Purpose of the mod:
This mod addresses widespread errors in the TotA TechTree.xml files. These errors pretty much broke many of the unique TechTrees, causing the AI to pursue a deeply flawed research strategy and outright preventing the research of many techs. Part of the fix included rearranging a number of the TechTrees to fix the seemingly random arrangement of some techs and reduce the number of branches for the AI to get sidetracked on. Along the way, I ended up fixing many UP issues, planetary improvements, starbase modules, and did some general improvement and balancing on individual techs.
This mod is a direct result of MarvinKosh's Space Weapons Fix Mod, which provided the inspiration. A lot of my development commentary and good input from other modders working on their own fixes is in that topic. Thanks MarvinKosh, Quaternus, deweyjohn, TOV, foxthree, qrtxian and all others for input and support.
05-10-13: v3.51 release
Update to fix some errors in v3.5.
04-28-13: v3.5 release
Here it is, the more or less finished product after all this time. It's been about a year since I put this project down, so I'm a bit fuzzy on what exactly I did before coming back to finish it up. I'm pretty sure I've got the major things nailed down, though. Let's see:
TechTree Fix v3.51 with Dumb Old Minors: I did nothing to the minor races here. If you want the same dumb minors you've always known and loved, this is the mod for you.
TechTree Fix v3.51 with Smart Old Minors: Same old minors that still won't colonize, but I added code to make them play to the best of the AI's ability. I gave them respectable descriptions, modest bonuses, and changed out the silly race images to reflect their upgrade. Since they can't colonize, they'll send out a bunch of freighters and actually send constructors to grab up a lot of the resources while the majors are still colonizing. They still get slaughtered when it comes down to it, but I've had fun watching them. It's also interesting to see the majors make a ton of regular starbases since there are fewer resources to grab.
TechTree Fix v3.51 with MoOII Minors: The MoOII minors in this mod will colonize and behave pretty much like weak majors. Much larger than the other mods due to the RaceImage and RaceLogo files. If you try this mod, remember to use the "quick save fix". That is, the minors won't start behaving like majors until you save and reload. So, start your game, quicksave, reload, and enjoy.
TechTree Fix v3.51 with MoOII and Smart Old Minors: Why not? If you want a little variety, I packaged up both versions of the minors in one mod. Your minors could be one, the other, or a mix of both. Still be sure to use the quick-save fix, or your MoOII minors won't play nice. I haven't tested this arrangement, but I can't see why it won't work. (famous last words.)
03-04-12: v3.0 Release
v3.0 continues the work, this time focusing on starbase modules and planetary improvements, particularly Galactic Achievements, Super Projects, and Trade Goods. Also included is a wonderful conversation mod, kindly contributed by qrtxian. His mod fixes the errors in the GC2_Conversations.xml, so now you can enjoy all the unique dialogue as intended.
Highlights
I think that's most of it. Without further ado, here it is:
TechTree Fix v3.0 with Dumb Old Minors: I did nothing to the minor races here. If you want the same dumb minors you've always known and loved, this is the mod for you.
TechTree Fix v3.0 with Smart Old Minors: Same old minors that still won't colonize, but I added code to make them play to the best of the AI's ability. I gave them respectable descriptions, modest bonuses, and changed out the silly race images to reflect their upgrade. Since they can't colonize, they'll send out a bunch of freighters and actually send constructors to grab up a lot of the resources while the majors are still colonizing. They still get slaughtered when it comes down to it, but I've had fun watching them. It's also interesting to see the majors make a ton of regular starbases since there are fewer resources to grab.
TechTree Fix v3.0 with MoOII Minors: The MoOII minors in this mod will colonize and behave pretty much like weak majors. Much larger than the other mods due to the RaceImage and RaceLogo files. If you try this mod, remember to use the "quick save fix". That is, the minors won't start behaving like majors until you save and reload. So, start your game, quicksave, reload, and enjoy.
TechTree Fix v3.0 with MoOII and Smart Old Minors: Why not? If you want a little variety, I packaged up both versions of the minors in one mod. Your minors could be one, the other, or a mix of both. Still be sure to use the quick-save fix, or your MoOII minors won't play nice. I haven't tested this arrangement, but I can't see why it won't work. (famous last words.)
Update 01-07-12: v2 Release
After nearly a year, here it finally is. Details can be found in this post.
v1.1 Notes:
Yes, that's the likely cause. Once the empires are set on the right personality though, you don't need to change them.
Thanks for helping out, MarvinKosh. I guess I'll have to include a RaceConfig.xml in the standalone mod, too.
Still need verification on this one, but I don't think mods affect the campaign at all. Beyond that, I think Brad or another poster here commented once that you should play the campaigns with their respective games. Otherwise, you'll encounter some problems. So, if you play the Dark Avatar campaign with Dark Avatar, you won't have any issue with my mod.
Correct - while I don't know how much of a difference it makes to play the DA campaign on TA, playing the original Dread Lords campaign on either expansion causes a great deal of bugs and general balance issues (mostly related to the revamped combat system).
Mods do affect the campaigns, though, or at least they do custom campaigns.
Hi Tolmekian,
Have you considered a Master of Orion Mod for TotA?
Yes. Yes I have. I've done some daydreaming and even some outlining of unique MOOII tech trees. Trouble is, I'm terrible at that kind of stuff. Eventually I may play around with it, but I do intend to release a v2.0 of this mod before I move on. I'm slowly getting back into it, and as fall and winter move in I'll have more time stuck indoors to spend.
Hey there Tolmekian,
Just registered here to say thank you. The mod worked great in my last game, an Immense Map with 9 Major Races and 8 Minor Races. I can also agree with you on what you did to the Tech-tree, I'm not missing the top-tier weapons.
To be honest all of the races did pretty well at the start, and with the quicksave trick the Minors colonized and held their own fairly well. Ironically it was the Krynn in the end that eleminated most of the other races, they simply ended up massively placing spy's onto the race they were at war with, which really crippled their production rates. Only because I ended up placing a Counter Espionage Center on each of my planets I was able to keep going without worrying about their spies.
They literally bombarded the other races with troop transports, quite interesting since normally the Krynn in my games ended up getting wiped out pretty early. They ended up lacking at the technology part, whereas I ended up building a bunch of ridiculously expensive battleships. But all in all one of the most balanced games I've yet played.
The strangest was still seeing the Drengin actually doing well for a change and Iconians actually build stuff on their planets, Iconians also did very well technology wise. And to be quite honest I've not really had much of a challenge before this, probably the first time I actually had to fend off troop transports from my planets and barely holding on. Another funny thing was that the Thalan's got annihilated at the start by three of the minor races (Elerians, Silicoids and Darloks)
I've mixed the AI's with both 8 and 11, they seem to both work fairly well. Krynn in my case was 11. I've Replaced Altarians with my own race, own conversations, own tech-tree (history's), improvements and it all works great. I will probably change the minor races around a little to my own preference, while they work great now I feel the portraits and such don't really fit, also adding unique racemusic to each one of them will add some flavor.
Shame on me for not replying earlier. It's great to hear feedback like yours, muilezel666. Hearing about the Thalans getting it from a band of minors sure is nice. My heart is in finishing up v2.0, even if I haven't done a heck of a lot of work lately. It's mostly done, really, except that the evil races need some tweaking for increased competitiveness. That'll take plenty of playtesting, which is the big time-sink of the whole affair.
Just a heads up. There are big time issues with the military section of the tech trees. It's impossible to advance down the beam weapons path since the tech Beam Weapon Theory is missing and Laser I depends on it. This happens with both the normal and the colonizing minors versions.
Hello Tolmekian,
I've tried out your mod with colonizing minors this weekend and I love it. I'm actually planning on allying with the Iconians in my current game! Downright bizarre!
I also did some AI vs AI setups and was very happy to see each and everyone of them try to expand and build up their civilization.
A question. What is the major difference behaviour wise between AIP11 vs AIP8?
Regards,
M.A.
I'm not sure if it has anything to do with this mod or not, but I was playing a game with it and noticed that the AI was overvaluing techs and not trading them, giving the "Sorry, <x> tech is far too valuable for us to trade at any reasonable price." message. Every AI was doing this for even the most basic low value techs. I ran an unmodded game for a bit and found that the AIs were much more willing to reasonably trade techs. My question is, have you done anything that might alter how much the AI values the techs? I admit it could just be my own perception. I'd have to test some more to make sure but that would take a great deal of time.
wolfhound-22,
Judging from Tolmekian's change log, most of the AIValues have been increased but this should also increase the perceived offer.
I think this is mostly due to the fact that the AI now actually researches "yellow" technology early on.
I'm just about to take this mod for a spin, and it looks excellent... thank you for your work!
I have one question. It looks like you've removed the PoliticalParties tag in raceconfig.xml, except for minor races. Looks like this will result in each major race getting a random political party. Is this deliberate? It would look pretty weird to have the Korath led by the Pacifists. edit: Never mind, just looked in the default raceconfig.xml and realized that you didn't change anything at all! My mistake.
After a lot of testing I've found a method that seems to entice AIP8 to research Extreme Colonization without setting it's AIV to an insane value. Setting ECs category to Biology rather than Colonization seems to do the trick. Interestingly enough AIP11 seems oblivious to this change. AIP11 remains a lot more eager to research EC but AIP8 is no longer totally lagging behind.
I also applied the Biology category to Enhanced Adaptation in the Torian techtree and this had the same result and sure enough the torians were colonizing Aquatic worlds in no time.
Also found two bugs:
In the Drath weapon tree, a <Weapon> tag is not properly closed.
There are two entries in TechTree for Sub-Space Drive
MA
If you're referring to the diplo bonuses that such techs bring, I have this issue even when at a diplomatic advantage. An example of how egregious this is: An AI that I have a diplo advantage over and that is on friendly terms for me won't take Arena of Agony (and they have the same tech tree), a somewhat higher level tech in exchange for the base-level Xeno Biology. "We worked hard to get Xeno Biology." I love everything else about this mod but I feel I may as well turn tech trading off, which is a shame since its a rather enjoyable aspect of the game for me.
Hmmm,
Well I did a quick check and I think it's an issue with the new AI values that Tol tweaked to get the AI to research things in a proper order. Here's what I think is happening.
Xeno Biology has an AI value of 55, Arena of Agony has one of 36. So yeah, the AI thinks you're trying to rob it.
I can confirm that even in the unmodded game, getting the AI to trade certain techs (Xeno Biology among them) is like pulling teeth, so this is not a problem with the mod, though it's possible some of the AI values have been tweaked.
Interestingly enough it seems like this for almost every tech. Strangely, it seems the AI is more willing to trade weapons techs than any of the others such as xeno engineering, et. al.
Judging from the change long, many, many AIVs have been increased so it could be that this is why the AI values so many techs so much. I've have a sneaking suspicion that the AIV is not linear or that the AI has some internal thresholds which dictate if a tech is valuable or extremely valuable once it passes a certain limit. I'm doing some testing to confirm this atm but it's slow going.
Back with some test results,
Did some testing with trading techs. I created a two techtrees with a whole bunch of techs set to AIV 1 through 30 then 50,60,70,80,100. Next I set up two custom races in a tiny map and started trading techs to see what happened. Here's what I found out.
From AIV 1 to 20 then AI will trade 1 tech for 1 tech with you without giving you to much trouble. Depending on which way the diplomacy pendulum swings you'll need to offer a slightly more valuable tech say a AIV 25 tech to get an AIV20.
For techs above 20 and 25 the AI will demand more, usually this means you need to trade two techs or more. Say a 25 + 1 tech will usually do the trick.
When get techs at AIV26 or higher the AI will give you the 'Forget it' speech yadada, tactical advantage, etc. In order to get a lvl 26 tech or above you will need to make a really, really high offer.
Here's where it gets crazy. When you OFFER a AIV26 tech or higher the AI will not trade you for it even if you demand a AIV1 tech. You have to combine it with another tech to make a deal.
I only had a few hours to play around with this so this is all I could figure out for now. Unfortunately my findings confirm my suspicions about trading in this mod. Many of the AIVs have been increased over AIV25 so the AI will demand an arm and a leg for each of them. Like pulling teeth as qrtxian said.
I haven't toyed with how categories and research costs factor into this but I wouldn't be surprised if that made things even more complicated.
Hello all.
Sorry to be unresponsive, but I've been away from the game for a while. Those folks still waiting on my AAR post are most aware of this, I guess.
Thanks a lot for all the testing and feedback. One of the drawbacks of my playtesting is that it was entirely done by watching various AIs play against each other. I've done essentially zero actual human testing of the mod due to the time it would take to do so. Things like the difficulty trading are obviously a bit difficult to observe the way I did it. I do recall that the AIValue does affect willingness to trade.
In the v2 mod I went through and removed all the WillingnessToTrade modifiers because I didn't like the outrageous prices being asked for some techs. Of course, I haven't been able to completely test that, either. I wonder if you could actually make the AI more willing to trade.
MabusAltarn - I tried the Biology vs Colonization fix as well, but ultimately decided to let the AI8s deal with it in their own way. If they're supposed to eschew colonization in favor of whatever else they want to do, then fine. They eventually get around to researching colonization techs. AI8s end up being military monsters and the bullies on the block, anyway. They don't need much help, other than vast improvement of the horrible way they conduct war. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do for that.
I have to say, that after working to fix the unfinished and heavily bugged things that I could work on, I'm left a bit . . . appalled at the AI itself. Target prioritization, fleet maneuver, and transport destination/handling are terrible. I tend to forget that the game was released in 2003 and was made to work on run-of-the-mill 2003 computers.
Anyway, thanks again.
Hey Tol, thanks for the response.
I hope we'll see V2 I'm curious to test it actually. About willingness to trade (WTT). My testing showed that a tech with a high WTT can be traded much more favourably. So it's basically a modifer for the AI value when it comes to trading. Also, WTT only appies to a tech when you're trying to get it. A High WTT will not lower the perceived value of the offer.
Here's some others things I've worked out:
Techs that are deeper into the techtree are worth more to the AI when trading.
Not all categories are born equally the AI well demand more valuable techs for say weapons. Going to research this a bit deeper.
Research Cost is also factored in. At equal AI value the tech with the highest cost is still regared as superior trade material.
How all of this related to prioritizing research is something I don't know but I intend to find out.
All this talk got me going. Believe it or not, I'm ready to release v2. I learned something very . . . strange while finishing up. I had some trouble getting the Korx to "accept" some changes, so as a last resort I wiped out all the RaceConfig files that pop up in the ". . .\My Documents\My Games" folder. After doing that the Korx took the changes, and during playtesting the other evil races finally started rocking. I have no idea why those little RaceConfig files would prevent the game from using changes that aren't apparently affected by the RaceConfig, but I would recommend deleting them regularly - and certainly when installing a new mod.
Anyway, I have one last little bit of tweaking to do, then I'll get to work on posting it.
Tolmekian,
Excelent! I look forward to it. Strage that those *.RACECONFIGXML files would be the cause of so much grief.
Alt.
Slight hiccup. Seems my starbase modules aren't lining up quite right. Specifically, everything requiring Battle Stations is available even without them. Seems to be a bona fide bug, as the coding is correct. Couldn't solve the issue last night, but it seems to have something to do with Battle Stations being the first module on the list.
While I'm at it, I want to do some finishing work on the starbase modules. Nothing big, but one idea I had was to put the module requirement in the description so you know exactly how to get the modules you want.
Should be done by the end of the week.
Problem solved. Now it's just cosmetic issues.
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