Serak Warriors thinks that the first captain gets dicked over in most 5v5 pugs. Considering that the majority of number lottery winners choose to defer, should we consider a new draft order?
The current draft order is: X-Z-Z-X-X-Z-Z-X
Proposed new order is: X-Z-Z-X-Z-X-X-Z
In the current system the first captain gets 3 of the top 5 but also gets last pick. In the proposed system the 2nd captain gets the 5th pick but also the very last pick. So he also gets the 3 of the top 5 players. Is the proposed pick order more fair? Is the current draft order unfair to the first captain in some sort of a way? Discuss.
If you think of it in terms of four rounds of 2 picks, in the current way the first captain picks first in the 1st round, second in the 2nd round, first in the 3rd round, then last in the 4th round.
In the proposed order the first captain picks first in the 1st round, second in the 2nd round, second in the 3rd round, and first in the 4th round. Is the value of not having the worst player in the pug worth losing the first pick in the third round?
Here are three interesting ideas:
(1.) If the number winner chooses to defer, the first captain (loser) gets to choose one of the two draft orders.
(2.) Number loser gets to choose from one of the two draft orders regardless if the winner goes first or defers.
(3.) First captain gets to choose the draft order regardless of who won or lost?
Maybe Option (1) is our best bet.
If first guy gets diked over second depends on people and their skill in game lobby.
---->If all players same skill he will pick first.
---->If 1 player complete noob and rest pros or medium skilled then he will defer not to get fat boy (if he can grab more pros he might sacrifice 1 slot - fat boy - to get more wining positions that hes team will win on)
---->If one player to choose from is considerably better from rest he will get him and that alone can decide game even if rest on his team ore moderate. Ass long as they can hold and distract for long enough it is probably GG since he got 2 players that are rolling over rest
Those are just a few options but you can apply 1 of them to every picking order you choose and someone will get diked. But Perhaps 1211111 should be best imo as 4th and fifth pick offset for 3rd.
That is if you count captains as 1st and 2nd pick and always best two players in the room cap. But thats why we have smurfing problem. Because most of the time 1st and 2nd best want to be on same team or they just don't want to cap.
Yeah, that sounds pretty accurate.
What you're proposing looks like this:
X-Z-Z-X-Z-X-Z-X
The first captain would really get dicked over since the second captain would have the first pick in three of the four 2-man rounds. The first captain (X) loses picking the 5th best guy in exchange for picking the 6th best and he still gets fat boy.
(What I suggested was to consider 121121.)
I like new order, it should produce more balanced games. Or it WOULD produce more balanced games if ICO wasn't so deserted. Anyway, if sins gets off from the ground with next patch I think we should try to adopt this.
It always depends on the player distribution. If there's one terrible player and everyone else is competent, the last-pick always gets screwed over. If there are three roughly equally-skilled players to choose from, the second pick has an inordinate advantage no matter what you do. I don't think, short of some sort of matching algorithm built into the game, that we can get a one-size-fits-all solution.
Thats what I wanted to say Darvin but kind of clumsily.....
honestly i dont think order matters too much when too many unknown smurfs are present
And seriously when is this not true ?
like a smurf who u think is pro and pick high turns out a sucky player trying to pose as skilled
Me: Are you a smurf?
New name: Yeah.
After losing the game.
Me: I thought you said you were a smurf?
New name: Isn't that what a brand new player is?
It is true most people defer first pick because they don't want the worst player on their team. The other reason people defer is because when you are doing organized smurfing where all the smurfs are on vent, it allows a pretty good chance for the smurfing team to grab the players they want because the guy with first pick will go for known players. The guy with 2nd pick can grab known smurfs in his first round and then grab the unknown smurfs in the last round leaving the known worst player for last pick.
The launch room is kind of a meta game unto itself. It gets even more egregious when you consider that some people crash the launch room when things are not going to their liking.
Maybe I am a bit jaded but when you say organized smurfing the first thing I think of is DT. I always suspected this went on but it is nice to have confirmation. The crashing thing was restricted to a certain few. It doesn't matter how you try to organize a pug the smurfs are going to screw it up or take unfair advantage of it. It is after all the raison d'etre of smurfing.
[_]-Greyfox
Grey u talking like a guy who got kidnaped by smurfs to a smurfship where they did u a lobotomy:P
New system wont change much. All depends of the number of fat kids.
From the sound of your post quar, it sounds as if you were the victim of a lobotomy rather than me.
to me, the order doesn't matter, like someone said, the ideal order changes on a game by game basis. people still complain about smurfing but they do not realize this is the only game where a group of friends can't play together without consistent amounts of bitching. let us play together on our mains and we don't have to smurf, thats all, you don't find this kind of drama any where else. people like you created this monster grey, if i pay money for a video game, i expect to be able to play it with the people i want to play it with. if you have a problem with that, it's fine but know that i will do whatever it is in my power to make sure my friends are on my team.
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Star Player
I don't prevent anyone from playing with anyone else. I don't see how you figure this out that I caused smurfing. I don't cause smurfs to constantly create new names and stack teams. I don't even really host no smurf games and kick out each and every smurf like I would like to. Don't try to move blame for your own behavior onto me. Do you blame the police for crime too? You are responsible for your own actions. I realize you may not be an adult at least in your maturity level but you have to grow up sometime. Sometimes I do get to play with my clan without smurfing. I like playing with my clan too but the difference is I don't act like a child when I do not get what I want. I paid money for this game as well out of my own pocket(which is likely more than you can say star). That does not grant me the ability to act like any kind of jackass I want. I am fully aware that you will continue to do what is in your power to stack teams and crash games if it doesn't turn out your way, star. I am pretty sure cykur was referring at least partially to you in his post. I KNOW I was. I cannot control what you do nor am I responsible for your behavior. You would have been kicked from my clan if you had even been admitted into it because you are a jackass and an immature child. I don't put up with that kind of crap. DT never took responsibilty for its members even when it had them so be glad you had a place with them.
so you wont play unless teams are stacked ?
typical DT
i don't want to play with stacked teams, but because after 2 years the community still can't compete with us we have no choice. No one is stopping you from becoming a good player, play games, watch replays, it doesn't take much time/effort to become one. I play a game or two a week and not much else is required to become good if you learn from your mistakes. Instead of whining about us being team stackers, just come out and beat us, we're always open for any formal challenges if you get a team together. We're not unreasonable, we're just like any other clan in any other game, we like to play as a clan.
Do you know why your logic is faulty? When the USMC and US Army goes into Iraq, should they split up the Army onto both sides so the Taliban has a chance? Cause the teams are pretty stacked over there, so should we pin Americans against each other for a fair fight? Should the British have fought along side the Germans in WW2?
Think about your logic, it is foolish, baseless, and childish.
Yes, it is typical DT. They are cowards that have no pride in their clan.
This is a game. It isn't a real war. Your analogy is totally wrong. Games between people are generally supposed to have equal footing. You don't start playing chess with half the pieces missing and your king in check. The idea is not to have an innate advantage over another person so that it can be skill, intelligence or finesse to win the game. So you don't want to play stacked teams but everyone else supposedly sucks so bad you have no choice. Gotcha. It is again typical DT BS to cover up cowardice. If you have no faith in all the other players and think they suck then start bringing your actual tagged names and do 4v5 or 4v6. When DT actually had balls they did that a lot(IE before you joined star). Now the clan doesn't even exist anymore. It is kinda sad to have only 1 clan in existence for the past year +.
star, if you want to play with your clan mates, that's absolutely fine. Why don't you guys just play on your real accounts instead of smurfing?
Would any of you be happy in a game where you are fighting 5 DT members? I know i wouldn't unless I pretty much had the 4 best non DT members as allies.
Putting that aside we (players with lots of ICO experience) all know that DT like to stack the teams whether that's because they like to win or play with clan mates is hard to tell maybe a little (alot) of both.
Actually, in response to you and ghost, we try to play on our tags from time to time.
The last 2 times we tried ended in 1 hour of waiting but no game. We tried a 4v5, 4v6, hell even a 3v7, but no one would let us play together. We don't mind playing against the grain, as long as we're together. But when we all tag up, its rare for us ever to get a game started, never mind finished.
I played several games tonight with 4 BIA on tags on the same team. You can do so as well but you choose not to but rather smurf instead. Your excuses are flimsy.
Teams also have to be as balanced as possible, and this is the key issue. Sometimes that means that every single DT member can't play with each other every time. If teams were balanced and DT were all together on one side then I wouldn't mind. But if it is clear that games are stacked in DT favour then that's another thing entirely, with smurfing further compounding the problem. And more often than not, DT are notorious for both these things. Other clans, on the other hand, like BIA, {SB} and I~ smurf or stack far less frequently than DT does, which is why DT is simply not respected anymore. Smurfing probably is also the reason why DT doesn't exist as a clan anymore, whereas players who don't smurf have actually prolonged their clans to this day.
Yeah, but no one cares when 4 BIA play together because you guys are easily beatable. Your logic is flimsy .
Hmm, interesting choice of words, "does not exist as a clan anymore". We play SC2, World of Tanks, Sins, have a dedicated Teasmpeak, forums and we keep in touch with our clan members outside of the game room.
I'm talking about the manner in which the majority of DT choose to play Sins online, and am not referring to other games/activities (whether X-rated or not) DT may indulge in. Relative to other clans, seeing someone wearing a DT tag these days is almost like spotting UFO. Hence, it is quite reasonable for me to say that as far as Sins Multiplayer is concerned, DT is virtually non-existent and come on once in a blue moon (probably a holy sins day for the DT calendar).
Do DT players actually play on different teams in pugs? Because the game is pug not DT vs so why wouldn't they play on different teams?
Gaping Vagina
Because they know each others smurfs and they know who to pick........
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