The v1.2 BETA for Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity/Diplomacy players is now available! This update makes some changes to the game's engine and other core systems, so we're opting to release it as a beta before making it final.
IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH USING UN-FINISHED UPDATES, DO NOT INSTALL THE BETA.
Since this is a beta, it may be buggy and do unforeseen things. If you're not able/willing to help test this out and risk strange things happening, please wait until we release the final version.
WARNING: THE BETA WILL INVALIDATE YOUR EXISTING SAVE GAMES!
BETA 4 HOTFIX CHANGE LOG
BETA 4 CHANGE LOG
[ GAMEPLAY ]
We expect this to be the last beta update for v1.2 of Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity/Diplomacy. Please let us know of any major issues asap. Beta 4 will be released later today (Thursday - 3/10)
BETA 3 CHANGE LOG
BETA 2 CHANGE LOG
BETA 1 CHANGE LOG
[ Engine ]
[ Gameplay ]
[ AI ]
[ Interface ]
[ Misc. ]
To update to the BETA, run the Impulse client and once you're logged in, click the blue button in the upper-left corner. Check "Show pre-release versions" and that will display the beta update. Update the game via the Update or My Games tab and that's it.
How to provide feedback
For gameplay related feedback, please post it in a new thread on these forums. One issue per thread, please - that'll make it easier to keep track of things.
If you encounter a crash or a multiplayer desync we will need you to send in some information to sinssupport@stardock.com.
For crashes: Send us your PC's dxdiag report, the Sins mini-dump file, and your latest save game. Please also provide us with any information or details you can about what was going on before the game crashed and if the issue is reproducible.
For desyncs: We will need the last saves for all the players involved and as detailed a description of what was going on at the time the desync occured. Also, please indicate if the desync is reproducible from your last save point.
I didn't have the chance to play as vasari on MP since beta A came out but we must be careful not to over nerf them.
I play vs Vicious AIs 1v1 all the time and in pre beta i mostly struggled with advent then it was tec and with vasari it was easiest to beat it.( I never used bomber spam because I used fighter cover and repair cloud....)
As it stands out now Vasari moved to position 3 to beat AI with TEC taking the lead and advent nearly overtaking them.
It's been my experience that a well prepared Advent fleet versus a well prepared Vasari fleet comes out to being the ultimate grudge match, and the victory (to whatever side) will be Pyrrhic at best.
To me, that screams balance. Leave phase missiles alone, messing with them will only screw up even larger portions of the game. If you feel something must be nerfed... reduce the survivability of (all) bombers. As others have said, either by buffing fighters or buffing flak vs bombers - or maybe some combination thereof.
In regards to Vasari fighters - there is, in all honesty, no reason for them to have phase missiles. Strikecraft do not have shields, and the frigates fighters are meant to be effective against are typically fragile already. If Vasari fighters are deemed truly over powered, then I recommend switching them to pulse weaponry, instead of phase missiles. It's more in-line with the concept anyway. Just please, please, please... give them the orange pulses, not the ridiculous pink bubbles that were given to star bases.
-Itharus
PS: Honestly, it sounds to me like people are mad that late game Advent's shield mitigation is less effective vs Vasari. But no one has spoken towards how effective Advent forces are against Vasari. Even with phase missiles being as effective as they are, the Advent are still very effective against Vasari forces as well.
PSS: Please recolor Orkulus pulse discharges to orange, and/or use the Skirmisher pulse graphic instead of the pink bubbles that Orukulii currently use. For that matter, disintegration graphics would look better in green, but I'd happily settle for better-looking pulse discharges.
I like Itharus's ideas about removing Phase weapons from Vasari fighters--nice rationale, smooth and no de-balancing mechanics added. Good points on the balance issue too (I think).
I doubt they're going to change the graphics but thats something not that hard to learn and from what I understand, modding graphics files does not effect multi-players on-line checksum. Same with music changes.
couldn't have said it better myself
I dont know i this was the case before this patch, but will Kostura Cannons auto-targeting fire upon planets other kostura's are already firing/fired at? If so, it would be nice to change that since there is no benifit to multiple blasts anymore. This is also ignoring there is little use for more than two kostura's at all anymore, but meh.
What I dislike about Phase Missiles is that Va-sorry has to lean on it as a crutch. A really damn good one. Nearly everything has phase missiles, and the combat stuff that doesn't sucks. Why do fighters and flak have phase missiles anyway?
And then there's the missile pact...
Really you should never auto cast super weapons. If you can get away doing that in a game I don't think balance is a major issue for you.
I don't remember the damage output of the Kostura, but at the minimum its useful to have as many as needed to destroy all structures in a gravity well (if against Advent that includes the possibility of them having shields).
In a recent game that was a semi-stalemate just for kicks I built upwards of 8 or 9 Kosturas to test this theory out!!! If you let them auto-fire you might get one or two that target the same planet but it seems that they usually target different planets unless the AI (or possibly human player) remains at one planet for a long time with their fleet / defenses.
Kostura damage: 1500 to structures (600 to ships)
The beta patch removed the damage and stun to ships.
Hence the parenthesis. Since this is a beta and not a final, changes aren't concrete.
Changing missle pact to +15% damage instead of +15% bypass would be.... nice.
I haven't heard any fix on the AI giving up to fast, there should be some kind of conquest mode or untill all units of the enemy have been destroyed.
The issue with that is that some AIs never give up. I have never had an AI give up. Some see a very balanced approach. Others like yourself see the AI giving up after two battles. This makes it very hard to pinpoint why the AI is behaving like it is. Its not a consistent bug.
(Maybe I'll finally post this in the right topic.)
Its not the fact Phase missles bypass shields, thats all fine and dandy. What is wrong with phase missles is they are the only weapon that isnt affected by mitigation.
Well, you can say they are b/c they dont bypass shields 100% of the time. At any rate though those times they do, they do massive damage. There has been a couple of post full of numbers and what not...all show when a missile bypasses mitigation a couple 100% increase in damage.
This is what needs to be fixed. The grossly damage percentage phase missiles have over any other weapon. If you dont want phase missiles to be affected by mitigation exactly like other weapons, why not let them be affectly 50%.
For example when a ship as 80% mitigation, any phase missiles that 'bypass' the shield are only reduced by 40%. If nothing else they should be reduced by 15% at the least. With Darvin's idea of increasing phase missile block with research, I can see this evening the damage spike phase missiles get.
Now I know most of us are thinking this is just b/c the Advent have issues with phase missiles but it affects the TEC also. Crazy damage is Crazy damage. Luckly for the TEC they are better handled to deal with increased damage straight to the hull, great repair bays/hoski/and even SB. This is why TEC doesnt have the same issue with this bonus damage as the Advent. Most of the Advent 'tanking' comes from shield based abilities and research.
Anyhow, does anyone else have a ideas on how to tone down SC field presence? IMHO, changing Fighters/Flak wont fix the underlying problem. Which is SC can be everywhere, quick fast and in a hurry, and you cant kite/run from them. Just like phase missiles in a odd sort of way. SC just stick out like a sore thumb b/c they dont follow they basic combat mechanics any other combat ship must have. Range. There nothing wrong with using a crap ton of bombers, go for it. What is wrong is your enemy really doesnt have much way to stop it once they enter the grav well.
You can scout ahead and prepare flak and your own fighter horde but, those can not stop a bomber horde from flying across lets say a Sun Grav well and nuking your cap. Ok, so you lose a Cap but you killed all those bombers before they could wipe another Cap away. Did you enemy really lose anything though? No. Just some AM. *shrug* Oh well. Warp Carriers away before your ships or even SC can get to them.
I know not alot of fighting happens in Sun Grav wells, but that a great example of the glaring issue. If those Carriers/SC were LF/LRF/Flak/HC/etc. in that example the outcome would of been way different You could of kited your poor cap out harms way if needed or even attempted to attack. Even if you lose that Cap you know you at least took out some enemy ships, which cost $$$ to replace.
Not to beat a dead horse and Im sure none this really matters b/c Im sure IC has most of what they want to change lined up and Im asking alot for a patch. But, I can hope maybe they will read all our debate and bless the modder with the ability to change things like this. So at least in theory we can test out some of our ideas.
Speaking of autocast superweapons, could the default state of superweapons be set to autocast OFF? It's annoying as hell to build one, then have the first shot get fired at random.
I suggested changing up the Vasari weapons a while back as well. If you ever want to balance the Visari teching path, you need to provide some incentive to research pulse and wave weapons. IMO do something like:
-Fighters on wave
-Flak on pulse
-Move wave weapon tech to tier 2-3-5
-Remove charged missile flak prereq
-Maybe come up with some new ability for Vasari flak?
-Have beam tech affect Starbase weapon #2
-Reduce beam tech costs (ditto for TEC beams)
-Add third level of pulse tech research at tier 4?
Devs are never going to change weapon types, as it would invalidate the manuals.
Just sayin.
Then stop saying it It makes all our dreams and wishes come crashing down!
well, brainstorming fixes is important, but brainstorming within the constraints given is important too.
like this:
http://xkcd.com/689/ (For all those in FIRST, how many rule violations can you spot?)
Haven't seen this mentioned before...
Please increase mine detection range. Advent mines start moving before you can destroy them within the detection range. Now that I type this I wonder if it might be that the scout is moving in to shoot after detecting and getting to close. Still annoying as hell. Maybe increase fire range of the scouts?
I have actually just used the Kol, or any other cap ship, to detonate them and repair it after as a means to clear out Advent mines.
I agree basically, though this is why game manuals are pretty vague anymore as they tend to get outdated before the product hit's the shelfs anymore if too much info is put in.
I'm ok with phase missiles on the units they are on, but the ability to bypass shields and mitigation is obviously very extreme.
An interesting observation is Kanrack's dps is significantly lower than LRM's but are brought back inline with PM research. However, fighters, bombers and anti fighter PM's are comparable per supply IIRC with their counterpart units. Obviously fighters and anti fighter need this as PM's are useless against their intended targets. Bombers however benefit the most as their intended targets are ships with shields. Fighters and flak benefit as soft counters for units like Long Range and do counter intuitive damage to other ships with heavier armor as explained in the other thread.
I get people like this aspect of Vasari, I do too.
Instead of buffing Advents anti-phase missile damage lets give the shield experts what they really need which is abilities that Reduce shield mitigation on their targets. This would be in arrears obviously as Advent would still be required to rip through shields. I'm thinking change nearly useless Crusader tier 7 upgrade to decrease shield mitigation by 5%+/- and change the beam upgrades to reduce shield mitigation at each level with a smaller damage bump.
Fun, problem solved, Illum is fixed and Advent has more tools now
yeah, I was saving a similar idea for if a vasari player ticked me off. What? bypassing mitigation is balanced? oh, well, why dont we just take some of yours if your okay with that.
course, TEC would want someway around mitigation then...
TEC should get upgrades that reduces target armor.
My super weapons are always off on default, not sure what's up with yours.
You can detect them without triggering them, the problem is that scouts don't have the weapon range to then move and destroy them by themselves. This means the only safe way to clear Advent minefields is to turn the scout to hold position, manually reveal the mines and let fighters blow them up, which is extremely time consuming.
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