you mean, just like they message you get when they are building a super weapon?

WHAAAT?

hey, DS =/= regular sins.  In ds you can afford to do extravagent things.

Did I have a brain fart on that? 

I got caught up with the Age of Mythology comparison.  But yeah... yeah... I'll just be hiding in the corner. 

They don't at least in single player, gonna assume it will be a big surprise when your phase space detectors pick it up as it moves toward your control of space...

So I was thinking about what abilities the Titan ships might have,  Obviously they're going to be bristling with weapons.  I'm hoping their total output might rest in the 400-600 range.  This puts them a touch above fully upgraded starbases, but with the added benefit of portability. 

Someone already suggested from that concept pic that the TEC Titan might have a portable Novalith Cannon function.  But it is possible that it has another function instead: dedicated starbase busting.  Imagine that thing popping into orbit, taking aim, and dealing 10,000 damage to a starbase.  Any upgraded bases would survive, but not without a big dent.  It would be a perfect combat opener to break through a chokepoint.  It should also have manufacturing facilities onboard.  So even if it is engaged in solo combat, it would be able to spit out Hoshi or Cielo cruisers to effect repairs during combat.  Alternatively, spitting out Arcovas to clear any mine fields that lay in front.

Then I started thinking about the concepts behind the Vasari and what their Titan might be able to do.  I came up with the Phase Stabilization Calculator.  Basically a massive computer system that is capable of stabilizing phase space on its own for specific jump distances.  In short, it would allow the Titan to jump to any gravity well that is two phase lanes away as if the locations were connected by Phase Stabilizers.  Of course the Titan would benefit from Phase Tunneling research as well.  This would have serious implications, as it means the Vasari Titan could simply bypass a chokepoint with the Titan.  It would also make it far faster than anything else in the game.  To balance it out, the Vasari Titan might be a bit more fragile than those of the other races.  But it would also be able to coordinate joint strikes to attack the opponent in several spots at once.  Do they go for the Titan, which is blasting a trade heavy world to bits, or the Vasari's main fleet, which is busily sending swarm after swarm of phase missiles at the enemy's front door. 

That leaves the Advent Titan.  Why change what the Advent are already known for?  It would first add 30.0 cultural output for any gravity well where it is present: basically having three cultural centers contained onboard.  This would allow it to overpower enemy culture and allow the Advent to fight with their own cutural bonuses.  It would also host two dozen strikecraft squadrons, which would in turn benefit from having a capital ship nearby with Concentration Aura.  This Titan basically becomes the heart of the already fearsome late game Advent fleet.  Together with the rest of the Advent ships, it would wash into enemy territory like a tidal wave, sweeping everything clean as it goes.

Just some fun stabs in the dark at what the Titans might be able to do. 

I LOVE your ideas for the TEC and Vasari titans. But not the uber-strikecraft-swarminess of the Advent titan idea you put forth.

Mostly because I think that 24 SC squadrons is more than a bit OTT. Now, if it could put out the same number as an Advent SB (or maybe 1-2 squadrons more), that wouldn't be out of line IMO.

This would fit with both the TEC and the Vasari. Here's why:

TEC: come on, a giant mobile shipyard bristling with weapons? That's pretty much what an Argonev is, minus the mobile part. It would be a perfect accompaniment to the TEC lineup, and really fits the theme of the TEC: overwhelming the enemy with massive numbers if nothing else.

Vasari: it fits with the Vasari because of the "mobile" nature of a mobile shipyard. The Vasari have been on the run for a long time, and it makes a modicum of sense that they'd build some kind of mobile shipyard for building replacements or overhauling old ships.

Ludicrously expensive.  Even ignoring the fact that this starbase would almost invariably have other upgrades (at very least 1 hull so it won't be destroyed in the blink of an eye), that's already well beyond the cost of two superweapons.

Will almost never happen in multiplayer.

Making titans into super-carriers seems like a waste to me.  We already have the ability to build large formations of carriers and deploy hundreds of squads of strike craft.  That doesn't bring anything new to the game.

Personally, I want to see Titans act as counter-measures to some of the more overwhelming late-game combos, such as tightly pacted defenses and fleets, and swarms of strike craft.  However, I do not want them to completely dominate and be game-enders.  I think that such a design is possible, but it's going to take careful work and avoiding the trap of just making them "really big units".  They should be something more than just attack-move game-enders, offering a way to take initiative and break the toughest of deadlocks without being immune to counter-attack.

In that respect, I think the best approach is that Titans can be boosted temporarily to give them the power to cut through specific challenges, but because these bonuses are temporary and must be prepared ahead of time they can be taken down in a counter-attack.  This puts more emphasis on initiative, which is difficult to take in the late-game when the map is littered by starbases.

Fair enough.

Compare them against the low-end stuff like the Antorak or Kol and then yes they're quite powerful.  Compare them against the high-end stuff like Progenitor and Skirantra, and it's another matter entirely.  As I've stated countless times before, I believe the Halcyon is golden standard against which to balance other capital ships.  The Halcyon does overshadow the majority of the roster by a considerable margin, and the problem is more that the other capital ships are too weak. 

You see motherships every so often in 3v3 and 4v4, where their relative benefit starts to pay off on bigger maps and larger teams.  I'd agree that they're a joke in 1v1 for the most part, though.

This is true, and it's actually not hard to get level 5 or 6 in the mid-late game.  However, pushing above level 7 remains extremely difficult due to the exponential rise in experience requirements to level up, and you're better off raising multiple capital ships at this point.  Even then, we're talking one Halcyon at a point in the game where 20 or 30 carriers isn't unheardof.

Agreed, six squadrons is very reasonable for a Halcyon (you can do it easily by level 3, actually).  However, that's the same amount you get from two drone hosts, which cost approximately 80% as much as a level 1 Halcyon.  When it comes to sheer numbers, carrier cruisers are by far the most cost-effective choice.  This is my point; we already have a great way to get huge masses of strike craft from the carrier cruiser.

I could go for that, although double may be pushing it. 

I still think the best way to make capital ships scale, however, is to boost their move speed.  Keep carrier capital ships the same (since they already can contribute while kiting and keeping their distance) and push up the move speeds of the other classes.  This would better let them put distance between them and an attacker to escape focus fire, and since they'd be better at escaping FF you'd have an easier time using them in battle without having to retreat on a twitch reflex if a large group of LRF looks at you the wrong way.

I'm not going to argue it's balanced, since I was pulling ballpark numbers out of a hat.  However, the limiting factor for this ability was area of effect at 3000.  This is the same area of effect as level 1 shield regeneration on the Progen, so you have to get in really close to the enemy fleet to do this.

Actually, checking back, I forgot to give this ability an antimatter cost.  Thanks for the catch; I've assigned it 90 antimatter per use.

In an ideal case, the platform is capable of healing 9000/22500/42000 hull points.  That presumes you have some tech sunk in antimatter regeneration upgrades, and there are lots of injured targets to heal.  By comparison, the Skirantra's repair cloud will heal 200/250/300 per target.  To match this, it requires 45/90/140 targets.  So in terms of sheer efficiency, the platform is definitely the winner.  This is what it was designed to be, an anti-matter efficient source of repairs.  However, in terms of short-term "burst" healing, its effect takes longer and isn't as potent on any single target.  You're probably right that this is too far on the strong side, and as I said I'm not arguing its balanced, just a ballpark number.

The problem isn't that bombers are difficult to kill, but rather that they are likely to kill you before being taken down themselves.  Their sheer shock power when in sufficient numbers is absolutely crazy. 

Flak Burst is fine once you're level 5, but having to reach level 5 just to become competent isn't exactly the sign of a good capital ship choice...

So... if we nerfed SC... then performance would be better?

 

Ah, but with normal size stock-Sins fleets, presumably, there is a performance boost.

Everyone is so worried about balance...I'm just worried about pathing