Theo, start a New thread in the mod section and somewhere in the OP post a link to this page for all the arguments and express that the mod page IS FOR MODDING questions and answers. I will help any way I can with getting it working and will ignore all this my dad can beat up your dad stuff.
@ whiskeyAww man.Travel back in time to get chuck norris ... i really believed this would be equal to a big blinking irony tag.But thx for the detailed answer anyway.About the Cylone/Borg Alliance vs Assimilation, i would vote for assimilated version, "borg" and "alliance" dosent feel right.And why shouldnt the borg be able to assimilate the cylons, they are assimilating technology all the time, its their thing, not to get as many drones as possible.More than that, beeing only computers could be the explanation why they got assimilated so quickly, at a time when the multiverse war hasnt become hot yet. (Borg dones sending out an "everythings good, everythings fine, im also a cylon"-tag while assimilating battlestar after battlestar, something like this)
"My dad can beat up your dad" is unquantifiable, unless the two dads you know, actually fight. In contrast, SWvsST is moderately quantifiable, by virtue of technical literature produced by each IP's owner-company.
But I agree, start a new thread that is for the mod.
1. I assumed you were a typical Trek-time-travel-wanker, because 99% of the time I've seen such an argument, that's been the case. You happen to be the 1% where it wasn't.
2. Cylon/Borg Alliance actually makes a great deal of sense. After all, did not the Borg ally with Janeway (who's a twit but that's neither here nor there) and the Voyager when S8472 started screwing up the Borg?
I'll also note that the Cylons actually have some military and infiltration/espionage competence, which the Borg tend to lack. So it could be a case of "hey, we have tactics'n'stuff we'll share, but only if you don't assimilate us". There's also the fact that ST-verse ships tend to due very poorly against physical impactors, whilst Cylons are armed very heavily with kinetic-impactor style missile armament.
I'll also point out that please please please get your 'canon' (so to speak) right; the Cylons do not use "battlestars". They use "basestars". Very big difference.
3. Just a side note, more-or-less, but Data was entirely a computer, and the Borg couldn't assimilate him. Granted, it may be because of something to do with his positronic brain, but it's not something completely baseless.
There's also the side-issue of the Cylons using radically different computer technology that the Borg might not be able to assimilate due to sheer disparity in design and capability. Borg assimilation isn't limitless magic, after all.
The previously mentioned Species 8472 proved that.
I already mentioned Base Delta Zero in regards to SW planetary bombardment, but apparently no one noticed so someone mentioned it again, amazing, simply amazing.
Wasnt the reason for 7o9 beeing stuck on voyager that the borg handled the alliance as an "let them research now, and assimilate later" - concept ?But im not talking about canon facts or stuff, just that the borg how i see them (some high tech copy of ridley scotts aliens) have the same word for learning, conquer and ally - assimilation.About the Base- and Battlestars, was that the reason George Lucas called his Battleships Star Destroyer ?One more thing ... i dont want to get sucked into this geeky scifi-tech-discussion ... but about assimilating Data, if you take that whole thing serious, than its just rediciuolus that they couldnt reverse engineer a functional and operating piece of hardware they had full physical access to. Datas positronic brain as well as Cylon circuits arent magic, after all.
WRT George Lucas and Star Destroyers, SD's are not battleships. They actually tend towards fleet escorts and light fleet combatants, as well as performing most operational patrol duties. SDs aren't the biggest ships around; the Executor is proof of that.
Though WRT assimilation, Data's (lack of) assimilation into the Borg indicates nothing of Federation ability to reverse engineer him; IIRC, the Feds were unable to reverse-engineer him (Data) not because they were incapable of doing so, but because doing so would require taking him apart, and Picard pretty much carried off a court case that gave Data the rights of any other sentient within the Federation.
However, the fact that Data was unable to be assimilated does indicate that vastly/radically different/foreign computer hardware or software architectures may be too difficult or impossible for the Borg to assimilate, say, the Cylons.
That, and having the Borg assimilate the Cylons is pretty cliche, whilst having the Borg being forced to ally with the Cylons is way more interesting. In this case, we have to look at it not only from a "could the Borg assimilate the Cylons" PoV, but also a "should the Borg assimilate the Cylons as part of the intro/backstory of this mod".
Then came the Replicators.
I'm a Replicating Borg Cylon Jedi Master!
WRT the analogue quote of mine, I'm not saying that "Star Destroyers=battleships". What I am doing is saying that an SD is a combat warship that represents a combination of battleship and carrier era design philosophies.
Being able to beam him up/down with a transporter doesn't equate to be able to duplicate and/or assimilate him. Just means that his parts don't go smaller than molecular scale precision (and are quite likely on a macroscopic scale, rather than as small as molecular).
TBH, what Data represented with the Federation was an exceedingly unique and potent example of AI component miniaturization. After all, the Federation, and Starfleet in particular, does have experience with AI systems, but they tend to be large, modern-day-supercomputer-sized affairs. In contrast, most of Data's computer circuitry relating to his intelligence software and hardware is all built into his head.
Well, IMO, having the Borg assimilate their allies is a bit trite. It's a clichéd example of a classic backstab, only Borg-style. In contrast, the Borg unable to assimilate the Cylons, and the Cylons able to seriously challenge the Borg due to the Borg being unable to adapt to Cylon weapons technology (projectiles have no frequency, and neither do nuclear weapons), makes the fact that the desirability as of the Cylons as allies rather than enemies is very great.
The common ground they have is that they are both bent on the destruction/assimilation of their foes, and are both (at least moderately) machine sentiences, though obviously more so (re: entirely) in the Cylons' case.
EDIT:
Your comment is made of WIN.
Lets have a vote then:
or
A borg drone assimilated into a Cylon Centurion would be unstoppable.
TBH, it wouldn't anthropomorphize them. It would indicate that the Borg are 'adapting' to the problem of being unable to assimilate a species that they are unable to effectively defend against. And the Borg are pretty much all about adapting, wouldn't you say?
In this case, instead of adapting to enemy weapons and assimilating the enemy, they are adapting by allying themselves with a power that, if they were not allied with, could be a potential threat to Borg expansionism.
I'm fairly certain that my vote is already pretty clear; the Borg shouldn't be able to assimilate the Cylons, though militarily if they so chose (and the Cylons know it) they could defeat them (though at great(er) cost). So they ally together.
Cant say anything about that, i liked ST:TOS/TNG and Voyager because it was like a high tech version of Bernal Diaz del Castillos The Conquest Of New Spain or Xenophons Anabasis, but ds9 and bab5 was always "just a soap opera in space" for me. (Although i admit that In The Pale Moonlight is the best ST episode i have seen.)
Oh, just because the Cylons and Borg are in an alliance doesn't preclude Cylons or Borg drones being on each others' ships. If anything, it would be a useful trait; Borg drones on a Cylon ship (though prevented from assimilating technology) would provide enhanced communications and command&control functions within a combined-force fleet of basestars and cubes.
AFAIK that would be 29th century Federation, which is pretty much an unknown and thus unquantifiable. The only things we really know are that 29th Century Federation peeps have a Temporal Prime Directive (likely what instigated the whole "blow up Voyager" stuff) and timeships. Other than that, we know squat.
However, I'll note that it's possible that the timeship sent to take out Voyager may have been sent in order to prevent future pollution of the timeline (by virtue of following the Temporal Prime Directive), and it's likely that if 24th-century UFP tried to use time travel to win a conflict, 29th-century UFP will show and say "you can't do that, suck it up".
The thing is though, that the Borg aren't more machine than human; they're part machine, part organic, but for the most part, they tend to not be human.
However, a Centurion w/ Borg fleshy bits would actually be inferior to the Cylon-standard Centurions, because it has those soft fleshy bits, which constitute a weakness. Centurions are already far and away superior to Borg drones; they have heavy armor plating, built in automatic weapons, and hand-to-hand combat capability that is extremely deadly against an actually militarily competent opponent (the Twelve Colonies).
Centurions are also at least moderately capable on their own, and also fairly quick to respond and move. Unlike Borg drones, which semi-mindlessly walk about slowly and have poor reflexes and very slow reaction time.
Also, AFAIK, the Borg had to use Federation technology, but did not assimilate it. They required Federation expertise to use said Federation technology. It's not unreasonable to think that this would be even more the case when the enemy is pretty much un-assimilatable.
Oh i wasnt referring to how it could effect a canon sci fi war, I just read the whole "you will prove that ..." post where you asked someone for
11. Provide evidence that ST powers have the capability and the political/military clout to take future technology back to combat a foe from the present.
12. Provide evidence that ST powers actually have technological equipment to provide temporal transit, rather than knowing a few "ways" to time travel.which i did, more as an informationBut about the temp prime directive, all fed captains we have seen so far dont see the prime directive, starfleets regulations or even direct orders as something that has to be obeyed if they think theres a good reason to dont.
I have an idea how the Borg have opened these quantum singularity rifts in Space/Time/Dimension barriers.
The Q Continuum.
From the Wikipedia:
"They act indifferently to the affairs of the non-Q beings living in normal space, or in the many dimensions parallel to their own. The Q are a unique race, and they possess many extraordinary, "God-like" powers including the ability to manipulate time, space, matter, and energy."
"And Multi-Universe Crossover Mods"
The Q has given the Borg the technical ability to open these inter-dimensional tunnels. This has made the Borg aware of other realities, full of species to assimilate. In the Star Wars Universe alone there are millions of races, billions of individuals all ready for the Borg to "add the biological and technological distinctiveness of other species to [their] own". They realise the magnitute, an Eternity in the pursuit of perfection. Alliances are formed.....................
Just some Race pictures I've been working on whilst i familiarise myself with Gimp.
In this reality Jean Luc Picard is Locutus of Borg!
The Borg Cylon Alliance.
Has anybody got any audio of Picard as Locutus?
Or point me to a website were i can get some speech recordings.
Theo
Hmm, I like it. Very interesting. However, IMO, it should be instead be "random Q-person #54657845 leaves dimension-portal-opening doohickey laying around, which is then found by the Borg who use it to start giant war(s)".
Has more flavor and less authorial fiat than "Q give Borg tech". It's also more plausible background wise; the few members of the Continuum shown are habitually shown to be fairly irresponsible individuals.
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Picard_Locutus_Sound.aspxAnd the Q as reason for the whole war is a very great Idea, but if only the Borg would have stumbled upon a Qs mess, then it would be "Sins of a multiverse Borg Invasion".
Ah, but it would illustrate the "sins" of the Q because the Q have become so complacent and lax to the point of leaving around their toys for other, less powerful polities/species to pick up and play with.
Which, considering the in-universe nature of the Q, is a very bad thing. It's the Q's fault, because they were irresponsible enough to let this nifty piece of tech lay around where not just anybody, but the Borg of all possibilities, could find it.
Need I say what that makes the Q?
But if thats the story of the mod, how should the galactica guys attack the starwars guys, if the borg are the only one who has the tech for interuniverse travel ?And i dont get it, what would that make the Q ? Pakistani Nuclear Forces in Space ?
It makes the Q stupendously irresponsible, and the entire conflict their (the Q's) fault. Wouldn't you agree that the ultimate faulty party in question would be the Q, since the tech is their's, and they simply left it lying around? I mean, the Borg found it, yeah, but what else would you expect the Borg to do?
Besides, it's also possible that we could say that there's a side effect of the device, in that all the 'verses the Borg open these portals to, a portal also opens in each of these 'verses that connects it too all other 'verses the Borg access.
We'll call it the "Spiderweb effect". Cuz it'd kinda look like a spiderweb, if you made a graphic representation of it.
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