Some old ideas, some new ideas, both big and little that need to be considered to improve the Game.
Races need to be each unique either through appearance of armor and weapons, and/or through bonuses and penalties. Each race should look different in their armor. Having slightly different eye/skin/hair color among the 6 tribes of humans means shit under the armor, they all look alike.
When creating a custom faction, we need to be able to tell which bonuses don't work with Empire or Kingdom, seems simple, but apparently not. Also, when I am choosing colors for my faction, I should be able to see it modeled on the...um model on the right. Hard? Think not. Also, I should be able to change skin and hair color for my factions.
I should be able to play agaisnt enemy factions ,and I should have the ability to design their AI like I was able to do in GalCiv2.
When starting the game, I should have the option of how many neutral factions there are, how many resources there are, and so forth, options, options. Things that we had in GalCiv2.
Minor factions should be a little more active, and have a large diplomacy rating so AI doesn't just wipe them off the map for no gain. Let them at least arm themselves, have a few spells, and maybe a few troops and send out caravans. They should even be able to create a little army, and maybe have special troops that can help allies. Like if the Orekeepers ones had troops with that pressed iron armor and longswords they make, they could at least protest themselves, and if they are are conquered, instead of them disappearing, that neutral city is special and can only produce their special troop and items, making them both valuable to keep alive or conquer, depending on how you play. Also, non human factions would be nice.
Quest are too few, and fairly pointless. Why put the work into getting the Sovereign sword, when by the time I have it, I have better weapons? Orthe Sov Shield I can buy. Make quest items special for the whole game and unique. More quest, and have them pop up randomly. Also, maybe a random event that is centered around one of your champions and they have a quest. "Viy, you must seek out the great Sage at Darkroot Mountain" and then Viy gets some special item or ability. Something like that.
When you take a tech that produces the resource, please make the fucking resource pop in my fucking area. Great, I got darklings that showed up in Kraxis control, hope they pick the same tech and theirs shows up over here so I can use it. Dumb people, really.
And Stop letting other factions create cities in your area of influence. So stupid.
Sovs need to follow the int requirements of casting, or you need to make int more important to the damage that spells cause, otherwise, I will continue to make retarded Sovs.
Make allitems usable for everyone. Why can only humans of the race of men can wear the Azor quest armor or the the pressed iron armor and why can't Ambrose wear human armor? Frustrating.
Add "wizardly" items to the game. Maybe I don't want all my Sovs, champs, or children to be iron clad warriors. How about magic robes that don't offer as much protection as iron armor, but add dodge bonus, and magic staffs that work like bows?
We need separate light armor tracts and heavy armor tech paths, maybe I don't want to specialize in heavy steel armor, maybe I am a iron poor nation, so I specialize in armor that needs less iron, but provides more mobility and agility? Add back in the scale and chain armor and make them an alternative to the heavier, more iron costly armors.
Champions need to be more diverse and interesting. They are all human now, they all have boring clothes or leather armor on. Wow, boring. They should be each of a race or nationality, and list it in their description, "Viy a Yoren", or Tarth, or whatever, and since every faction has a unique look to them, armor wise, they will stand out in your army, most likely as they have their own armor look and color scheme. Neat, huh? Also, a Champion with a city based profession, like farmer, should gain exp every turn he sits in a city that uses his skill. They should have different personalities, and maybe form rivalries or enemies with other champions, they should have loyalty and a glory stat, if you are not giving them chances to gain glory, like combat then they get less loyal, or if you keep using a farmer to fight, then they lose loyalty. Champions shouldn't be killed, they should be captured and put in prison and traded on the diplomacy screen.
Tactical combat needs a complete overhaul. Units need ZOC, meaning that you can't just rush past the unit or through units. Spells and Arrows need much smaller ranges, you should have to position yourself to land a good shot. We need meaningful terrain. 3D terrain like in Final Fantasy Tactics battles, or at least rivers, mountains, forest, things that change movement, line of sight, and dodge bonus. Movmentand positioning, make up, of your armies should be very important. Unit types, like Heavy, light infantry and mounted should provide bonuses based on the terrain that the battle is fought and who they are fighting. Look to Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Brigandine, and Final Fantasy Tactics for ideas. They are old games, so don't tell my the new fancy game cant do it.
No reason to have the entire kingdom disapear like a fart in the wind when the Sov is defeated. That should casue the faction to have a new leader rise up, either a child or a Champion, and maybe the remaining empire splits up into factions. Also, see Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
Need random events, like the ones that GalCiv2 had and FFH2 had. Also, more interesting world places, like FFH2 had that trapped angel, that stonehenge thing that provided certain bonuses with some of the factions. Or giant dragon bones, neat shit like that, that makes me think, oh cool, this part of the world is special, unique.
Thats's it for now, sure I will think of more.
Read carefully: I can't seem to get the quotes right.
I agree with you. Yes, making separate armor designs would be well worth it in the long haul, but I understand that would take too much time.
I would make a minor faction have only 1 or 2 units: it's unique units with different looking armor and weapons. For example, one minor faction could have the Japanese-themed armor. Instead of following a tech-tree, these minor faction units will upgrade on their own in defense and attack ratings, as well as in squad size. Because these units are unique, we should make them a tiny bit stronger than the common unit of other players to keep them always competitive. They will never attack or defend against other player but it can only have it's one city. Any other city it attacks is razed or is given to it's ally.
Ya, that would be cool.
I see your point as a game designer. But succession was one of the reasons I became interested in the game before it shipped. It would add more depth to the game as well.
I had the impression that Succession was a sneaky way to gain control of your enemy's cities through marriages. I don't want to kill my Sov to replace him with his kid.
As for succession I'd like to see your Sov age and die not matter what. It would make children much more valuable and add a cool story element. The Total War Games use this all the time. Its kind of fun to work and grooming your heir for kingship. If you don't get your kids out for some real world experience you'll be left with a Prince Herbert who refuses to marry Princess Looky.
This makes me very disappointed. In fact, it is the first thing I heard that makes me want to shelve Elemental completely. The idea of having a medieval-fantasy game where dynastic politics plays little or no role is outrageous, quite frankly. Doubly-so since the game seems poised for some wonderful dynastic dynamics (trying saying that twice fast!).
As others have mentioned, it was the concept of managing a royal line that really got me excited about Elemental in the first place. Other games have dabbled in it, but Elemental seemed like it really was going to dive in in a Crusader Kings sort of way. Comments like this got me really excited by the possibilities:
Gamespot preview: Elemental will have a somewhat randomized genetics system that will spawn children that tend to resemble one parent more than another--but when a child is born, he or she will take many turns to mature enough to adulthood and manifest his or her statistics. So, whether or not your kid ends up having his or her father's swordarm or mother's wits won't be clear for many turns (this is to discourage players from constantly reloading a saved game to get the best possible set of statistics for their offspring). However, when a child is born, he or she must choose to join the nation of either his or her mother or father. In order to increase the odds that your grandchild will join your nation, you'll need to release control of your sovereign's offspring (who gave rise to the grandchild) to that other nation, losing that offspring in the process. EWoM For Dummies: Coats of arms (1) It'll have custom and dynamic coats of arms, but it'll be a visual thing for the Dynasty system instead of something to give various bonuses. As families marry and expand, you can imagine the parts of different logos being combined in various ways (or so Stardock's planning atm). I forget the source for this one: In Elemental, one of your abilities will be the governing ability. The more cities under you control, the more overhead cost there is to run your ever growing kingdom. At some point, it may become advisable to turn some cities into vassals. A vassal state is a city (or group of cities) that is originally founded by the player but has been made independent by that player. It becomes its own independent faction controlled by the AI. Initially, as a vassal, it is allied to you. But being independent, all bets are off of what happens in the future. It may join up with someone else, combine up with other vassals to form a new kingdom, or even go on its own to try to become a major faction in its own right through a path of conquest. "One could picture a large game where there might be dozens of vassals who form ever changing alliances throughout the game."
Gamespot preview: Elemental will have a somewhat randomized genetics system that will spawn children that tend to resemble one parent more than another--but when a child is born, he or she will take many turns to mature enough to adulthood and manifest his or her statistics. So, whether or not your kid ends up having his or her father's swordarm or mother's wits won't be clear for many turns (this is to discourage players from constantly reloading a saved game to get the best possible set of statistics for their offspring). However, when a child is born, he or she must choose to join the nation of either his or her mother or father. In order to increase the odds that your grandchild will join your nation, you'll need to release control of your sovereign's offspring (who gave rise to the grandchild) to that other nation, losing that offspring in the process.
EWoM For Dummies: Coats of arms (1) It'll have custom and dynamic coats of arms, but it'll be a visual thing for the Dynasty system instead of something to give various bonuses. As families marry and expand, you can imagine the parts of different logos being combined in various ways (or so Stardock's planning atm).
I forget the source for this one: In Elemental, one of your abilities will be the governing ability. The more cities under you control, the more overhead cost there is to run your ever growing kingdom. At some point, it may become advisable to turn some cities into vassals. A vassal state is a city (or group of cities) that is originally founded by the player but has been made independent by that player. It becomes its own independent faction controlled by the AI. Initially, as a vassal, it is allied to you. But being independent, all bets are off of what happens in the future. It may join up with someone else, combine up with other vassals to form a new kingdom, or even go on its own to try to become a major faction in its own right through a path of conquest. "One could picture a large game where there might be dozens of vassals who form ever changing alliances throughout the game."
All these ideas made me very excited about the game. It finally seemed we were going to get a living, breathing medieval world where we weren't just gonna be crushing other empires, but we needed to manage our own internal, dynastic politics as well. Now it seems that isn't going to be the case (any time soon, anyway) and that really breaks my interest in the game. And it just makes no sense to me. Why even have a family tree and offspring in the game if it doesn't mean anything over the long term?
I understand your perspective on it, but I also see the benefits of having an actual succession system. Your children now become extra lives in a fashion. With that alone comes a very powerful and meaningful thing in terms of even having children. You can use them as diplomatic bargaining chips, you can use them as champions of your armies, but most of all they are what keeps your dynasty going if your leader should die. If you want to wipe out a kingdom or empire, you need to hunt down and extinguish the leader as well as his/her heirs. I can see an evil kingdom that you are enemies with declare "We will not stop until all of your family is wiped from the face of [insert world name]!", and with that they will specifically look for your heirs and hunt them down no matter where they are.
I don't think it would rob Elemental of anything, instead of focusing on a single sovereign it would instead focus on the dynasty. On top of that, the Kingdom and Empire systems could have different types of succession. Your sovereign would be the foundation of which your dynasty begins, so that in itself is a pretty important thing.
I think the ideal compromise on this issue of succession is to leave it up to the player. Why not make immortality a mid to high level spell that can be researched? That way the player can decide how to proceed:
1) If the player is really enamored with his sov and can't imagine playing the game without him, then he can research an immortality spell and cast it. Benefit: your sov never dies! Detriment: you could ignite a dynastic war where your children might 'go rogue' and declare war on you and try to take your kingdom by force. Maybe even the queen will get involved in the struggle. This spell would also make immortality an interesting 'project' to research, instead of just assuming sovs are immortal for some strange reason. I could even envision an immortality 'arms race' taking place between kingdoms with such a spell included in the game.
2) But if the player doesn't really care about his sov all that much, or he is really keen on replacing him with his smarter/stronger/wiser son, then the player can choose not to research immortality and just see how things play out. Personally, this is the route I would choose as having a change of leadership mid game can make a stale game seem fresh again.
I think this is the best possible solution. The AI should be able to make the same choice, too.
I would support succession if there was option of your sovereign being able to ridiculously prolong his lifespan. It would have to be a high level spell to cast, and possibly require upkeep too. That's why that mad duke always stays in his special tower! Maybe your sov can be immune to old age as long as he's hiding out in a tower. For non-magic builds I would suggest there being something more or less equivalent available as a high level quest, where you can discover some magical place or item that will keep you from dying. I think there should be some sort of attention it requires though, not just become undying and not have to worry any more.
[edit/update]
Alright how about this: The spell of "immortality" requires upkeep that grows as the sovereign ages. In long games the amount of mana required to maintain the spell can grow to near unmanageable levels. But - if your sov can successfully take control of Laboratory of Morrigan the Mad - your sov can stay there without need for maintaining the spell, just whenever he comes out.
I like it!
What about if the soverign dies then the kingdom gets split between the children.
Sometimes the kingdom transfers well (direct replacement by progeny of choice), Sometimes kind of well (sucessor is forced to kill/exile his siblings and thier progeny but retains the kingdom intact), Sometimes not at all well (some proportion of the cities and units go to rival progeny which is then at war)
Then taking out the sovereign may produce some divided neigbours who would be fighting each other as well as you.
I feel like I need to throw in my 2 cents here, even though it sounds like I'm in the minority, but I really like playing an immortal leader of a nation. I get attached to the guy I've created, and likely would end the game when he died, anyway.
*ducks and covers*
I actually like both ideas of having an all powerful sovereign that your game depends upon and the ability to have a succession. Put it in the option to choose one path or the other. Force the AI or if in a multiplayer game other players to follow the same rule set. There are some really good ideas for having a dynastic progression, though if there are enough changes to truly make the sovereign special and standout both options should be viable. Allowing the player to choose would add more replay, and appease players which want one or the other.
I also saw two competing ideas for exactly how progression could work. One where you're trying to make superior children and another that had any offspring be much lesser than the starting sovereign. I'm not sure if both concepts here could be implemented in that case, but surely simply having a choice between a dynasty and a powerful game deciding sovereign might be fun.
I believe that dynasties should truly have something unique to add to the game, though both succession and a more meaningful purpose behind dynasties should be looked at.
Make it possible to toggle succession on/off when setting up the game. Extra stuff that revolves around succession can wait till an expansion pack if it seems enough people want it, but in the mean time it would greatly improve the AI's ability to stick around (which is important in single player, especially when defeating a faction causes everything they own to disappear).
Regarding immortality:
Considering that Morrigan the Mad tried to gain immortality and failed, it should not be possible to gain it through normal means but instead be a special event (quest).
I think items like the Sword of Wrath and Legendary armor should cost gold and 1 elementium each. This would make those items a lot more special and rare, also you couldn't as easily create squads of legendary armor wearing and sword of wrath wielding champions. Maybe add a crystal cost to them too, and minor magic items like rings. I now agree that a champion and unit should be limited to the number of rings and necklaces they can wear, two rings, one necklace, etc. This would help create unit and champion diversification.
Example:
Shop prices
Sword of Wrath, 5000gp, 10 Crystal, 1 Elementium
Ring of the Pickle, 10gp 1 Crystal. (makes all food taste like pickles, kind of a waste of money and crystals, unless you really like pickles)
Also, Ive been thinking about the Sword and Shield of the Sovereign quest, as I love them and think they are awesome and the game needs to have more and they need ot be updated. I would like it if not only could you finish these quest, but you could get quest to find a special enchanter and then that enchanter would join a city(maybe as a special building, or create a resource) that then would provide you the ability to buy special items.
You have no proof of this
I could be happy with either option. Either make immortality a setting when creating a game, or make it an in game spell/mechanic. Personally, I think a spell would be more interesting because a) the player still gets to choose how to treat his sov and b ) it would be one of those "epic, game-changing spells" that EWoM so desperately needs. I would like to tie such an immortality spell to control of the shards. I think it would make sense and also make shard control much more important.
A means of succession NEEDS to be included in some form. Any other decision will severely hamstring the gameplay as far as I am concerned.
I think the spell "Imbue Champion" should be removed from the game. I don't like it thematically. I want only the Sov and children of Sovs to be able to use magic. Or the imbued ones should be very limited in what spells they can cast. I hate the idea that the imbued ones might be better casters than the Sov or his/her children. I think INT should affect abilities like "Administration", "Farmer", etc. The smarter your farmer is, the better the bonus % bonus of food the city he is stationed in receives. OR, maybe use Int for some of these abilities and CHR for some of the others, or use both. Maybe my administrator gets bonus % based on his Int and Chr?
I agree with that idea, too. I never use that spell because I just don't like the idea, either. This is one of those areas where EWoM seems to be at war with itself. Sovs are supposed to be unique, all powerful beings blessed with magic...but for some reason this special ability can be easily transferred to rank and file folks. Huh?
The over-arching problem with Elemental is that there really doesn't seem to be a coherent vision of what the game is about.
At the outset it was supposed to be a difficult decision because it would cost essence which would permanently weaken your sovereign. Now it is just like any other enchantment.
Traditionally there are two was in a fantasy world to become immortal. The short route of undeath or the long and much harder road to godhood. Either would make for a fun game mechanic.
Well, a little late to reply but when talking about caravan, I have some suggestion to the "guardian" idea: you can have an enchantment on the road itself that make some invisible "wall" or you can summon a guardian unit with the caravan like the guardian ward with your city. It should grow with the level of the route instead of the level of the city, or maybe (CityA level + CityB level)/2, something along those line. For the dynasty thing, I dont "really" care about my sov because I merely keep it in my capital... dont know what to do with him .
On succession: For AI factions I think that it is a must have. I just doesn't make sense that the entire empire, all the people and cities and units just vanish when the sov dies. I think succession after an AI sov dies has LOTS of implications. Like:
the faction is taken over by the next in line for the throne. However parts of the faction (units, siblings, cities) may decide to join an Ally's faction, or join a faction who has a spouse from the original one, or split among various successors if the next in line to the throne is not powerful enough to stop them. They could even take off with a powerful champion of the faction and start their own minor faction with a new sov. Options like this would make the whole political make up of the game change.
For example: the factions splits in two and you have to decide which of the two you are going to maintain an alliance with. the other faction swears a blood oath against you both. Or your strongest ally suddenly has their empire ripped apart and now you are left with a weak hanger on who is constantly calling on you to fend off the attacks of stronger foes.
Succession of the AI factions also allows for the introduction of assassination attempts, new option on the conversation screens to plot the over throw of enemy or friendly sovs, with there offspring. or to have your own offspring if they grow too strong may try and rest control of the kingdom from you either in a military coup or through your assassination.
This adds the option of creating quests to discover who was behind the attempts. or sending spys into other cities to try and detect future plots on your life. or sending spies to implicate others in plots that you attempted. a whole new arena of game play is now available.
And if your faction kills the other sov, the new ruler could either swear an oath to avenge his parent or send you a large chest of gold in appreciation for helping him gain the crown.
As for succession for the player: It's a simple check box option on the game screen, either you want to have the game end with your death more like a RPG style (which is the way I would prefer to play), or you can check a box and play as a empire style where when you die all the same things happen that can happen to other factions when their Sov's die can happen to yours.
On minor factions: these can make the game much more interesting if they are given the AI to expand and play a real role. Sitting there waiting to die is not really interesting. but if you give them a special function/ability that can be harnessed through an alliance with them, then they are worth protecting. And make the special ability disappear if they are destroyed so that there is a reason to work with them instead of just overrunning them.
On Caravans: A warning that a monster is in sight is a great option. But even better when a monster is seen have the caravan stop turn and run! instead of blindly traveling down the road right into the monsters hands.
And when the caravan is destroyed at lest show us where it happened so we don't have to hunt around to find where they might have been. Also to that window instead of just an "OK" button, give us one that says rebuild and resend that caravan or just rebuild it and send it some place else. Simple enough to add the caravan to build que of the proper city.
On Imbue champion: This is a deal breaker for me. It HAS to be in the game. If you don't want to use it don't. But I like to play with MAGIC. If I want to just play with sword and bow wielding troops I can play total war and have lots more of them with less lag. I generally have one or two mage's in every party and I want them to be game changers in a fight. My biggest disappointment is the lack of creative spell that they have to use.
On making units look different: I understand this would take some work, but it really should be considered important for a game that sacrifices so much playability for looks. Having major and minor color schemes for each faction should be at least. Should also be carried over to champions who come with their own personal color schemes. And at least make changes to the Helms, Shields and chest plates of factions. What should also be looked into is having the different models for male and female. Why have a separate researchable item in the knowledge tree to build female troops if they just look the same as male troops?
On capturing a hero,offspring,sov: when you win a battle with a champion unit have the option popup at the end of battle to finish them off, or take them prisoner. Heros and wives and offspring can be traded back on the trade screen just as heros are currently. capture a Sov and you can release him not only for tons of gold resources and possibly a city or two, but you should also be able to take all his stuff and gain some magic spells from him.
Which reminds me, when we defeat a champ or any unit, have them drop their weapons, armor and what ever they are carrying. We should at least get these spoils of war.
AND FIX THE HORSE ARCHERS! it makes no sense that horse that are supposed to be in battle are standing around looking back and forth as if they are as bored with the fight as we are waiting 15 - 30 seconds for them with every shot. If you can't make them stop all animation, then at least reduce it to a stomp and whinny! That one is KILLING ME!
Whew! that has all been bottle up for awhile, I feel much better now.
OH and the option for an immortality quest/spell/combo of both, would be GREAT! Otherwise if you are playing in RPG mode you would have a limit on the age that you can achieve. Thus putting pressure on you to complete the quest as you get older.
OH one more then I need to get back to work!
For caravans protection just allow the guard option the you currently have for a unit to apply to other units. Then they can select the caravan and your forces will travel with them. Seems a pretty easy option to handle protecting caravans.
The game has never been about the Sovereign, for me. In many games, I have totally forgotten my Sovereign, and focussed more on his offspring or Champions. When all Chanellers have the same spell books to draw from and can use the same equipment - what really is the USP of the Sovereign? And to say that the game is not about the Empire is rather baffling, when it so clearly is about the Empire - or you wouldn't bother putting so much effort into building cities and pushing your boundaries to new, resourceful lands.
Succession is the one ground-breaking thing that could hurl this game from averageness to greatness. Be bold in your decisions, don't accept the middle ground.
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