“Expansion Packs”
In the time before digital distribution, you had “expansion packs”. It is a concept that has survived well into the digital distribution age.
You’d release say Galactic Civilizations II: Dark Avatar as an expansion for people who had the game and then Galactic Civilizations II: Gold Edition for new buyers. Similarly, we released Sins of a Solar Empire: Diplomacy and Sins of a solar Empire: Trinity for new buyers.
So why was that done? The answer is, in the old days, there was no sure fire way to tell if someone had the original game. So you had to offer a second SCU just for those people. On the business software side, all kinds of efforts have been made to try to get new editions down to a single SCU including installers that sniffed for the original version, send in a copy of your manual, you name it.
A New Team
Fallen Enchantress gives us the opportunity to have a very different fantasy strategy game than War of Magic. While the original intent was simply to eliminate an unnecessary SCU (we can simply have Fallen Enchantress with an upgrade price for people who have War of Magic), in this case, it lets us make an even bigger break from War of Magic because it has a new Lead Designer (Kael instead of myself) with Jon Shafer helping as well as we begin pre-production of Jon’s new game along with many other changes. It’s still Stardock but it’s a very different Stardock than what made War of Magic (or GalCiv II for that matter).
I’m still filling the role of studio lead developer and Executive Producer but we’re actively seeking out industry veterans to take over the role of lead developer of Stardock Entertainment.
A New Game
There is also another advantage to Fallen Enchantress being its own game rather than an “expansion pack”. And that is, it frees the team to make radical changes to the basics of the game while allowing War of Magic to still be updated on its own source tree. A user of Fallen Enchantress won’t have to have War of Magic to play it and can treat War of Magic as a separate game.
This will be the same case for the third entry in the Elemental world which won’t be out for a long time still (but will be free for people who got War of Magic before the end of October 2010). It’ll be its own game as well not requiring War of Magic and Fallen Enchantress but be available at a sharp discount to those who have the previous entries in the game world.
The Changing Market
A few years ago, this wouldn’t be possible. Retailers would have refused to carry just stand-alone expansion. There were exceptions and the Company of Heroes series did a lot of good for our industry by paving the way here. Supreme Commander’s “stand alone” expansion helps as well.
Of course, no one has brought more attention to the changing digital model of PC games more than Blizzard with its recent release of Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty which will have two additional stand-alone games in the Starcraft 2 universe.
Will this be a good thing for PC gamers? I think it depends on how it’s handled. Personally, I’d like to see people get discounts if they have other chapters in the series. That’s going to be our model for the foreseeable future but part of that is because we have our own digital distribution platform (Impulse).
Could be good for us, a new review is going to be much better especially if reviewers toss in bonus points when they compare it to Elemental release version. May attract more modders and players while helping to fund more support for the new franchise.
Honestly, are you retarded? I understand completely what you are saying, I thought I was pretty clear but I guess I should have known better since you couldn't understand the original post either. Fallen Enchantress will contain everything that EWOM has PLUS new content. EWOM will continue to be updated because some people might not want to buy FE and for them, they will continue to get updates, balance changes, etc. Fallen Enchantress will get ALL OF THOSE updates that EWOM gets plus all of the extra content that EWOM doesn't have. Essentially, if you get FE, you no longer need to play EWOM.
So your concerns are not necessary. You will not have to worry about EWOM having something FE doesn't. FE will have all that EWOM has and more. Hence, you only need to play FE. I am pretty sure that this is what the game is going to be. If it isn't, then I will let one of the Devs correct me, but I can't see them taking any approach but this one.
Yes, the goal here is a re-launch of the game. If they made an expansion the stigma of the reviews and bad posts people have made in regards to the game bugs etc... will destroy any potential sales they could get from it. Renaming the game and fixing the issues is a better way to go. It is basically a fresh start. Seen this before in other companies and products and it has advantages. I knew the game was bugged before I bought it in November and read many of those reviews but I also knew the game had allot of potential since it was a take off from Masters of Magic and Age of Wonders. So I kepted watching and watching, honestly the only reason I bought it was due to the free expansion offer cause I knew the issues would eventually get fixed.
Good show Stardock and sorry for my posts earlier, I should have read the entire thing from start to finish instead of glancing over it. Perhaps in the future just make a summary with bullets may help people, like me, to pick it up easier.
I like how you speak so authoritatively in the first 3 sentences, and then spend the last 2 basically saying you might just be talking out of your ass because you don't know either and are just guessing.
Historically, when any expansion launches, the current playing population is expected to migrate (especially in this case since it will be free for the majority), and the "base" game stops getting updates. The code base diverges more and more as the new mechanics in the expansion keep getting expanded on to the point where the only things that might be compatible with the base game are minor bug fixes.
When FE launches, everyone should expect the majority of SD's attention turn to it. The base game will more than likely be left in the dust very quickly, there will just be no point in wasting resources on it.
What they are saying in a political way is that the game, as published, was so screwed that they need to completely revamp the whole thing to try and get it right. It was a half ass effort and thats why we get 2 "free" updates. They are making the game that you purchased originally and calling it free.
Still like the game, it can be damn fun till it breaks.
That game you are currently enjoying is not going to die soon. Updates for World of Magic will continue, fixes and patches etc., etc., will be made available.
To say that Stardock is currently in the process of making the game we originally purchased mid 2010 (or earlier) is not only inaccurate but awfully unfair and unwarranted.
There is nothing inherently wrong with having stand-alone additions to a main title, nor should it imply anything negatively. But from the consumer's perspective, such a business approach only gives us more variety from the Elemental series. And I am excited about what may come to us in one way or another.
I really enjoy playing WoM, much like yourself and others here, but should we really go so far and denounce this truly enjoyable game?
Who du sie work für?
Show me sie papier!
-.-
Yep, because for me, it's not what Brad said that was "confusing", because I understand what a stand-alone game is. What I wanted to know is : A) If FE has everything that EWoM has and plus, why bother selling EWoM? Change to the new engine and make "expansion" from Fallen enchantress. B)If FE doesn't have all of what EWoM have, will it be compatible with EWoM or you can't play "both" at the same time C)If the third will also be a stand-alone and it won't be playable by neither WoM or FE, why make it so since the FE will have the strong base that Brad need (quoting from Brad:There is also another advantage to Fallen Enchantress being its own game rather than an “expansion pack”. And that is, it frees the team to make radical changes to the basics of the game while allowing War of Magic to still be updated on its own source tree. A user of Fallen Enchantress won’t have to have War of Magic to play it and can treat War of Magic as a separate game.) why dont make the third one an expansion of FE?
You see, there is about another 2 big scenario that I can come up with, and they have all big IF, it is the IF that I try to understand, not what Brad said And I don't complain either, FE seems really amazing and for free, I won't bother. BUT, IF all three game will be stand-alone and IF they wont be interacting alltogether, I would only be a little disapointed. Maybe in Elemental 2 they will start the game with all of the content (read idea and mechanics) of the three games combined and move on another direction after that, I don't know. Just asking
I'm still sure not sure what to think of this. I won't judge until I see the details. I thought Elemental was going to become the game it was supposed to be at released WITHOUT an expansion...
So if they took the name of the new game away and just released the exact same changes and content as a series of patches, you'd have no problem?
I would have liked to have seen a more expanded CRPG elements in Elemental WOM with increased champion/character interactions and some dungeons. Now, I hope we don't end up with two broken incomplete games vs. one fixed/completed expanded one!
I don't quite get why people are assuming that FE will replace EWoM, or that development on EWoM will discontinue, or that FE will have all the same content and gameplay mechanics as EWoM, plus with the additional content. Brad specifically states:
If the game was going to be discontinued, and FE relace it, then the divergent paths in the source code wouldn't be necessary, nor making the statement that both can be updated individually.
Right now (stupid feelings ) it makes a difference for me. I´m pretty sure E: FE will be the better game. Everything else would astonish me. With all the experience with E: WoM, the new structures/team, the new creativity, new energy, knowing the engine much better and.. and.. and.. So, yeah! I´m sure E: FE will replace E: WoM. And that saddens me a little bit. I´m really happy to get a great TBS Fantasy Game and that for FREE. Thats amazing. But it feels a little bit like a goodbye for me.
On the other side, there is a new changelog out .... Like i wrote. Stupid feelings.
It's worth noting that we sell Sins of a Solar Empire on its own and we sell Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity.
Usually, the difference in SKU's (thanks for the correction, not sure what I was thinking) is pricing and feature sets.
I can't say what the long-term differences between War of Magic and Fallen Enchantress will be.
I can say that the trees are split and there will be a v1.2 and a v1.3 and so on to War of Magic.
At the end of the day, the basic thing is this: We don't want to have to make two SKUs like we have had to do in the past. It makes it harder to market, it makes it harder to sell and it only happened because retailers insisted on being able to sell expansion to people who had the "base" game already.
Nowadays, we don't really need to do that. Heck, no retailers even picked up Sins of a Solar Empire: Diplomacy. They only took Trinity. So the Diplomacy SKU was a total waste of time. We should have just had Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity and let people who had Entrenchment upgrade to that for $9.95.
Honestly, are you an idiot? The original post, does not say that what so ever, and you are talking a butch of crap. You have no idea what the hell SD plans to do down the road. They could very well have very different content in each game depending how "radically" FE changes from E:WOM. There is nothing that supports "your" claims. Plus the original post clearly says War of Magic to still be updated on its own source tree. This means it can turn out different than FE. So before you go asking someone if there retarded, take a look at yourself first...
Got to love the internet, anyone can talk stupid...
I suspect that post-expansion, the WoM patches will mostly be fixes backported from the expansion
Honestly, I suspect very few people will stick with WoM after FE comes out, so it may be a waste of resources to give it real post-expansion support.
You've hit the nail on the head there. WoM will almost certainly get maintenance bug fixes only with the enhancements going into FE.
So a stand-alone "expansion" is going to cost maybe the same as a regular game and not an expansion maybe?
Well, if you have War of Magic, then Fallen Enchantress will cost as much as an expansion pack. If you don't, then it'll cost as much as a "regular game".
No different than someone who owned GalCiv II: Dread Lords -> GalCiv II: Dark Avatar vs. someone guying GalCiv II: Gold Edition.
Sounds reasonable to me.
I am not saying it's "not" reasonable only if you look at other series that sell stand-alone "expansions" like the Guild II, all these "expansions" are pretty much the same price as the original game. I don't think those series typically retailed at 50 USD though. I could be incorrect on this specific example.
Me too.
VISA card is at the ready...well, for the second expansion it is.
Honestly honestly honestly people! If you really want to play it, you'll pay for it! If you got in at the ground level (i.e. purchased EWoM before Oct) you get a bit of return on investment. We're all gamers here. You have to pay for this stuff.
Don't worry about wanting to play EWoM after FE; you wont. Why would you? It would be like playing Civ4 without Warlords or BtS, like playing Age of Wonders 2 instead of Age of Wonders SM, like playing EU3 instead of EU3 + HttT; why would you? Why? Aside from miserlyness...
Sure the economy's tough right now, but we're gamers. We go without groceries just for our latest fix...or maybe that's just me
I´m sure its necessary to go that way with E: FE. And for me its not such a big problem. I wish stardock all possible (finacial) success, because i want more great games in the upcoming years.
Ah, thank you Frogboy, I don't know what SKU mean exactly, but I think I understand what you mean. Thank you for the explanation and now it's a little clearer that both FE and WoM will have maybe some different aspect in the future.
Oh hai. If the Tripped Magical Girl is Stand Alone Complex, that means sweet box. Altough I get it for free* (twice actually), if I want a box for it, do I pay just shipping costs?
Collectors Edition too? (Hiergamenon 2: The Return)
* the expansion pack
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