This week I’ve been presenting internally our company business plan for 2011. Part of this is the Stardock Customer Report 2011 (which we’ll be making available publicly soon) along with our road map on the studio games (this doesn’t count future titles from our partner Ironclad who developed Sins of a Solar Empire nor does it address next steps in the Demigod franchise.
This journal entry will likely only be of interest to either techies or biz types. So if you’re looking for interesting game feature stuff, you’ll probably want to skip this.
The Road Map
Essentially every studio has a road map. They just don’t make it public for obvious reasons. Since we’re privately held, we can pretty much do whatever we’d like and one of the things we like is to keep our fans up to speed on what the heck is happening here.
So below is the road map for the studio developed (Stardock Entertainment’s studio) titles.
Kumquat
Kumquat is just our internal nickname for the engine. It was called this in honor of former Stardock developer Mike Duffy who created the predecessor “Pear” which we licensed from him after he left to start his own studio. Pear is what all Stardock games from 1997 through 2003 used (Entrepreneur, The Corporate Machine, LightWeight Ninja, Galactic Civilizations I). It was a fantastic game engine for its day but was 3D.
Kumquat is a new engine that was developed originally for Society which is the free to play MMORTS that we’ve been slowly developing for the past hundred years or something like that. We decided to have the first game that used Kumquat be a fantasy strategy game, namely, Elemental: War of Magic.
Now, when War of Magic was being made, we obviously had very high hopes for how it would be received. So we pictured having Elemental: War of Magic – Expansion 1…2…3. And then you’d have Elemental: War of Magic II and so on. But when Elemental: War of Magic was released it was very buggy and even after the bugs were largely fixed, the gameplay wasn’t what we had envisioned it being. We had cut or altered so many features from the original design to match what Kumquat could do – at the time – that we ended up with something that few were pleased with.
But work on Kumquat has continued non-stop and so in December it was decided that rather than continue the War of Magic line we would use the opportunity to create a new fantasy strategy game in the Elemental world that would succeed War of Magic and then just give that to everyone who bought War of Magic in 2010 it for free with steep discounts for anyone who buys it before it is released. That’s where Elemental: Fallen Enchantress comes in.
Elemental: Strategy Games
The effect of this is that we’ll eventually have War of Magic, Fallen Enchantress and <Untitled third branch>. This isn’t really very different than what we did with Galactic Civilizations II with the exception of the intention to have them be stand-alone and thus allowing the separate entities to continue to be potentially developed on their own path based on what players ask for. If the strategy games were primarily multiplayer games, we obviously couldn’t do this because you’d be fragmenting the player base. But these are primarily single player games that happen to have (fairly crummy) multiplayer support.
One nice thing about this is that it gives us, and players, a lot more design flexibility. Fallen Enchantress is a pretty radical departure from War of Magic. Based on what I’m seeing, I suspect most people will prefer that by far to War of Magic but only time will tell. But in any event, we will be making a v1.3 of War of Magic that will be on its own code branch.
As a game developer, I can tell you that this is pretty exciting stuff. Consider the challenges other strategy game franchises have. Some players would have liked to see Civilization V be more along the lines of Civilization IV. Others would have preferred it to be far more complex and others would have preferred to have it streamlined.
Elemental: RPG games
Now, as some people may recall, after War of Magic’s difficult launch, we had to re-evaluate our staffing levels and reorganize. This meant some painful layoffs back last Fall which came from people slated for the RPG title. After War of Magic, it was recognized that the game studio was being run like a hobby and not as an engineering process like our enterprise software unit. This meant we needed to bring in full-time designers and full-time project managers onto the studio. Thus, the second studio team, designated for the Elemental: RPG, got largely zapped. This year we will begin to reconstitute this team as we bring in a lead studio developer and some senior developers to help ensure that we don’t have another War of Magic episode.
The Mod Layer
As some people may remember, I was planning to take a sabbatical last year. Clearly that didn’t happen. I am still planning to do this sometime early this year. With Kael and Jon Shafer here now, I am comfortable that the games unit won’t need me to intervene. This will let me create what I’ve creatively named “Mod Layer”. The idea is to create a piece of middleware between Kumquat and future games that would allow people to make games using mostly Python. I’ve started the planning part of this with our DesktopX lead developer so that we can use Expression Blend to create “objects”, and then manipulate them via Python and render them in Kumquat. This way, modders can easily create a wide assortment of games that are either 2D or 3D and potentially portable to (at the very least) Xbox Live Arcade and Windows Phone (though I’d like to also do iOS but Xcode is the devil still so I may ask some Stardockians to make that part for me <g>).
No, it wasn't. That caused issues for a week or so. Demigod had connection problems for several months.
Stalking Brad doesn't count as "getting some", Xia.
The thing that confuses me, more than anything, is what the difference will be between EWOM, EFE, and EX will be. If a gameplay innovation is realized in EFE (initiative based tac combat comes to mind), why would you choose not to port that back into EWOM? I can see storylines diverging, of course, but gameplay elements? Why would you purposefully hold back gameplay elements from any of your properties if you've invested in developing them?
Even with a very good multiplayer support, DemiGod needed at least 5 times as many heroes to compete with the market.
Apparently, some people might prefer War of Magic as it currently is. Arright. I don't think it'll change much for those who'll shelve it with FE's release.
Oh that's harsh.
Just to disprove your point:
My fiance: http://looneymitch.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d2zou10
Anyway, I'll try to make my next post constructive.
How popular that would be... let's see.
Do you want to marry me?
Tydorius, your fiance is very lovely. Congrats.
Yes, I very much want an old school third person party RPG. I love those games! Give me!
@ Tydorius: Hoosiers Represent! That is all.
Like I said, a C++ SDK is one thing (and something I've asked for before). The proper place for C++ is where the standard user doesn't have to deal with it -- c'mon man, basic rule of code is provide an idiot proof interface! Python is ok for the standard "interface", but Lua would be better.
Lua is simple enough -- ok, I guess it's apparently not as simple as I thought, but you can pick it up fast -- and well known, which is an advantage not shared with other options than Python. Maybe Ruby or Perl, but I'm kinda doubtful that either would be a useful alternative.
Don't get me wrong, Python is an impressive language. CCP did a ton of cool stuff with Stackless Python and EVE. I'm just personally not a big fan.
I may be off on the time it takes to learn AngelScript, but I did just go through the refernce for the entire langauge and it is only 15 pages long with all of them at most half as long as the forth page of this discussion (and a number of them require no scrolling on my computer).
And weak typing just leads to errors that are hard to find. In Python if you try to assign a value to variable that hold an incompatible type, the script crashes. Strong typing prevents this resulting in less headaches.
I've not looked into the differences between scripts as of yet, but I know Python did really well for Mount and Blade. There weren't really any complaints there.
But here's a question - If there's going to be a mod layer between the engine and game once all this is done, how modular is it going to be? Could it support multiple scriptings at the same time? It might make it a little bigger, but as far as scripting goes could it not be interchangeable?
Like I said I've not researched them, but if it's not been finalized yet, could it be possible to have Elemental use its own extension and then make the files read similar to scripting in web development?
i.e. have the extension *.kms (Kumquat Modfication Scripting)
Inside the file have tags that read something like:
<script="LUA"> Blah blah blah lua scripting </script>
<script="PYTHON"> Blah blah blah python scripting </script>
And then make the *.kms recognize variables from all three languages and store them all in its own memory so that if PYTHON stores a variable by name KMS adds that variable to LUA and Angelscript so that if either language calls the variable by name it's already there and KMS can just automatically update variables in the global memory?
Then if we run across something one script can do vs. another script, we can just use them interchangeably?
Internally, we don't think War of Magic has much hope of being redeemed in terms of PR. But that's not the point. It's the principle of the matter. We should continue to support War of Magic regardless. People paid money for it and it's come a long way.
If you don't think War of Magic is a finished product at this point, you should probably go away and never come back. I really think the hard core zealots have had their pound of flesh and can piss off. War of Magic v1.11 is a definitely decent and finished game.
We can all quibble whether v1.0 was "finished" vs. "buggy and not fun" all day but at v1.11 the line has been crossed. On the one side of the line are the hyper entitled hard core PC gamers that routinely get mentioned at conference after-hour hang outs where why increasingly fewer game developers want to make PC games because of the crappy attitude. And on the other side of the line are the remaining (and hopefully majority even if largely silent) of PC gamers who recognize that while War of Magic had a crappy launch, it's done a very good job at becoming a pretty good fantasy strategy game.
I hope to be able to announce something on this by E3. We'll see.
I don't know if I buy this. Sure, the game communities online fret about this kind of thing. But after 20 or so years of being in business with over a dozen really good games having been developed or published during that time can be undone with one bad game release then really, why would I want to make games for such a market?
People tend to get myopic -- they miss the forest for the trees. When was the last time someone made a brand new AAA title for the PC? Not a sequel. A brand new game? It's getting increasingly rare and War of Magic is one of the reasons it is so rare. It's hard to launch a brand new game for the PC that isn't horrendously buggy (unless you license the engine at which point it's going to be made for consoles and ported to the PC).
What happened with War of Magic was an anamoly that is, with the benefit of hindsight, very easily identified and corrected. Fallen Enchantress will certainly help determine the future of Stardock's game unit but Stardock as a whole isn't affected one way or the other by how the video games do on the market. We enjoy making them but they don't pay the bills. They never have. And this is a good thing for gamers because we can speak openly and honestly about such things. Most of you guys have know idea how f'd up most game studios are -- unless you work in the industry at which point you know exactly what we're talking about.
Not to put too fine a point on it but life is short and I'm not inclined to put up with the personalized crap I put up with this past Fall. If people don't like Fallen Enchantress, then we're done. I'll take my gazllions of dollars and put them into areas we're better suited at. But I'm not going to deal with another season of bullshit. People need to repeat after this: It's a VIDEO GAME. We thought it was done and thought it was good. We were wrong. Terribly wrong. We have done everything reasonably possible to address that both in terms of the game and in reorganizing the games unit here. If that isn't good enough, then screw it. There's plenty of other areas to make software for that are far more lucrative and don't suffer the drama.
... I think I love you Frogboy.
Well Frogboy, you can always think this way: What are the "other gamers" that whine all day have done with their lives? You, for instance, have build a very profitable business in the software industrie and give away some joy by doing some great game. If you ever read a book about success, they always give you this advice: when you've succed, pass it to the other and you do that really well. The whinner dont give: they always take. They are fast to judge but slow to help, because it's easier to complain than to act. You acted fast by hiring those guy to help the franchise take off. You have honnor too, because you put your money where your mouth is! Conviction is rarer these day, because we all feel "victim" of something. Winner do things, and sometime fail. But the only one that doesn't fail is someone that never do something.
Last thing: when positive people talk about negative people, they call them pessimist. When negative people talk about themselve, they become realist. Nether of them are rigth or wrong: it's all about perspective. Keep your's at the winner side because Winner never whine and whiner never win. Keep up the good work and don't forget to get up if you fall. It's not a shame to fall, but a disgrace if you rest on the floor and I know you're not someone to "rest on the floor" . Have a great day.
Sorry for my english .
You've made a bunch of good games. The problem is as the budget increaes, you need new customers. Elemental had a good number of folks who were new to Stardock, and the first impression Elemental gave- was not good, especially since the expectations were very high. That said, you've done everything you can do to win those customers back, all you need to do now is to have FE deliver, which I expect will happen, given your overall track record.
As for the industry, one thing I remember you saying in the past was that Stardock didn't crunch much if at all. This is something I thought was pretty smart, as my time in the military taught me that it's hard to keep focus if you keep working 14-16 hour days. This is one reason I got worried about Elemental, I thought you guys were crunching for a long stretch- which wasn't something I remember you guys doing before? How was the crunch for GCII in comparison to the Elemental crunch? I do understand that sometimes you need to crunch to get things done.
Another question: do you guys crunch on the application side, is there crunch in applications, or is it just games?
Frogboy, you're making your marketing team rip their hair out again.
Depending on how scripts are linked in, even that much may not be needed. If you specify what scripts to import and what-not in the XML then you could say the script type there. Or there could be a tag to indicate a scripting module to import (a DLL written in C++ or similar) that will load and mangage scripts. Or a combination of both where additional langauges can be enabled based on what the mods need.
LOL. Indeed. But at the end of the day, it's not a democracy. I was on CanardPC today where there's a whine thread personalizing things at me. There isn't much incentive for me to put up with it. In 2011, no one makes new exclusive PC games out of pure profit motive. It's a labor of love. Make it miserable for those who are doing it out of love for the genre or the community and you lose them.
Some people should be ashamed at how they have treated people like Jon and, frankly, me these past few months. It reminds me of the OS/2 market when it was in decline. As the "normal" people went to other "markets" only the hard core zealots were left and it spoiled it for those who remained.
We are blessed with a lot of talented people here. Incredibly talented people with a lot of passion. There's a lot of cool game concepts to be made out there. There is drama in any market but there's a reason why a lot of top talent is leaving the PC market and it's not just because of piracy and smaller markets. It's the personalization of it. If people don't like Angry Birds II or Plants vs. Zombies II they're not going to scream at some individual (which is ironic if you think about it). But if people don't like like War of Magic or Civilization V they'll go after someone at a very personal level or start getting melodramatic. People would feel pretty ridiculous getting melodramatic over say Flight Control.
People need to get a grip and quit acting like some great injustice was done. Like I said, people had their pound of flesh. We felt pretty badly about how War of magic was when it came out. It's time to move. Those who can't need to bugger off.
It's not my intention to give you grief. I've just got a little different perspective- based on what I've seen from my corner of the woods. And yes, you're right, there have been plenty of trolls out there. That said, trolling means that they care enough to troll. When they stop trolling and they stop hating, that's when you might have real problems. . That said, if I think there's a better way then what you're doing, I'm going to say something- I may be wrong, but it's because I want the best game possible, with a dash of being an obnoxious know-it-all on the side.
I'd compare it to my uni's basketball team this year. People have been raging for years at how substandard it is. This year, they just stopped showing up. In a way, the rage is a sign people still care.
In the case of those casual games, the expectations are lower, so if they bomb/are disppointing, people can write it off a lot easier then they can the investment in a larger game. I think that's part of the equation as well.
Quoting Frogboy, reply 119Frogboy, you're making your marketing team rip their hair out again.LOL. Indeed. But at the end of the day, it's not a democracy. I was on CanardPC today where there's a whine thread personalizing things at me. There isn't much incentive for me to put up with it. In 2011, no one makes new exclusive PC games out of pure profit motive. It's a labor of love. Make it miserable for those who are doing it out of love for the genre or the community and you lose them. Some people should be ashamed at how they have treated people like Jon and, frankly, me these past few months. It reminds me of the OS/2 market when it was in decline. As the "normal" people went to other "markets" only the hard core zealots were left and it spoiled it for those who remained.People need to get a grip and quit acting like some great injustice was done. Like I said, people had their pound of flesh. We felt pretty badly about how War of magic was when it came out. It's time to move. Those who can't need to bugger off. Cheers to that sir! Not being on your marketing / pr team, this kind of honesty showing the clarity of reality is amazing. In a decade of developing software I have never seen a tech company so clearly determined to step up and preserve their earned reputation. The prevalence of pointless whine is why I tend to stay in the modders forum area where people are focused on the fun game that is. Please do not doubt that there is a majority enjoying the work you do, even if they are not as noticeable as the poo flinging zealots. Trolls: they don't troll to care, they troll because they are sadists who enjoy causing other people pain and ruining experiences for them. This not being a democracy, I would be authorizing the forum knights to start in with the
Cheers to that sir! Not being on your marketing / pr team, this kind of honesty showing the clarity of reality is amazing. In a decade of developing software I have never seen a tech company so clearly determined to step up and preserve their earned reputation. The prevalence of pointless whine is why I tend to stay in the modders forum area where people are focused on the fun game that is. Please do not doubt that there is a majority enjoying the work you do, even if they are not as noticeable as the poo flinging zealots.
Trolls: they don't troll to care, they troll because they are sadists who enjoy causing other people pain and ruining experiences for them. This not being a democracy, I would be authorizing the forum knights to start in with the
Trolls, be part of the solution or GTFO.
I just want to add to this conversation, that I am perfect and have reached self-actualization, transcendental enlightenment, and Nirvana.
Absolutely. On casual games or smaller games the expectations are less. On console games, the expectations are higher but things are still a lot less personalized than they tend to be on the PC.
Look at Quarter To Three, for instance. I was a regular on there for 9 years. At trade shows, I either organized or at the very least attended most of the dinners and such. And for what? As soon as we put out a game that didn't live up to people's expectations some people there become incredibly savage. 9 years of being apart of a community didn't even earn a handful of regulars there to say "Hey, that's uncalled for" to those who organized (for instance) going onto Amazon and sliming my book or going out of their way to just be vile.
The point being, if you take out the historic fringe benefits of making "niche" PC games -- great communities of enthusiastic people, what you are left are cold hard business calculations which don't favor "niche" PC games even remotely.
So here we are, February 2011 and we still have people complaining that War of Magic back in August was bad. Fine, we agree, it was. But it isn't now. And it hasn't been in some time. People need to either come to terms with that or go away.
Our focus will be Fallen Enchantress because we have the opportunity to radically change things. But we still want to update War of Magic because we like the game. It's as simple as that. Seeing users talk about what makes "business sense" forget the obvious -- if business considerations were the only factor, there'd be no game at all.
We are passionate about making great games. And for nearly 20 years, that's what we've done. We don't have a 100% track record (LightWeight Ninja got a 2.3 or something on Gamespot). But all in all, we make great games here. And we don't have to prove that to anyone. At the end of the day, we're going to do what we want to do. And right now that means making sure War of Magic keeps getting supported while at the same time putting most of our energy on Fallen Enchantress.
Let me just say for one, I appreciate all the work you and the rest of the team are putting in. That said, I think you are completely right to be upset by the incredibly personal attacks on you and your company. It really is uncalled for and ultimately unwarranted after all the work SD has put into improving the game. I personally am with M. Agrippa, while the general forum still has some incredibly petty posters, the mod forum is a completely different story. While many modders do wish for more support, the normal posts are really encouraging posts aimed at helping each other make the changes we would like to see and not simply blaming SD for not doing this or that.
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