As it stands now Elemental is nothing special when it comes to battles. Really, I had more fun with battles in Age of Wonders or Master of Magic. Age of Wonders had blood and great sounds/music, Master of Magic had speed and crisp graphics for it's time. It just fit well, you know? Anyway, as impressed as I am so far with Elemental's progress on its core system -- particularly the city building aspect -- I'm just disappointed by the battles. It feels thrown-in and unfinished, and needs to be fixed badly. Here are my main concerns;
1. Sound - I have a serious problem with the sound... When I attack something with a Broadsword I expect to hear a loud slash noise, not a dull thunk. Bows have no sound when shot either, the voices SUCK, and some creatures seem to have voice sets that don't fit with their type of creature (this may have been fixed in an earlier patch I'm not sure). Some of the sounds like lightning or fire effects are OK, and there is a good slash noise for axes and daggers. But seriously, use some imagination, and get some REAL sounds. Diablo 2 REALLY impressed me because of the solid graphics, but mostly the sound; especially weapons, which all had very good sounds. I want to hear a loud wooden THUNK noise when a staff hits someone, but we don't have that here. Just get a recorder and bang a thick wooden stick on a door or find some organic sounds rather than crappy programmed sounds, please. We want to hear shields blocking blows with loud clangs, swords with great slashing noises, staves with nice loud thunks, and I WANT to hear a dozen archers all firing their bows at once. Get a recorder, a dozen people with longbows and do it yourself, it's simple. We want combat to be EXCITING!
2. Graphics - While not a serious issue, and there are some things I do like, those are mostly restricted to spell effects. I am referring to attacks here. Because most people like to get done with a battle in a reasonable amount of time to get back to world conquering, but still enjoy a good scrap, it's important to make the battles you do fight exciting. Example; Archers. What the hell? Their animation is insanely long and boring if you have multiple archers. All they do is draw their bows back (without even pulling an arrow from their nonexistent quiver) and fire a little white dot, which soars across the screen in a straight line. The speed is solid, but aren't arrows supposed to arc slightly? If you have a 3D setting, you should take advantage of that, and not be restricted to straight lines. It was OK when Master of Magic and Diablo 2 were around, but even Age of Wonders had arcs. It'd just be a nice touch. And when an attack finally does hit its target, we are treated to... a white flash? What I find highly amusing is that this game's ESRB reads; Blood, Fantasy violence. And yet I see no blood. And if you don't have blood in combat, where people are killing each other without mercy, then you shouldn't have blood anywhere. In fact, I don't think blood even exists in this game. I'm not sure if it just doesn't fit on your smooth graphics set or what, but it's something to think about.
3. System - My main concerns in this area are with the outdated battle system. You use a standard fare damage/armor and hit points system, which is fine, but the way its executed feels way too bare with no perks or differences. For example a heavy axe deals damage the same way a sword does, but axes and hammers and such are normally supposed to get through armor a little better. I know you have heavier weapons doing more damage, and treat that as armor piercing because it overwhelms higher defense ratings (where a lighter weapon like a dagger would be useless), but you should add a lot more meat to the system at large. For example, you could have Defense rating simply be your ability to dodge, evade or whatnot, while Armor is only gained from physically wearing armor, or having an armor spell (like Iron Skin) cast on a unit. Armor is actual damage reduction, which blocks a set amount of damage, and will always block that much. Weapons each have their own 'armor penetration' ratings, which dictate how much of that armor rating they will ignore when dealing their damage. For example, a Crossbow would have extreme armor piercing capability due to its high velocity and powerful bolt, same with an axe or heavy weapon. Natural weapons like claws, or a golems fist, or dragon claw would probably have quite a high armor penetration rating. Spells could also affect this rating -- for example;
Telekinetic Weapons - Wraps the weapons of a target unit in telekinetic energy, allowing them to hit with far more force. Raises the Armor Penetration rating of a unit and all within it (if it was a group) by X points for every X points of Intelligence caster possesses. Can only be used on units that can carry weapons.
Telekinetic Barrier - Creates a dampening field around a unit that nullifies X amount of Armor Penetration rating from an attackers weapons, increased for every X points of Intelligence caster possesses.
Note that Armor Penetration is not actual damage, it is just how much armor it ignores when calculating damage.
NOTE: The abovementioned Armor Penetration system is similar to Dragon Age: Origins own combat system, I'm not sure if this is subject to trademark/copyright or not. I'm just making a suggestion to enhance the battle system, and this could work really well, giving a lot more meat to the system and create some more spells.
"Get a recorder, a dozen people with longbows and do it yourself, it's simple."
lol
I forgot to mention; creatures like Golems or Dragons would have high natural armor because of their composition/scales. Even normal creatures like bears might have a bit of defense simply due to their thick leather hide. Humans have to wear armor.
Who cares about the music and the graphic when the system is about clicking 200 times on a target (and the animations are still too slow so that half of the time one clicks for nothing).
Heroes of M&M has a real battle system original and unique: spells have a meaning there, they are all useful, without them you can't outsmart the AI. In comparison the devs of Elemental seem to have put no though at all on their battle system there is nothing to outsmart here because the fight is about clicking over and over with no much strategy to apply.
Combat in E:WoM and especially E:FE has the potential to be a hundred times better then in HoMM.
Umbranoth, Have you ever tried Updated Weapons?
There's been discussion about things like armor that degrades with every hit so that weapons that do the same damage could cause more damage on subsequent hits, things like that.
I'm still rooting for a line of site change to make tactical combat more like Exile or Avernum from Spiderweb Software.
Yeah yeah, "potential" I am a bit tired to hear that word though...
I do agree that gameplay in tactical combat is pretty spoiled at the moment(those who have superior *fire power* and HP\armor will prety likely win the battle,and units with active\passive skills is so damn rare so you could actually found an unit_with_skills reserve park or something).Warfare gameplay that I see now is something like *Research top gear,equip army,destroy neighbor,repeat*.
IMHO any weapon and spells should have it's roles(or pros\cons at least like strong attack but big penalty to counter attack and vise versa or some specific feature like spears hiting units 2 tiles away because of it's length etc.).There could be bigger variety of combat tiles(with bonuses not only to deffence.Tiles with negative effect and such).I would love to see in *unit builder*(i dont really know how to call that thing) an option to give some active skills to units(I do remember about updated weapon mod,many thanks to creators of that mod).*Heroes* could be much more efficient(in tactical combat) in the late game(sending such unit into melee combat vs 12 units squad with 300+ hp and around 200 attack when this humble adventurer have like 100 hp is suicide mission.Give him his own squad or something,or some specified ability with squad as multiplyer.Thus I just dont like when my champions getting killed because I think that they are somehow better then normal troops or have some important role in tactical combat. As far as I can see - not really)...
In short: I dont like battles where numbers choses the winner,I like battles where your superior tactic brings you victory.
P.S. My Engrish skills is to damn low,so sorry for misspelling or some weird sentences.Hope its makes sense.
P.P.S. As good axample of TBS+RPG i would rather choose Eador(I'm not shure is there english version of it though,and graphics are 2d so some people will be simply horrified by the look of it but gameplay is one of the best I've seen in some time)than Heroes of might and magic,since Eador have at least few common features with Elemental:war of magic.
P.P.P.S. I really want that this game evolve into something awesome.But that's just talk for now.
I wish rear attacks meant something. As it is now, if I work my way around enemy units to attack from the rear on the world map, I end up on the battlefield face to face with them and I might not even get the first attack. Shouldn't I be setup behind the enemy with 1st attack plus a large bonus for a surprise rear attack. That way a weaker force could defeat or at least neturalize a much larger force. Of course the same thing could happen to my forces. It would keep you on your toes as to who is wandering around you and which direction they are moving. Just my 2 cents worth......
This is actually an interesting point. There has been a lot of talk on these forums about direction of attack within tactical combat, but I have not heard many actually discuss direction of attack on the strategic map. Honestly though, I feel like this idea is more of an interesting thought experiment than a viable game mechanic. For starters, the amount of work needed to develop this type of directional feature on the combat map would be fairly extensive as well as the added strain placed on the player to face each and every army would make this a dubious proposition. In general, this is just not how most players would assume strategic combat to function. However, adding some additional strategic actions might be interesting and viable. For Instance, If a party had some kind of "make camp" ability wherein they could stop to regain hp, then it would be more interesting to give a penalty to these camped parties if attacked. Another idea could be a "Lie In Wait" action, which both made a party invisible while stationary and also gave them an attack bonus if for a turn when they started moving again. Thus, you could set up ambushes in choke points and near strategically valuable assets.
Heh heroes of might and magic was fun, but definitely not a unique battle system. That was from the old king's bounty games, and king's bounty probably got the idea from something older. If you liked it you should try the new king's bounties.
I definitely think of the battle system as a much drier and barer version of Kings Bounty. Armored Princess did this type of battle extremely well and I definitely think a lot of the polish and concepts from that could and should be adapted to the overall vision and structure of Elemental.
To me it seems combat is a really dry version of Romance of the Three kingdoms. But in RTK games there is at least some tactics! The battle system doesn't have any. Add some??? Like enemy has lower defense if you attack from the back. (an ambush...) Cavalry weaker vs. spears. Maybe have supplies to defend. etc. Currently I think the only tactic is dodge... If you even consider it to be one.
Yeah, just imagine how I feel the only reason I preordered was because at one point Real Time Tactical battles were a thing and I loved those in Sword of the Stars, simple as they were. The updated weapons mod does a good job of keeping things interesting though.
I'm really hoping combat gets redesigned from scratch with FE from the ground up. The current system just isn't worth it.
I have ideas, but it would take too long to explain (and I have in other areas)
Also if a creature is made of fire or water etc. then they should be immune to that element. AOW:SM had abilities (a lot of them) that you could add to units. So a Fire Elemental would have Immunity to fire hence a fire spell would do no damage to them. In AOW:SM you could also give abilities that had protection from a attack form which means your more resisteant but can still take damage.
It is little things like that that can enhance the combat expereance.
Just copy Kings Bounty please
Umm no. Kings bounty is fun but AOW:SM tactical combat is better. Kings Bounty tactical combat while fun is more like a game of chess with the pieces having abilities bit still on a chess like board.
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