The v1.2 BETA for Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity/Diplomacy players is now available! This update makes some changes to the game's engine and other core systems, so we're opting to release it as a beta before making it final.
IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH USING UN-FINISHED UPDATES, DO NOT INSTALL THE BETA.
Since this is a beta, it may be buggy and do unforeseen things. If you're not able/willing to help test this out and risk strange things happening, please wait until we release the final version.
WARNING: THE BETA WILL INVALIDATE YOUR EXISTING SAVE GAMES!
BETA 4 HOTFIX CHANGE LOG
BETA 4 CHANGE LOG
[ GAMEPLAY ]
We expect this to be the last beta update for v1.2 of Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity/Diplomacy. Please let us know of any major issues asap. Beta 4 will be released later today (Thursday - 3/10)
BETA 3 CHANGE LOG
BETA 2 CHANGE LOG
BETA 1 CHANGE LOG
[ Engine ]
[ Gameplay ]
[ AI ]
[ Interface ]
[ Misc. ]
To update to the BETA, run the Impulse client and once you're logged in, click the blue button in the upper-left corner. Check "Show pre-release versions" and that will display the beta update. Update the game via the Update or My Games tab and that's it.
How to provide feedback
For gameplay related feedback, please post it in a new thread on these forums. One issue per thread, please - that'll make it easier to keep track of things.
If you encounter a crash or a multiplayer desync we will need you to send in some information to sinssupport@stardock.com.
For crashes: Send us your PC's dxdiag report, the Sins mini-dump file, and your latest save game. Please also provide us with any information or details you can about what was going on before the game crashed and if the issue is reproducible.
For desyncs: We will need the last saves for all the players involved and as detailed a description of what was going on at the time the desync occured. Also, please indicate if the desync is reproducible from your last save point.
Something really weird happened
Game just quit without MD error will post if it happens again.
I know, i LOVE It. (i think it still stuns and hurts buildings)
I won't be able to check this out until saturday evening ... I'll download now and let you all know later.
Please fix the Domina. Its a useless unit rite now
"Communal Labor: Allows constructor ships to buff the rate of whatever a structure does (i.e., ship building) by flying within range of it. (NOTE: Sorry, this didn't make it into BETA 1.)"
So, could I move constructors near a culture center and buff the strength and rate of the culture spread?
"Kostura Cannon:
In that case, what does it do other than make a phase gate? Why build more than one for that purpose?
What exactly was wrong with the Kostura anyway? It is a SUPER weapon after all. It's supposed to be overpowered. If anything the Advent's superweapon needed a serious buff of some sort.
Domina might actually be usefull now... I have a feeling that there are going to be more capital ships with disable abilities around... which Dominas would be extremely usefull for... mind you, your only going to need 1 or 2 per cap ship, and/or, they ARE nice to take out heavy spam... and potentially carrier spam if your smart about it.
The problem is, they are so high up on the tech tree that most games are over before you see them... just like subverters and heavy cruisers... but if a game goes long... I do expect a few.
well, see, of course.
I havent tested it yet, but i think it still will knock out buildings... repair bays, starbases, and such... which means that it will still be usefull for non-phase-jumping... but youll only need 3-4 to take kill all the buildings in a grav well instead of 7-8 to take out a fleet. (I... think.) I mean... if it inturruptes a trade chain... that alone could make it worth it.
It does, however, indirecty nerf the akkan... which was previously the only way to defend your fleet against a kostura barrage in allied territory.
I already see the swarms of tec incoming.
Y boost hosiko so much? they were best support crusers already.!!! it was domina who needed that!!!
And whats the point nerfing kosturas if noone was crying about them from a year. They were such a big resource compromise that the side that build them usualy lost. People learned to counter them properly and still only few can use then in right way. What most important, it was the only working mass controll weepon.
Also waht with other carrier caps? y r they not toughed?
I'd agree that it's a step in the right direction, though perhaps a little under-ambitious given that there will be plenty of time for feedback during the beta.
The only change I don't like is the Marza missile barrage nerf. TEC really don't need a late-game nerf, and the "fast Marza" opener is no longer nearly as strong as it once was. I still believe that the best way to "fix" MB is to reduce its cooldown, duration, and antimatter cost. This means it's less likely to be a death sentence if a full barrage goes off without a hitch, but also means that you don't have to wait as long to try again if you get interrupted. It should be noted that against a skilled player, this is probably a net buff since it's unlikely that MB will go uninterrupted the full duration anyways. However, it's a definite nerf against the AI where full duration was practically agiven.
This is the big fish. This one probably should have been priority number two right after scramble.
Beyond that, GRG is still a joke; we made it much stronger than this in Project Equilibrium and it still was too weak. Still, it's at very least the right direction. Although I may not agree with all the other changes, they're at very least interesting and should improve matters substantially.
Lots of things, both strong and weak, were left untouched. Repulsion is another one that surprises me. Though, given the dearth of other changes to Advent, they need everything they can get.
I think this is more an issue of bombers being a little on the strong side and phase missiles being a little on the strong side. The two in conjunction are what make the Vasari bomber more than a little on the strong side. I personally favour a nerf to bombers (probably indirectly, in the form of a buff to fighters) across the board.
This isn't new, this is an existing bug that wasn't fixed. The problem is that there is a delay between when the new buff (from the second attack) is applied and when it takes effect. As a result, the old buff is removed and regeneration resumes for several seconds before the new buff is applied. As a result, the target only is disabled roughly 50% of the time while under direct attack. There are other abilities with this same issue, and fixing this bug would benefit them all.
Guys, it says it doesn't affect enemy SHIPS. Unless this is a deceptive typo, it still affects buildings. This is still a very strong effect.
even if u do see domina they are no where near as useful as hoshiko and subs.
The domina is by no means the only underpowered thing that was left untouched.
Speaking of the "near worthless" stuff for Advent alone, you have resource focus, the deliverance engine, the adjudicator, and martyrdom.
hehe, hoho love. .
I do belive the hoho issue was a mistake, not really a balance thing... i mean, it makes no sence game lore wise... when the lore says that the design allow 360 degree robot launching... and then having to face front? what?
That said... domina's might be able to get such a buff... but remember... a few patchs ago it was the domina, and overseer that got a turn rate boost and NOT the hoshiko. (hohos do actually feel a bit sluggish in that way now... but you dont notice it with their repair bots.... but we will see.
point of nerfing kosturas were that they needed nerfing. They are still game enders if you know what to do with em.
That said... what do I see...
LRM w/ flack still king. nothing changed here should have changed that.
I am quite annoyed with the lack of a assailent/exp adjustment... I was sure that would have happened... then again, there are quite a few things that havent made it into the patchs yet... so... hopefully that is one of them.
(edit: I am talking about (mostly opening) cap ships below, and not frigs)
As far as VAS goes...
Well, I see people still using lots of skirantras for a short while, because they just plain forgot how to use anything else... but I could be wrong.
I do expect there to be many death eggs flying around again, 2 constructors means that your 2x as likely to be able to finish that repair bay before the enemy fighters take em out.... Being able to cement that planet right between the players as yours is just so important that an extra constructor will be quite helpful.
That said, the kortul, and desolator should be making a apperance... they are good caps, and I think they are viable now.
The maruader was buffed ever so slightly... I dont know if we will see many of these around... but they are my fav capital ship... but I need to get my micro skills back up before i take one out for a test drive.
As far as TEC goes...
I see every capital ship as a viable opener now.
The akkan will still be fabulous for obvious reasons... but with the kostura nerf, and the skirantra nerf, armistise and targeting computer seem ever so slightly less valuable.
The marza... I feel kinda bad for the marza. with the range nerf, and the higher probabilities of capital ships with disables... feels like a double wammie... I am note sure if the new IS makes up for that... but we will see.
Sova still a sova.
Now... The KOL might actually be a viable opener now. And a starting kol will almost certainly be GRG/flack instead of flack/shield. That +75 damage. and the antimatter reduction means that, well, It miiiight actually be able to be able to clear out militia almost as fast as a sova... hopefully, occasionally, a more usefull kol later is just as intresting as a sova rush now. (death egg will almost certainly still clear out militia faster than a kol) A lower level kol is certainly buffed, while a higher level kol is almost unchanged... I do hope a kol opener would work, but we will see.
Now, A donov. I expect to see a few of these. most likely in a pair, of course. With the magnatise buff, I quite expect that donov's will now be QUITE effective against early vasari bomber spam... If a tec player sees a skirantra, I think you can expect his second capital ship to be a donov. I do really hope this ship is viable, Its my second favorite ship, and having one or 2 of these makes KOLS even more viable.
As far as ADVENT goes...
well, ill be honest, i was never much of an advent player. but...
With the risk of a haylcon meeting a kol, or kortul increased... I dont know. Hopefully, the risk of a kol, having just steamrolled though millitia, now ready to flackburst advent strike craft to little itty bits might reduce double haylcon starts.
With the buffs to all three R's... I do hope to see some PRO/RAD/RAP (holy trinity) combos, or even now a RAP/REV combo miiight be possible (the rev uses guidance to allows a lv 3 rapture to almost maintain vengence on whatever is being focus fired. the rev, while under its own guidance, is able to shut down both of the enemy capital ships very quickly.
The new guidance is sure intresting... I have a feeling the devs played it safe with such a large change... i expect the antimatter cost will come down a bit in a future release, or the % reduction will go up... of course, if it allows light frigs to spam steal antimatter faster... it might be able to recoup some of that extreme antimatter cost... It might be useful.
The Rapture, with vengence, is suprisingly effective at taking down strike craft if you target the right thing. (bombers attacking repair bay = repair bay gets lots of damage... thanks to high multipliers and lack of shield mitigation = lots of damage reflected back to the bombers)... I do hope to see this to reduce strike craft spam as well.
Progen should still be viable, but might take a slight back seat.
In general... I think that there could be some capital ship combo experimentation possible on the advent side... A pro/haly will still work, but other things will be possible now as well I think... And the way advent capital ships level up... I do expect to see in general, 3 or more advent capital ships, with many abilities, instead of 1 or 2 high level capital ships like what is common with other factions.
Well, thats the theory, now, to test the theories... personally, i hope I am wrong.
I also agree its a step in the right direction. Many good changes. But the support caps still need more help/buffs. Carrier caps are probably still too strong. And unlocked diplomacy needs lots more work.
I too was expecting an improvement to fighters (and illums!).
The Skirantra now scrambles a 'maximum average' of 2.5, 5 & 7.5 bombers at each level, for 200 AM compared to 171.5 over the old 120 period (vs 3.43, 6.86 & 10.29). A very reasonable change, in my opinion.
It is not useless 'right' now, or even "uber crap". Its' 1000 hull point heal is no small potatoes (25/ for 40sec) despite also being a tier 6 tech.
So far so good. Even before the scramble bombers boost as a Vasaari player I always have the carrier cap as my opener. Carrier, Battleship, Carrier are my usual open trio. Still seems very viable in this build while not being over power (thank goodness!!!)
Also, a HUGE thumbs up on the way planet icons are displayed on large multiple star maps. This makes huge 150 star maps actually playable. Very excellent!!! I'll be testing out some more stuff this weekend. Mostly map building to see if I can get that balanced correctly.
Ok, I kinda just blurted out that sova missle batteries do more damage/antimatter vs kol GRG (and, since missle batteries are over time, and killable, it makes sence, and should be that way)... without actually doing the math to back it up... so math time!
1. missile battery DPS: 13/15.6/22.75
Lasts 180 seconds. (gets 16 shots off)
so. total damage of 2288/3088.8/4004 (which, I will go ahead and also do the old/new scramble bombers as well here in a bit)
70 AM 35 second cooldown time.
So, 32.7/44.1/57.2 damage/antimatter
At unlimited antimatter, you get 5.14 turrets deployed = maximum of 66.8/80.2/116.9 dps.
For GRG.
DPS (at unlimited antimatter): 66.6/120.8/175 DPS
For damage/antimatter you got 8/13.2/17.5 damage/antimatter spent (dont forget that, carriers have more antimatter storage and regen than battleships as well, so you cant quite compare this DPA vs the other DPAs... but its close enough)
Scramble bombers: squads last 75 seconds.... 1/2/3 squads... 50 am cost.
DPS/bomber = 96.9/13.5 = 7.18 dps.
For 3 bombers, thats 21.5 DPS so 21.5/43.1/64.6 damage/second
3 bombers/squad = 1615/3230/4845 Total damage. (previously 2584/4168/7752!! total damage)
So, 32.3/64.6/96.9 Damage/antimatter spent. (previously 51.7/103.3/155 damage/antimatter spent)
At unlimited antimatter, you end up with 53.75/107.5/161.25 DPS. (previously 73.7/147.4/221.1DPS)
So: intrestingly, for almost identical damage/antimatter, lv1 MB is (now) actually slightly better than lv1 SB, but lv 3 SB is much better in damage/antimatter, total damage, and DPS than lv 3 MB. (+ phaaase missles)
In unlimited antimatter happy land, A kol actually now is better than these other abilities... but in DPA... the kol is still amazingly underwelming (but MUCH better) (was 4.33/8.67/12.67 DPA)
That said... Unlimited antimatter fun land for the kol is now farther away with the last stand change...(lv6+ kol effectively lost .66 antimatter/second regen) Even with 3 donov's chaining flux field, the DPA for GRG is 32/52.8/70... Which is worse than unmodified SB, but slightly better than unmodified MB.
Both scramble bombers and missle batteries provide damage sinks, in which damage is effectively wasted, especially if the targets are not killed before they expire. (missle batteries is FANTASTIC for distracting HC millita... scramble bombers is great for distracting the other banks of the flack frigs away from your assailants) GRG does not.
Both scramble bombers and missle batteries are upgraded by research/pacts... GRG is not.
Just... some numbers. numbers.
As I said earlier, we tested a version of GRG even stronger than the one in this patch and still found the Kol very weak at lower levels. It was alright once it hit level 5, but at level 1 it was getting beat up by militia a Sova, Akkan, or Marza could clear with ease.
Indeed; this is very similar to the numbers you and I were throwing around over the past few months. I'm happy with this; the ability is still useful, but not overpowering.
Pirates still level up too fast. The threat level should not rise so quickly especially after launching raids for cheap rewards of 250 to 1000. Realistically I cant even do much with the amount of money pirates get. Also the fact that I cant take them out early game with a fleet of five cap ships needs to be addressed...
@ OP
In my opinion
How to install beta updates should be written in different color bold or some other way pointed out of the text. A lot of people simply doesn't know how how to get betas to install.
At the same time simple solution How to keep and play other version should be written underneath as well. A lot of people don't want to loose old saves option to play mods etc
Well, saves have been invalidated in the past by updates so... As always, updating your version is up to you.
Secondly, the process to update to beta is pretty clear if you exercise some intelligence. Not calling anyone stupid, but we don't want it to be so easy that someone merely reinstalling the game and updating to the current release version isn't going to accidentally update all the way to the Beta and then bitch about things not working. ;]
Lastly, I've only tested this with Distant Stars, but the mod still plays without crashing when applied after updating to the beta, so that would lead me to believe that other mods should carry over and work as well.
Played a good 3 hour game with 7 AIs and didn't notice much lag at all. So that seems pretty good.Also found the Dunov to be a more respectable ship. Im pretty happy bout the changes iv seen.
Well in lobby on "older" version people were asking me how to update and after a while came back and said that they can't. And that prompted me to write above post.
Point them to this thread and tell them to read the bottom of the original post. If they can't come here and figure it out, then they're probably not going to have any useful input for the beta testing in which case they should probably hold off until the official release.
Or show them this picture... x.x
kol GRG reduces target ship speed to -100%
factor this in pbhead
Kol is a cap killer now.
with egg u have to use 2 abilities to damage and slow down target
with kol however 1 ability does both...and better.
kol/dunov combo will be lethal
i love this patch hopefully we have finaly seen the end to everyone spam carrier caps no matter what race syndrom
and thankgod for SB nerf tired of seeing everyone build 3 skirantras no matter what and if u did not do the same u were at a disadvantage
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