Yeh so atm there is that other thread, which lets be honest isn't the most welcoming thread for Jon to be reading in his first week here. I would like to think we as a community are at the very least a balanced sort so I figure why not have a place for positive opinions of Mr Shafer. So yeh, heres your place for Jon Shafer love, Oh and don't get bogged down in petty things like the "Truth" or "Facts" I am looking for the more positive side of our little elemental community to shine through.
Right I will start us off.
Welcome to Elemental Jon!! I admire alot of aspects of your previous work and based on what Brad and others say about you I feel you are a great fit for the job role they have given you here. You seem to have a good sense of humor and I hope over time these forums come to feel like a second home to you (that is unless you already have more than one home, in which case more like a 3rd or 4th home).
Ps: Is it true that you once saved a whole group of kittens from almost certain death with just great game design alone? If it is that's pretty awesome man.
Glad to have another talented person hired by Stardock to improve Elemental.
I wasn't happy with Civilization 5 but I think 2K Games deserves a lion's share of the blame there.
Also, no one is perfect. Lord knows, I'm not.
So welcome Jon Shafer.
I'm perfect. My mom says so.
Ah another dev to bitch and moan at and abuse
Such a great day.
I second, he is a LORD (my guess is he is THE lord, xia is just to make him unrecognizable on the forum... sneaky little bastard ) Oh by the way, I don't know you but Welcome aboard.
This is the lamest comment I've seen all week. This guy seems to be channeling True Grit as imagined by a 14-year-old.
I know what you're thinking. "Did he write six posts or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a an internet nerd-rage post, the most powerful post in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
No, I'm talking about Civ5. Get lost, analphabet.
Something people should think very carefully about before having children:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdaDOmpqTbI&feature=fvsr
"This is scarier than a Wes Craven film."
I really think that is the most likely scenario. The ideas themselves were great, but the reality of deadlines+budgets+politics imposes its own vision on the products.
Welcome, I am excited to see what comes out of this!
So I may to be taking this thread off the rails by asking this but...
How was Civ V ruined? I haven't played it yet so I'm curious but I have played Civ IV and its expansions.
here's a great writeup: http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/whatwentwrong.html
scroll to the bottom for an outline of the glaring design flaws
but remember shafer and the dev team aren't responsible because nobody is held accountable these days for anything, it's all deux ex machina
thinking about it, I bet it was 2k who came up with the gameplay concepts, etc and decided to completely ignore everything that was learned from civ1-civ4, yes that's how the industry works, I'm sure of it!
I smell brown-nosers in this room.
Onto the note of character assassination... I don't hate Shafer.
I'd be more than satisfied if he'd come here and make a post fessing up to the fact that the design decisions made in Civ5 turned out to be terrible and that the game sucks.
People will tell you "but wait! you are just a forum troll and the critical reception was magnificent!"
A reviewer is under a very tight time constraint to play a game and get a review written, particularly before launch. The problems with civ5 aren't immediately evident, but play a few games and they come to the surface. Look at the critical acclaim for Empire: Total War at launch; is there anyone who can argue that game wasn't an outright disaster?
Metacritic is full of games that garner critical acclaim but in reality are shitheaps. Gaming journalism is rife with two-bit hacks.
Back to civ5 - have a look at how many people are playing multiplayer. For a game that sold as well as it did, where is the multiplayer community? I'm not just talking the "pro" ladder league guys, but also the casual players. Multiplayer is a deserted wasteland.
Maybe Shafer will do great things at Stardock. I hope he does and wish him luck. But at the same time, let's not play politician when it comes to the blame game; there's no pussyfooting around the fact that civ5 is fundamentally broken by bad game design. Shafer himself claimed that their dev model favored the lead designer and his vision giving him a unique role in directly impacting the game and driving it. Backpedal that all you want, but the fact remains he bears the brunt of responsibility there.
Starting to feel more like politicians than game devs with all the doubletalk and claims that we, the ignorant masses, can't possibly understand the complexities involved!
How sweet!
It wasn't ruined, it's just very different than IV. Some people like the changes, and some don't...
Sorry azz but I didn't "beg" anybody to do anything. Now you smell like the biggest brown-noser of them all. Getcha a goood smell now. baw haw haw haw haw
There is a big difference between broken and different.
If the automatic transmission on your new car goes at 50,000 miles because it's using a new unproven design, is it broken or different?
Leaving aside the comments from the apparently 5-year Femmefatal...
Lots of people think Civ 5 is fine - many people don't. As is usually the case, those who don't are much louder on forums...
Full disclosure - haven't played Civ 5 because my interest in the Civ franchise has waned. But played all the others, and though I liked it a lot, Civ 4 had its flaws too. Certainly not a perfect game, and got to be a real drag near the end.
"lots of people think civ 5 is fine"
There are demonstrable gameplay issues (I'm not even counting the bugs). This isn't opinion, these are proven facts. I'm more than willing to hear someone refute the points brought up in anything I've posted, but the only defense anyone ever gives is generic stuff along the lines of what you just posted. "oh not everyone hates it"
Every one acts like this is some witch hunt because a few hardcore civ4 players are angry at the changes. I'm all for change, but broken gameplay is broken gameplay any way you look at it.
I'm sure there are demonstrable gameplay issues, perhaps even serious ones. I never suggested that there weren't. Never seen a game without them. If in your estimation, they make the game unplayable and you don't play as a result, then you are expressing your opinion in the clearest way possible.
Not sure what the reference to "everyone" is - I don't assume you're a hardcore Civ4 player - maybe Civ5 is the first Civ game you've ever played.
This is true, but some people have fun with the game in spite of these issues. There's no big issue that's a deal breaker for me.
Yo Mr.Shafer... you better turn EWoM fun... LOL. Welcome aboard... hows it feel to join this madhouse?
oh, fyi... im the curt a-hole drunkard; nice to meet you.
Seriously though... better go work now before more forum 's threaten to eat you or something...(its the something part that worries me
)
Ah the old "fun" argument. That's great. I mean, great that you are having fun with your toy but it's incredibly boring to those of us who like to be challenged. In this case, the broken gameplay mechanics mean that theres really not much room for strategies; it's all "infinite city sprawl." This in turn has gutted multiplayer because it turns into those who know the strategy and win and those who are "just having fun" and get stomped. The beauty of civ4 was that there were many different approaches that could be taken; small empires could compete with large ones, etc. Civ5 comes down to ICS; more cities is the key to victory.
Hey Shafer get in here and tell me you made a bad game so I can go away. I just want you to read sulla's analysis of the bad design choices made and nod in agreement. Hindsight is 20/20. You obviously didn't set out to be the guy who took civ in a bad direction, but it happened. Unless you are willing to see your own faults, why should we trust anything you do for stardock?
God forbid we have some transparency, eh?
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