrun the Enterprise-D. Could the ISD-II outmaneuver a Trek ship? Probably not, but it wouldn't need to, considering the immense weapons coverage it has. Oh, and anti-fighter armament that makes a Trek ship look like an oversized, overcosted bomber.

Once again, you proove yourself as a typical Trektard, claiming that SW fighters only travel at 100-1000s of m/s, when the accelerations given by the officially-approved technical literature for SW says that they can manage several thousand g's.

Isn't unreasonable, given that the SW civilizations have been spacefaring for many thousands of years. Considering the ease with which piracy can be performed, I don't consider it unreasonable for a merchant freighter to have a backup superluminal drive of any kind, that isn't hyperdrive, and that may or may not be principally comprised of the sublight drives.

After all, if pirates fry the hyperdrive, then you'll obviously need some way to get to the nearest friendly spaceport to service your ship.

Describes the man who thinks that SW fighters can only sustain speeds (which is nonsensical anyway) of 100-1000s of m/s, all while claiming that Trek ships can do millions of m/s of "speed". It's ridiculous, seeing as how there is no top speed in space.

As an aside, impulse drive is described as working by a very weak warp field, IIRC. So is it really unreasonable that said warp field could be slightly boosted to allow for low-superluminal velocity?

I concede this point, because I double-checked the incident, and it was, in fact, from the orbit of Earth to a bit past Jupiter, and was relativistic and not superluminal.

No, I'm not. I should rephrase my statement however. There is no practical top speed in space, because accelerating and decelerating to and from relativistically-appreciable fractions of c is highly impractical.

The problem is that if both parties are capable of such accelerations, then combat will be conducted at fairly long distances and at such velocities. It's not unreasonable in the least that two fighters of mostly equal acceleration and maneuverability would make use of their full accelerative power.

There's also the fact that it does not matter that you prefer the Original Trilogy. This is because all of SW is canon. Not just the OT, not just the films, not just the techbooks. All of it.

As an aside, accelerative capabilities for starfighters are still better, as in ANH a group of X-Wings crossed 400,000 kilometers in under five minutes, requiring a minimum of 17,000 m/s^2 (~1700g) of acceleration, and in ROTJ the fighters cross 300,000 km in around five minutes, requiring 13,000 m/s^2 (~1300g) of acceleration. Note that that's factoring significant figures.

Of course, those are possibly fighters moving slower in order to conserve fuel to increase combat endurance, as in ROTJ a fleet of Star Destroyers was stationary relative to a planet, and in less than two seconds boosted to around 60 km/s, requiring acceleration on the order of 30,000 m/s^2, or about 3000g. That's what, two or three times the capability of a Galaxy-class starship, eh?

While an impulse drive may be a simple "fusion drive" (I checked up on this too), it's enhanced with subspace fields, and the ship get's its performance because some of its mass is "submerged in subspace". Of course, you're ignoring the fact that there are some cases of suggestion that impulse drives are indeed capable of interstellar capability (such as the Romulan ship in TOS "The Balance of Terror" used only "simple impulse power"). It's likely a case of interstellar impulse being slower and less efficient than warp drives.

As for the arrival at Bespin from the asteroid field, it's strongly implied that the two are in two separate systems.

And now I debunk your claim regarding the size of the SW galaxy and speed of hyperdrive.

The ROTJ novelization states that the Rebel fleet was hundreds of lightyears away from the DS2 construction site. As a result, the Rebel fleet covered the distance (a minimum of 200 lightyears, otherwise it wouldn't say "hundreds of lightyears") in the time it took for Vader to take Luke from the surface of Endor to the DS2. Even accounting for loading and on-foot transport time, this is no more than 30 minutes, as from ANH we know that the average Wars starship can go from surface to orbit in much less than thirty minutes.

Even if we say that it took thirty minutes, and 200 lightyears, this gives a velocity of 3.5 million c. That's about 442 times Warp Factor 9.99, as given in the TNG technical manual and the Star Trek Encyclopedia. So much for your claim that any ship capable of Warp Factor 2 could outrun a hyperdrive equipped starship.

Depends on whether the Trek-wanking fanboy will concede he's wrong.

Or 50' tall Zentradi...

Are you serious!!! I Need to read up that...IIRC the 5 to 6 million ships blasted the surface of Earth to the stone age, but the way you talking, that would just blow the whole planet apart...

Except it's not, you're using the bullshit numbers from the later written works for your comparisons, and the X-wing used in the movies has an acceleration of 3700g.  That's 36,260 meters per second, in an hour you'd be looking relativity in the face as time slowed enough to cause you grief.

Except your speed decreases the maximum effective firing range of even light speed based weaponry.  With this kind of acceleration, everyone is bomber swarm.  They accelerate, come into weapons range of large vessels, and bomb the living shit out of them from outside their firing range.  The fighters then spend the next several hours attempting to get a lock in futility as they pass each other at speeds so extreme that their targeting computers cant even spot the target before they pass it while the bombers merrily travel to and fro, expending their munitions and returning home to refuel.  Occasionally, someone will happen to get lined up behind someone and manage to shoot them down through sheer dumb luck, as the massive accelerations make pursuit an inhuman task only a Jedi could manage.

Except, it's a paradox.  You have directly contradictory information.  You choose the upper limits, from the heavily revised literature, following hilarity over his original numbers, and you ignore the on screen contradictions while applying them to others.  Never mind that both sets are absurdly impractical.

But if it's a duel with their commands, then Picard wins. [/never liked Kirk]

This is so STUPID.

starwars, startrek, sins, stargate, bsg... its all based on ww1 and ww2 naval battles.  it would never work in any way like what is pictured on screen.

decent reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_naval_battles

Ah. Then yeah, it's likely the E-D or E-E could whip the E-nil, E-A, or E-B into the ground.

The comparison is innacurate, mostly because the two ships you mention are completely different classes with vastly different roles, while every iteration of the Enterprise has broadly the same role.

Now, IMO, it's still MAD. TOS-era combat usually occured at longer ranges than TNG&beyond, but TNG-era starships have more firepower at their disposal, and also tend to be faster due to greater reactor capabilities and more efficient warp cores.

I don't think anyone's disputing that it wouldn't work in any way that differs than what's onscreen. I think the dispute revolves around what capabilities are implied by the feats displayed.

And the actual reasons for the debate mostly revolve around passing the time in an enjoyable fashion. There's also the fact that debate is intellectually stimulating, even if the subject is a less-than-mature one.

I think it depends on the franchise in question. SW is undoubtably based on WWII naval warfare. The Star Trek TOS episode "Balance of Terror" was a fairly obvious ST-take on a U-boat versus surface ship battle (Romulan warbird vs Enterprise). However, while perhaps uninentionally, most of the tactics and strategy in ST tend to revolve around Roman-era style naval warfare, with boardings being a perfectly feasible tactic.

In contrast, SW space combat more closely resembles a fusion between WWI-era big-gun battleship duels and WWII-era carrier doctrines, considering that most large vessels carry at least some fightercraft. oBSG is a pretty obvious nod to WWII carrier combat, while nBSG is a bit different, tending to emulate more modern carrier combat tactics.

Stargate, well, personally I've no idea what they're trying to emulate, but that's probably down to the fact that I haven't seen a whole lot of the series, and IIRC none of the episodes where the fight in space. Sins, I'd say it's a takeoff of Homeworld which I'm not really sure what the combat model is, as a properly supported Heavy Cruiser in HW1 could tear apart just about anything, while the same is relatively true of a battlecruiser in HW2. Of course, the BC's of HW2 also have some PD, and even a small hangar facility, so at a guess I'd say that the HW series in general, and by extension Sins, are based on a combination of big-gun battleship and carrier-doctrine warfare.

Then you have 40K, which seems to draw a little from everything. You have boarding and ramming as viable, but usually rare, tactics (combat does occur at tens of thousands to millions of kilometers range in 40K, so it's hard to get close to the enemy), with the general take that a bigger ship trumps a larger ship, by virtue of greater durability, firepower, and endurance. At a guess, I'd say 40K is an amalgamation of big-gun battleship, carrier, and a couple of others that I can't think of off-hand.

Ive had a thought. Ive got ZombieRuss Races Mod, which gives 3 additional races to Sins.

Could i not use this Mod as a starting point and replace the races or merge, with the Federation, the Empire and say the Republic? from the other Mods? Ive got SOGE, SOA2 and Zombies Races Mod for Entrenchment V1.051.

I would need to know which files to merge & replace.

When loaded you would have the 3 stock races and the 3 above.

In ROTJ the Rebel fleet was stationed outside Sullust and jumped to Endor. A distance of 33,000 light years. Though this was through a straight artificial hyperspace lane.