I just red this post wich is locked out for replys. https://forums.elementalgame.com/347311
This is fucking BULLSHIT . fuck this country and there wack ass laws and regulations. i said this countrys goin to shit 10yrs ago, then we got bush for president then we got osama for president, now there sending people to jail for making a website. whats fuckin next, i say we support them some how by doing mass priated material handouts and every retail software store with free pb logos on each case,
i understand support smaller companys but cold day in hell im giving EA another penny of my money for the crap they push out wiht there 6month pc game deadlines.
Not to shift the discussion, but anyone claiming to be a "Moral Crusader" has forgotten a number of very important lessons our species has learned over the last 4 thousand years. The good and the bad are categorizations without real meaning. You say that digital piracy is theft from those seeking to feed one's family, but your entire argument only attempts to morally align theft with forcing children to go hungry. This may sound good rhetorically, but has quite serious flaws in logic. If we were talking about theft from a subsistence farmer, you might have a point, as this directly effects the farmer's ability to feed his family. Yet, this is not the case. Your point seems to be that you would like all piracy to end so that every unit of product sold then goes back to those who made the product. Sounds good on paper, but you make a certain assumption which has been shown in peer reviewed works to be untrue. The assumption is that those actively downloading copyrighted materials would purchase the product if they could not simply get it for free. Before going into why this is untrue, we must simply ask ourselves as specific question, Do this even sound true? Most individuals pirated copyrighted materials would probably not purchase the product at all, if they were force to pay full price for the product. While the RIAA states that piracy is a primary reason behind their lowered sales figures of the past year, this does not account for the overall rise in sales figures for other types of media which are as easily pirated as music. In general, console game sales were on the rise, even in the past generation when mod chips and soft mods were easily accessible. When looking at the recording industry which has pushed the anti-piracy agenda the hardest, one only needs to point to significant declines in concert sales for an alternate explanation. One can not pirate a concert as it is an event one must actually attend to get the benefit from. Yet, concert sales have been on a steep decline with only superstar headliners not feeling the full effects. Most concert promoters have in fact attempted to slash ticket prices to make up the large gaps, but still with little luck.
Going back to one of my original points, the world is shifting into a full information revolution. The last time, this happened 200 years or so ago, our world shifted so dramatically that most countries in the world had incredibly social and political revolutions. With the internet breaking down international and cultural barriers, we find ourselves again at the front of something radical that is changing every day life. This is not a debate over a single website, but over the nature of a system which is finding itself outmoded and ultimately flawed in the face of a rapidly changing world.
Anyone that claims the iraqui invasion was a designate of god qualifies in my book as a big dumbf***, and a complete nutcase.
I'm moving to canuckstan!!
LOL. It's only good for the torrent hoster. The uploader or downloader are still liable.
You might claim to believe in the golden rule, but you don't practice it, at least not on these forums. If someone disagrees with you, you pretty much go ape-shit, start foaming at the mouth and go on a rant about what a closet genuis you are and how some strange society of liberals is out to get you.
Sure, the guys is a tard, is that really any reason to attack a nationality? Whats next? An attack on his inferior gender, or something based on his ethnicity?
OSAMA IS OUR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!
if he was we could probably find him...
I would say that it proves Osama is a fictional character, but god damn if Waldo isn't easier to find than Osama.
The fact that you think copyright infringement is theft speaks volumes about your ignorance of the very laws you're advocating for. Major corporations who own intellectual property continuously lobby our government to make it theft, but it really isn't. They are also trying to get rid of any sort of public domain or public benefit from copyright. You see it used to be that the government provided copyright protection under the agreement that after a certain time these works would enter public domain for the benefit of everyone. You can thank companies like Disney for trying to prevent anything from becoming public domain for eternity. You see these laws, at least used to, dictate that ideas aren't protected, just a temporary monopoly on reproduction and distribution.
If you want to educate yourself, feel free to read the wealth of information, albeit even limited given the scope of copyright history and law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
The Golden Rule is the rule that you should treat others as you would like to be treated. Given that you're hostile and emotionally driven, draw short and black and white conclusions that are simple minded and ignorant, that you call people names when you can't think of anything better to say against their arguments, and that you're generally rude and socially inept, I suppose you expect people to treat you as such. I'm sorry for giving you more respect and dignity than you both show and expect from others.
At the end of the day, you're intellectually bankrupt, and ignore the broad spectrum of things that contradict your narrow world view. People will pirate things for many reasons, and "not caring" is probably the last thing that enters the equation. I used to pirate games and music as a young person because I couldn't afford most of the music and games and movies I wanted, so I found a way to get them anyways. Did I break the law at the time? Sure, but the people you speak of who need to feed their children didn't lose any money from my actions, because the money simply wasn't there in the first place. You know what I have done since, having become a working adult with money? I've purchased nearly everything I've ever pirated that was worth having. In fact, I think in the long run these people have netted more money because of the fact I could find their work for free. Many musicians I would never have paid money to, because it's inconvenient or impossible to demo their music outside of internet piracy. Many movies I would never have watched had I not been able to download anything willy nilly. Many single player games that I wouldn't have payed $50-60 dollars for had I not been able to try them for free first.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that piracy is great. I'm merely sharing my own personal point of view to counter your simple minded nonsense.
I have 290 games on Steam, some on Impulse, a huge movie collection, many books, hundreds of CDs. If I ever pirate anything today it's for one of 2 reasons.
1) I always want to try something before I buy it. If I cannot do this outside of piracy then I will pirate it. If I like it then I will buy it. If I don't then I delete it.
2) If DRM prevents me from enjoying what I pay for, I will either crack it or download a pirated copy with DRM stripped. Under the copyright laws you seem so avid to protect, I also have a right to make a back up copy of what ever I buy, yet DRM prevents this from happening. I will crack or rip DVD's or games in order to back them up. Preventing me from doing so is against the law.
Funny how anyone who disagrees with you is labeled as whining. If anyone is whining here, it'd be you. Oh but I interrupted you mid sentence, continue:
No I'm not.
No it isn't.
You want to be a simple minded, ignoramus and simplify everything on a level that your limited cognitive capabilities allow you to understand them, and throw off insults and tell people what they mean, instead of listening to what they're saying. You have no argument, you have no thought. You have blind emotional reactions that say nothing, and mean nothing, outside of your little head.
So do I, and probably most people who you label as thieving, pirating, scum, but hey don't let me try to tell you you're wrong.
You must not have much respect for yourself then.
Not to be short with those defending a side that I myself am defending, but please do not antagonize or belittle those with the opposing view. It is in fact what these people want. Instead of furthering the public discussion, we spend our limited time and effort becoming side tracked by those who would simply destroy civil and intellectual debate. We all should be aware that many people are being taught that, when on the side of a weaker argument, one needs only to prove the willingness of the opposition to stop the debate in the face of petty words and actions. This individual does not care about facts or histories, nor does this individual care about being right or wrong. It is simply about making anyone on the opposing side look as bad as possible, and by addressing this individual's slanderous comments towards an opposing view points in a negative way we only give those comments validity.
That said, a criminal is not a good or a bad person necessarily. It is simply a person who finds themselves in a disagreement with the laws and customs of a governmental body. With respect to internet piracy, no single individual downloading copyrighted materials is in fact a criminal. The law clearly states that one must receive some real financial gain from the act for them to be criminally liable. Saving money is not a real financial gain, whereas selling burner copies of games with cracks and serials would be considered real financial gain.
I agree with you completely. I probably came off as negative, and probably wasted my time. His post was just screaming to be put into place using his own ignorance against him. I guess I fell for the troll bait.
It was a well written nice read. to most of you for keeping this discussion civil.
Funny how you link to things without refuting earlier arguments. Of course you can't, and instead use the pirates normal list of excuses.
When I was a child in the 80's, I wanted games too. There were tons of games. I only got $5 every month.
So how did I go about things? I saved my money until I could afford things. I didn't steal. THAT is the golden rule. I treated game designers with respect. I bought things when I could, I didn't take what wasn't mine.
If I made something scum like you would just take it. You don't follow the golden rule yourselves, you take what isn't yours and cause issues with commerce. You can kindly fuck yourselves if you hate what I say.
You are full of shit. You spend your time making excuses for yourself. You can't tell me that a single player game that is 5-10 hours long THAT YOU BEAT A WHILE BACK is something you would buy if you suddenly got money, because again you would be full of shit.
And the whole thing of people not losing money is bullshit, because in the past, and people today with scruples, save money instead of taking what they want.
You can attempt your bullshit with others who make as many excuses as you do. But all you are is a person with a million excuses to why they do things.
Talk to me when pirates start going to jail en masse about society treats them by and largely.
I don't treat people with kindness who have no respect for society, societies laws, and people's personal belongings. Neither will cops or prison. Neither will corporations, or employment, or pretty much most normal people.
I would suggest that most online thieves should get used to being treated like this, as again, you have no respect for anyone else.
I do find it funny that people who are jumping on my golden rule blurb are basing their entire arguments on NEEDING MONEY JUST TO HAVE MORALS. So if you have money, you buy things, if you don't then you suddenly have the rights to take what you want?
And as far as the golden rule is concerned, if someone broke into your house and stole things they would be different in your eyes then what you do. You make excuses for yourselves and try to pass yourselves off as non thieves to make you feel better about what you do. But the problem is, you are thieves who try to ignore the reality of the situation. You would treat other thieves differently in near identical situations.
piracy! it's like assaulting the ELDERLY or
MURDER
a. the 11 year old child that downloads the latest fad song to their latest fad device that allows any pirated media to be installed.
b. the fixed income grandmother that lets the grandchild onto her computer and has no idea WTH they are doing.
Children are probably a big part of the pirate downloading as they for the most part have no idea of the consequences or just don't care until they are caught. Then you get the proverbial shoulder shrug and the "I dunno" or "It wasn't me". I had to finally remove my mothers admin rights and all those download programs because the nieces and nephews were constantly downloading whatever they wanted and this is pretty normal for any kid I talk to. I don't really like kids anyway so lets empty out the schools and throw them all in prison. Batman can pay for it.
If we all stopped having children, future generations would thank us.
You are using an extremely illogical argument. Noone is saying kids should be condemned differently for this crime than for any other crime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
It was not meant as an argument. Just wondering if my 80 year old mother is going to jail or my 11 year old nephew. I think it should be my sister for supplying the mp3 device that allows pirated songs on it.
Ahh hell, throw the lot in jail.
The child broke the law, so a suitable punishment should be sought. Obviously this does not include jail time, or a lifetime in debt. A fine for the parents is usually a good first step, and in case the offense is repeated, possibly seek to put the child in juvenile detention, as the parents/guardians are unable to care for the child.
I generally agree with HeavenFall here. If a crime is committed, a suitable punishment should be sought. Yet, In America, if a teenager walks into a record store, grabs a CD and walks out without paying, the individual in question is issued a reasonable fine for the theft of the CD, usually in the $100-$200 range. If a similar teenager goes online and illegally downloads the same CD, this individual and his/her family can now be sued for upwards of $500,000 per song downloaded. Looking at our two examples, the crime in the first case is far more severe than the crime in the second case, as the first individual is knowingly harming not only the industry producing the product but also the store and its employees who actually own the physical CD. The honest truth is that we as a international society find ourselves in a precarious situation. On the one hand, the copyright enforcement is not universal on the international stage, and secondly, even in countries where copyrights both exist and are enforced, the enforcement is lax at best. Because of this, our world has yet to be forced to discuss whether these laws and regulations are either legitimate or even workable for the long term. While we might think that this is a simple debate about downloading music or games from the internet, it is really a much larger debate which covers things like birthday cakes and pinatas.
Great post kenata. I agree.
Best regards,Steven.
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