The Executor lost control because George Lucas thought it would be awesome to have it crash into the Death Star with a big explosion. Any technical/canon reasons are made later. Which is why I personally find it amusing these fairly trivial details are important to you, but each man to his own.
All yes, it's in the script trumps over common sense and technobabble every time.....
Well, for one thing, DS2 likely:
1. Has a higher density than the average planet (you know, from all that armor plating and that giant hypermatter reactor).
2. DS2, being 900 km in diameter, is about 1/7th the diameter of Earth. Not an inconsiderable size and gravity.
3. Gravity has a bigger effect on higher-mass objects you dolt. While a standard ISD might not have plunged to it's doom within the DS2's gravity well, the Executor is a much higher mass warship, being several times longer and much higher volume (and thus density and mass). The Executor would be more prone to such a failure than an ISD.
4. Perhaps they don't use autopilot controls because of heavy jamming and ECM usage (which is canon), and instead use actual helmsman officers. It's not like a Trek ship has an autopilot failsafe. The helmsman buys the farm, the Enterprise is just as screwed as the Executor.
No, they wouldn't. If you had any sense, you'd realize this. Most of the senior officers are almost certainly on the primary bridge, but some of them would logically be on the secondary bridge, in the off-chance that the primary get's shot to pieces. It's called "not putting all your eggs in one basket". Further, senior officers are not automatically more skilled officers. They have experience and time-in-rank, but neither of those equates to skill.
A junior officer could very well be completely capable of competently taking command of a warship, whilst a senior officer is only in the position of command by virtue of political connections (which is precedented in the SW universe).
Well, that's almost certainly true. But you can't use authorial intent/fiat in versus debating, it's not objective. This is because the objective way to conduct a versus debate is to analyze each 'verses media as if they were documentary or biographical accounts. Analyzing in that manner allows no room for authorial intent, so we have to come up with a likely reason that the Executor lost control and crashed into DS2, and the most logical, reasonable, and likely explanation is that Executor was trapped by the gravity well of DS2 and thus crashed into it.
I'm not really trying to debate with you, I agree the Empire would win. But the thing is that is a pointless argument. Because authorial intent defines everything, the only reason the Empire would win is because George Lucas set his story in a more technologically advanced (weapons at least) universe. It would be like a modern army fighting a Roman legion. The modern army would win, but its not much of a victory, and thus doesn't prove that that army is anything special. Indeed, they probably wouldn't fight at all and the Romans would just surrender.
On the flip side, as both of these franchises are still active, if the Star Trek people made a new series where the phasers of the USS Enterprise-[insert letter here] could destroy planets, all of these arguments just became obsolete.
Simply put, compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.
I never thought you were attempting to debate me on SWvsST, but the thing is that authorial intent is ignored when analyzing scifi for versus debates in an objective manner, because when doing so you treat the film/book as if it's an authentic documentary/account of the events it details. It's like thinking "this WWII historical fiction novel is a real account of events in the war", or taking a Vietnam movie as an accurate account of said war.
Obviously it's not the case, but you suspend disbelief in order to treat it objectively. That's what I'm getting at.
And what does this have to do with Sins modding?
So after 81 replies is someone, hopefully a Modder, going to create a non cannon, balanced against the stock races, Star Wars vs Star trek Mod for Sins of a Solar Empire? It seems to me there would be quite some interest in it, if it occured.
Nothing. It's a tangent that broke off due to the content of the thread.
You have a computer. You have Sins. You have access to both Requiem and SoA2. You have the modding wiki.
I suggest you learn to fly, little bird. Because once you do, anything is possible. The Universe, is Yours.
Yeesh, look at what just the suggestion did.
Yes, because as everyone knows, a brick falls faster than a feather!
I don't usually recommend therapy on the internet, but you might should check yourself in, because you've seriously checked out here. There's an upper bound on the whole rabid fan syndrome, and it's way past the healthy point when you start trying to legitimize sound in space and butcher simple physics.
Also, the DS2 is hollow, and half finished to begin with. Gravitational pull relative to it's diameter would be insignificant next to an actual planetoid of similar size.
dude, whiskey, you just got trolled!
h4h4h4.
I recommend reading his posts with the voice of Napoleon Dynamite in your head. Not only is it more comical, but it also helps to make sense of his obsession. (Remove the words DS2 and insert "Liger" and it all makes sense.)
I just stopped arguing with him though. If they are going to refuse to acknowledge the obvious, it becomes an exercise in futility. We all Know the Empire would win, but as was said, it's comparing apples to oranges. It's because Lucas made the Star Wars universe in a world thousands of years more advanced than our own, and Star Trek takes place mere hundreds of years in our future. It's as logical as comparing the Prussian army in the 18th century to the current US military. I'm still trying to figure out the "tactical advantage" of providing fake laser sounds though. Sure we are auditory, but um, I think it's more a matter of making it more interesting to the viewer.
blast. i was almost certain that would have killed the thread.
Meh, it all depends on what canon source you use, I prefer the actual original trilogy. The talk regarding the Millennium Falcon shows the Empire as being horribly outclassed by any warp capable ship as hyper drive is horribly slow and their universe is just insanely small, like, a few light weeks across.
The thread, no. Me, yes.
good god! who would touch this now
If we go purely by the written word (suspension of belief and whatnot)... The Federation ALWAYS WINS and the EMPIRE always LOSES. If by some chance the Federation does lose THEY GO BACK IN TIME to correct the flaw!!!
It means I posted.
It's easier to describe internet culture with Wikipedia.
Though in this case its pretty much equivalent to "he owned you".
What you mistake as "rabid fan syndrome" is really me simply offering up suggestions of why this might be so, in-universe. Out-of-universe, it's obviously Rule of Cool at work.
And you know what the irony of SW and ST settings is? SW is quite possibly more believable. This is mostly because it doesn't butcher scientific buzz-words, and everyone knows transporters a la Trek are impossible.
Are you really suggesting the Wars galaxy is immensely tiny, and that hyperdrive is horribly slow? Because Wars canon is very clear on the matter. You can't cherry pick canon. I don't. I take the entire SW canon, and the entire ST canon. For example, SW tech books, are canon. The only way the tech books could be "decanonized" is if a new SW film came out and directly contradicted it.
Yes, for SW, films>books. But the books are canon, and Lucasfilms LTD has explicitly stated that. Nothing in the OT says that the Wars galaxy is immensely tiny and that hyperdrive is horribly slow. In fact, the background books/novels, and what-have-you, some of which were authored by Lucas himself, all described the galaxy as being big. 400 billion stars in fact. That's twice the current estimate of the Milky Way's stellar population. You can't pack 400 billion stars into a space a few lightweeks, because of the simple fact that a star cannot form closer than three lightyears to another star.
I'm assuming you're simply poking fun at the trekkie, but just in case: no source taken on its own suggests the Federation would win. None. Zip, zilch, nada.
On film statements:
"She'll make point five past lightspeed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself"
"You know, that ship's saved my life quite a few times. She's the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy!"
"Look, I want you to take her. I mean it, take her! You need all the help you can get; she's the fastest ship in the fleet!"
The Millennium Falcon is the fastest ship in the fleet. The Millennium Falcon is slow, vastly outstripped by a Warp 2 capable vessel, As they did not all die of old age on the way around the galaxy, obviously, the galaxy is small.
Thus, I have proven beyond all doubt that Lucas is a moron. Something accomplished with frequency by the man himself. Why oh why couldn't he have stopped at 3?
I personally wouldn't stop until 42.
I love this thread.
You're interpreting the dialogue literally, and in a rather strained manner. ".5 past lightspeed", does not mean "1.5 times the speed of light". Did it ever occur to you that perhaps the "0.5 past lightspeed" quote is in reference to a logarithmic scale, or perhaps is a reference to the hyperdrive grade? It's canon that a lower number for hyperdrive grade equates to a faster/longer-ranged drive.
You haven't actually proved anything. You've taken a snippet of dialogue, interpreted it ultra-literally, and assumed that the statement in question must refer to a particular thing, and could not possibly refer to something else, that would correlate with every other piece of evidence to the contrary of your statement!
Typical trektard tactics. Ultra-literal interpretation of dialogue.
is someone going to do the Mod or not?
Theophantus i already made a lot of the mod a few months ago i just didnt get permission from the original devolpers (i took parts of other mods) to release it. I did post this previously but no one took notice
This typical trektard has a firm grasp on reality and is fully aware that Gene Roddenberry was just as bleeding stupid as George Lucas is. You need only watch The Motion Picture to be made painfully aware of his cerebral limitations.
You are the definition of a rabid fan. Lucas gets blasted for his ridiculously subpar writing(and this is after his producers take a hatchet to all his idiotic names that were too cheesy even for a porno) and then the whole world bows down to his absurd excuses. Like using parsecs for a measurement of time being passed off as the ship traveling close to a black hole because it moves so fast.
It's clear, unadorned English. He's a genius for special effects, to the detriment of the prequels and remasters, but all that focused brain power leaves the rest of his faculties depressingly limited.
Have another black hole of idiocy. When their hyper drive failed in TESB, they traveled to another system at sublight. How close did you say two stars could be?
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