Purpose of the mod:
This mod addresses widespread errors in the TotA TechTree.xml files. These errors pretty much broke many of the unique TechTrees, causing the AI to pursue a deeply flawed research strategy and outright preventing the research of many techs. Part of the fix included rearranging a number of the TechTrees to fix the seemingly random arrangement of some techs and reduce the number of branches for the AI to get sidetracked on. Along the way, I ended up fixing many UP issues, planetary improvements, starbase modules, and did some general improvement and balancing on individual techs.
This mod is a direct result of MarvinKosh's Space Weapons Fix Mod, which provided the inspiration. A lot of my development commentary and good input from other modders working on their own fixes is in that topic. Thanks MarvinKosh, Quaternus, deweyjohn, TOV, foxthree, qrtxian and all others for input and support.
05-10-13: v3.51 release
Update to fix some errors in v3.5.
04-28-13: v3.5 release
Here it is, the more or less finished product after all this time. It's been about a year since I put this project down, so I'm a bit fuzzy on what exactly I did before coming back to finish it up. I'm pretty sure I've got the major things nailed down, though. Let's see:
TechTree Fix v3.51 with Dumb Old Minors: I did nothing to the minor races here. If you want the same dumb minors you've always known and loved, this is the mod for you.
TechTree Fix v3.51 with Smart Old Minors: Same old minors that still won't colonize, but I added code to make them play to the best of the AI's ability. I gave them respectable descriptions, modest bonuses, and changed out the silly race images to reflect their upgrade. Since they can't colonize, they'll send out a bunch of freighters and actually send constructors to grab up a lot of the resources while the majors are still colonizing. They still get slaughtered when it comes down to it, but I've had fun watching them. It's also interesting to see the majors make a ton of regular starbases since there are fewer resources to grab.
TechTree Fix v3.51 with MoOII Minors: The MoOII minors in this mod will colonize and behave pretty much like weak majors. Much larger than the other mods due to the RaceImage and RaceLogo files. If you try this mod, remember to use the "quick save fix". That is, the minors won't start behaving like majors until you save and reload. So, start your game, quicksave, reload, and enjoy.
TechTree Fix v3.51 with MoOII and Smart Old Minors: Why not? If you want a little variety, I packaged up both versions of the minors in one mod. Your minors could be one, the other, or a mix of both. Still be sure to use the quick-save fix, or your MoOII minors won't play nice. I haven't tested this arrangement, but I can't see why it won't work. (famous last words.)
03-04-12: v3.0 Release
v3.0 continues the work, this time focusing on starbase modules and planetary improvements, particularly Galactic Achievements, Super Projects, and Trade Goods. Also included is a wonderful conversation mod, kindly contributed by qrtxian. His mod fixes the errors in the GC2_Conversations.xml, so now you can enjoy all the unique dialogue as intended.
Highlights
I think that's most of it. Without further ado, here it is:
TechTree Fix v3.0 with Dumb Old Minors: I did nothing to the minor races here. If you want the same dumb minors you've always known and loved, this is the mod for you.
TechTree Fix v3.0 with Smart Old Minors: Same old minors that still won't colonize, but I added code to make them play to the best of the AI's ability. I gave them respectable descriptions, modest bonuses, and changed out the silly race images to reflect their upgrade. Since they can't colonize, they'll send out a bunch of freighters and actually send constructors to grab up a lot of the resources while the majors are still colonizing. They still get slaughtered when it comes down to it, but I've had fun watching them. It's also interesting to see the majors make a ton of regular starbases since there are fewer resources to grab.
TechTree Fix v3.0 with MoOII Minors: The MoOII minors in this mod will colonize and behave pretty much like weak majors. Much larger than the other mods due to the RaceImage and RaceLogo files. If you try this mod, remember to use the "quick save fix". That is, the minors won't start behaving like majors until you save and reload. So, start your game, quicksave, reload, and enjoy.
TechTree Fix v3.0 with MoOII and Smart Old Minors: Why not? If you want a little variety, I packaged up both versions of the minors in one mod. Your minors could be one, the other, or a mix of both. Still be sure to use the quick-save fix, or your MoOII minors won't play nice. I haven't tested this arrangement, but I can't see why it won't work. (famous last words.)
Update 01-07-12: v2 Release
After nearly a year, here it finally is. Details can be found in this post.
v1.1 Notes:
Stardock released a new game, that's why I have a new avatar.
*crickets chirp*
It's good to have you back.
I just started a new game as Thalan (using your 3.0). I'd like to know how the Hyperion Matrix is such a huge advantage. After the HM, the Thalan can't build *any* production facilities until he plows through several months of research. After that, the Thalan is behind and the HM is just a big factory/lab.
Currently I'm sitting here with a single new colony that can't build anything and a home world that builds one Colony Ship every 7 weeks. Meanwhile, the Drath next door in 5 weeks built 5 CS, two factories, and a lab and still had 90% of their original treasury. So who has the advantage?
N.b. that I haven't played a year yet and I'm surely missing something. I'd just like to know what it is.
Welcome back. So when do we get 4.0, eh ?
Well, the Thalans always seem to be monsters in the early game, and their advantage tends to stick around. I haven't tested it yet, but my best guess is that the Hyperion Matrix is what does it for them. Don't know quite yet how I'd reconcile their lack of any other improvements, but I guess I'd have to do something.
Timeline for the next release? After the holidays, for sure. Maybe late January or February. Most of the work is done, like I said. Mostly I'd be looking at the Thalans and Torians and remembering what I did and convincing myself that it really is ready to go.
And that should be that. After that, I'm playing a game, dammit.
I'm pretty sure the Torians' early-game (and middle-and-late-game, for that matter) edge comes from their overwhelmingly powerful Super Ability, not the Central Mine.
I tended to find in my mod that when I made the Central Mine more powerful it did magnify the Torians' ability to colony rush. I was using Terran AI with them, and it tends to tax really hard which negates the Torian special ability for many of their colonies. On the other hand it is really good at building up their planets so, eh.
Most of my experience is in DL. At suicidal levels the Thalans do indeed become monsters, and a serious challenge to the human player (which is good, I suppose) in the mid-game. I rarely encounter them very early so it's hard to say what they're like then.
Their production goes off the charts, and I can't figure out why. I see no remarkable numbers like Economy +500%. If I take over their AI, the economy and research drop back to expected levels. So I have to conclude that there is something hard coded somewhere. Perhaps it has carried over to TA.
The Torians can sometimes be trouble, but not like the Thalans. They just do a good job expanding, then get all righteous on your ass.
Maybe I should get a degree in xeno-psychology, what?
If I remember right, the Thalans have racial bonuses to production. That could definitely explain why they become such a manufacturing powerhouse.
The text says they "have an advantage when building factories". Their factories are relatively cheap for the output, but until you get to high tech levels the maintenance costs are killers. Like 12 mp yield, 15 maint. oog! At high tech levels they are about the same as Industrial Sectors. Labs are similar.
My current game the start was awful. I was only able to expand because I managed to trade for Traditional Factory and Research Lab, something that doesn't really fit with the Thalan story line.
Tolmekian, did you make tech trading really difficult? or are the soft ones repelled by my insectoid appearance?
Uh, actually I thought the Thalan factories started out being expensive to maintain and become cheaper to run without changing output at all.
AIValue increases how much the AI wants for a particular tech. It also influences their research strategy.
Yes. Level 1 is 12 mp for 15; L2 is 12 for 10. Labs similar. Don't have L3 yet - they are very expensive to research.
It is Aug 2230, Painful, Huge, Slow and I'm just getting around to putting a second Manufacturing Matrix on most of my worlds. I don't think I can use this game much, though, for evaluation since Tourism went nuts about a year ago and then at a UP meeting it was voted to "open up tourism", whatever that means. So right now my Tourism income is 4 times my tax income at 25%. Never seen anything like this before. Where are all these tourists coming from, Japan?
Uh, both? Regular bathing wouldn't hurt, either.
I didn't mean to make tech trading difficult, but it's an unfortunate side effect of how I fixed the AI research pattern. By increasing the AIValue to make the AI research in a decent way, I made them value the technology more in monetary terms as well.
A quick review of my change log reminds me of just how much work I actually did before walking away. No wonder I pretty much burned out and disappeared. Fortunately, I did actually wrap up what I was doing instead of walking away from a project half finished. That makes coming back a lot easier. It also means that I am basically ready to release what I have done, after a quick check-up. That way I can get feedback while I work on the final touches. I think I'm expecting complaints, but c'est la vie. Off the top of my head:
- Total rework of population and how farms work
- Total revision and balance of all different manufacturing, research, and morale improvements.
- Extreme Colonization reduced to just one tech for each planet type (no more advanced colonization)
- Added government and planetary defense techs to all tech trees. I remember wanting to give them each unique government types and descriptions, but apparently I didn't get that far.
- Yet more tweaking of values and fixing of issue and refining of details
- Lots of work to shore up deficiencies in the evil races tech trees (I think they're finally competitive now)
Let's see if I can run a test game and see how things fly. If things are where I think they are, I anticipate release v3.x in the next few weeks.
Mars, actually. Those little guys with the Roman helmets are running around looking at all the cool places in the galaxy before they perfect their Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator.
A quick review of my change log reminds me of just how much work I actually did before walking away. No wonder I pretty much burned out and disappeared. Fortunately, I did actually wrap up what I was doing instead of walking away from a project half finished. That makes coming back a lot easier. It also means that I am basically ready to release what I have done, after a quick check-up.
*sigh* I'll never catch up with my aesthetics modifications to your mechanical modifications. Good to see you back in action.
"Regular bathing wouldn't hurt, either."
You neglect one of the few side benefits of vacuum. In space, no one can smell you stink.
Here's an idea for a new tech or event: Smell-o-Vision. Transmits odors on a subspace sideband. Effect on Morale is random (and somewhat kinky)
BTW, is there any way to change the skin on this site? X on black is damnably difficult to read.
In space itself, perhaps. But in a little tin can where all air must be recycled? I shudder to think.
...
How did this become a topic, anyway?
For Tolmekian about his 3.0 mod:
* Why change Korx from Super Trader? That's his shtick.
* Is it intentional that Yor tech tree does not contain HyperWarp?
* My Move12 Constructors slow down to Move3 in Yor space. Due to Super Isolationist? Seems like a huge difference. (I'm not 100% sure on the location correlation.)
* Setting the terraforming improvements costs to 0 guts the Neutral alignment. That was its main draw.
* This is new: I was building Tech Capital. Acquired a worthless world with a Tech Capital on it, and the one in my build queue disappeared! That has never happened before. You couldn't select a "redundant" tech, but it never fell out of the queue. Maybe this is what the <AbilityType>0</AbilityType> line prevented? (Just guessing.)
* Your notes do not mention that Galactic Privateer has been removed.
* Observation: Trade Goods are easier trades than minor techs. E.g. AIs absolutely refuse to trade Planetary Improvements, probably because AIValue is now 70. That just doesn't seem right. They'd never been reluctant to research it. Was it because the neo-high AIValue techs got preference?
* "All instances of WillingnessToTrade removed from all techs." Does it not work? Would seem to be the antidote to AIValue inflation.
BTW, I just abandoned the game I was playing as Thalan at Dec 2231. Tourism income is swamping everything else. With taxes set to 0, espionage to max, and spending to 100 I still bank almost 2000 per week. AIs' tourism is proportional by their world counts.
Iconian is researching and building well. Krynn Consulate is doing okay in some research areas, but hasn't even done Xeno Engineering, Basic Logistics, or the infrastructure techs. I'd say he has a problem, symptom of which is that he pumps out reams of fighters.
I'll try another game shortly.
Alright, DMF, let's see what I can do for you:
Because with great power comes great responsibility, which the AI can't handle. In this case, the Super Trader sends out freighters during the colony rush when it should obviously be sending out colony ships. Changing the Korx's SA makes them much more competitive in the colony rush and, as a result, throughout the game.
I can't answer that, because I didn't do it. Or did I? I think the game comes that way.
Yuppers. Super Isolationist caps movement at 3 when moving through their space.
I didn't give them anything to make up for it? Now that's just mean. Bottom line is that the AI doesn't know how to handle terraforming. Having the improvements auto-build after researching the techs means some Ai planets get stuck with 20 or more weeks of nothing but terraforming improvements while there are still open squares that could be used. If the AI grabs a new planet after researching the techs, then they get stuck waiting for all the terraforming before being able to place the first improvement. Total waste.
I think the AbilityType line was just junk code. It's always been my experience that if you capture a Super Project while building your own, your SP in progress will be cancelled.
The GP was removed by Stardock. Another instance of AI-can't-hack-it. The problem was that the AI would send endless fleets after the invincible freighters.
Yes. Raising the AIV on some techs meant I had to go raise it on others to get a balanced approach. This became even trickier with v3.0, because I boosted the AIV of government, diplomacy, culture, and entertainment techs. The end result is a real problem with tech trading.
With respect to my mod, it was unused code. Rather than have it hanging around or, worse, trying to figure out what the developers intended with it, I removed it. Now, if I want to use it, I am starting from the beginning and not mucking around trying to fix someone else's problem. Kinda like I should have done with the AIVs.
I have considered using the Willingness code to address the tech trading problem. It would probably be much easier to make the AI very willing to trade those high AIV techs than it would be to start the AIV balancing work from scratch.
Thanks for your feedback and observations! Let me know how your next game goes.
Hi, first I want so thank you for the effort put into modding the game, I can only try to imagine the work you had put into it.
I am a bit new here (to put it mildly), have been playing your mod for past week or so and really like the way it works.
Only one question - do Drengin have Counter Espionage? I have been playing a custom race with Minor tech tree and now have tried to make another with Drengin tree... got absolutely SWAMPED with spies by at least 3 AIs, 15 or so spies simultaneously (I was military leader in the beginning so probably AIs thought I needed slowing down). I managed to clear the mess up but eventually lost the game... while trying to figure out where is the CEC equivalent in the tech tree
So, does everybody have CEC or just some civs?
No, the Drengin and the Korath don't have Counter Espionage in their tech trees.
Thanks. Seems a bit unfair, since I don't see them as really that powerful.
My take: Counter Espionage isn't all that great. Unless you have way too much time and money, you can't build CECs on all your worlds. They are most useful to protect a few high-value improvements, which you can do with spies. So the antidote to spies is more spies.
Hmm.. Spy vs. Spy. Why does that ring a bell?
" It's always been my experience that if you capture a Super Project while building your own, your SP in progress will be cancelled."
Galactic Achievement, yes. Super Project, no. I've done this a number of times, though that was playing DL and earlier.
Tolmekian: Why not write Brad and ask him how WillingnessToTrade is supposed to work? We haven't corresponded in years, but when we did he was quite forthcoming.
Dunno, I like the economic benefit it gives (at least in the mod). That compensates for the slot used and combined with massive price tag on spies (long term) it is worth it for me.
Building CECs seems to reduce the enemy's willigness to fling spies at your worlds and thus reduces the rate at which you go through spies yourself. You don't have to build them everywhere, though.
Lots of good replies.
1) I made Counter Espionage Centers even less expensive in v3.x, so spreading them around shouldn't be so hard. I forget off hand, but I think my drive to fill out everyone's tech tree included putting Counter Espionage into the Drengin and Korath trees.
2) About WillingnessToTrade, I know what it actually does. What I meant is that I didn't want to take the time to find out the rhyme and reason behind how the developers used it to influence AI tech trading. Given their unfortunate track record on this game, I'd lay good odds that there was no rhyme or reason and that most of the code was just sloppy cut-n-paste duplicates and untested junk.
In that light, I opted to remove it altogether and deal with it at another time.
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