Ok, so I decided to create a new Chatroom, because the old one was getting pretty....old!
Everyone may post here, as well as in the good'ol Flameroom...I mean, Chatroom
I would like to keep this Chatroom civilized. Well, as civilized as most forum threads are (doesnt mean that you all have to be polite like Oatesy, lol).
So for this reason, I may update the OP of this thread in the future, posting certain thread rules, as I see fit.
For now though, post away, and everyone is welcome!
Currently these users are banned:
- ArcticBlunder
Wow... We certainly do have our share of problems... Oh the wonders of relative anonymity.
Well, first, my words of advice.
Whiskey: You still friends with her? Don't let a friendship slip because it didn't move on to something else. Enjoy the friendship for what it is, not hate it for what it isn't. Love her as a friend, for what is, and don't hate her for what she isn't. Some would simply say "get over it," but friends are worth the time. You haven't come across a boundary, or an end, but a new direction. Two people can be far closer platonically than they could ever have been otherwise. Life has ways of surprising us, don't lose hope in it.
Storm: I would say much the same to you. I don't know, but doubt that you are still in contact with this person. They don't seem to be an amazingly nice person from what you've said. Your world is set by the boundaries you give it. There are 7 billion people in the world. One quite frankly malignant seeming person pales in comparison to the number of potential true friends and even partners out there in the world. If one thing ends, don't shut down, spread out! Nothing hurts the self more than isolation.
BTW do you mind if I inquire as to your religion?
Which brings us to my problem. Religion. I am a baptised, confirmed Christian. From birth I have been raised in Christianity, not too many years ago I consciously acknowledged my faith and got confirmed. Now I doubt my faith.
There are many differences between human beings. Wealth, upbringing, race, and of course religion, are some examples. Now, I am an incredibly understanding, accepting person (if I do say so myself). I do not judge people on some pre-set stereotype, I know each person for their actions, which is what truly defines who we are. I am also very open to the ideas of others. I don't see the world in rights and wrongs, but in opinions. I understand that every living being has their own understanding of the world, and it would be foolish to shut out the myriad opinions of others.
But in religion I suddenly see a blocking point. In acknowledging that Jesus is the one true saviour of humanity I instantly say that I am right and that everybody else is wrong. I am not a man of prejudice, as I have said. I am also a man who likes to forgive. I do not believe in a hell, I believe that all is forgiveable, and that any person can know true repentance.
But I cannot deal with saying that you are wrong, and that I am right.
I think the background to this is the girl I mentioned. She is Indian by origin, and a Hindu, at least by background. I don't actually know how religious she is, but anyway. I have this key issue that I must say that she is wrong and that I am right to be a Christian. I can't do this. I don't know what I believe anymore. How can the good-meaning man draw such a line in the sand? I don't see an answer.
Help would be appreciated, if only just a listening ear (or rather a reading eye).
The above may not flow well. It was one of those storm of emotion kind of things...
Also, listening to 30s/40s jazz because it's awesome. Got invited to (and joined) the super-elite jazz band at my school. Ridiculously difficult, but I'm loving it.
AFAIK, yes, I am still friends with her. It's "AFAIK", because I haven't actually been able to interact with her in any way for 3 or 4 weeks now- and I generally used to see her on a weekly (then biweekly, on account of working every other Sunday) basis.
Most of the "get over it" is getting over my romantic inclinations for her- I'd explicitly mentioned to her when I told her how I felt that, if she was not of the same feeling, I greatly desired to retain our friendship.
And I think I'm making a new friend, too. Once again, a girl- though she's a TA at the school on the GCC campus.
I'm not sure whether or not this is directed at me, but I'll answer it anyways- I'm a fundamentalist, evangelical Christian. Or at least, that's the terminology that closest describes me.
Doubt happens to believers. I myself struggled heavily with doubts- though it was never regarding the truth of the Bible and salvation, but rather of the status of my own salvation.
There's some things I agree with, and some I don't here- and some similarities between myself and you. I generally don't 'stereotype' people, as it were- though I will do so when working my job, as I am in security. Usually, though, I judge a person on their actions and words.
That said, I understand that there are many differences between humans, but I am not nearly as accepting as yourself. I am not too open to the ideas of others, depending on where they come from (actually, the 40K saying "An open mind is like a fortress with its gate unbarred and unguarded" describes my opinion on that matter quite well). And I see the world in a very black and white manner- though there's a great deal of grey.
Well, I think the best thing you could do is read your (I assume you own one) Bible. Because the fact of the matter is:
1. Christ is the true Savior of humanity. Since you claim to be saved, and of the Christian faith, that does make you right- and anybody who believes otherwise, wrong, on that matter.
2. That said, the point is that you're saved. Which means you should want to share that saving faith with other people. I'm not saying that you should try to convert people- that's God's job. Your job, as a Christian, is simply to tell people the Gospel. God takes it from there.
3. Hell is a real place. It's a Biblical concept. And, unless you hold that the Bible is not the infallible Word of God Himself, then you should simply accept that Hell is a real place.
4. There is an unforgivable sin. I forget offhand what it is, but it has something to do with total rejection and/or the worst blasphemy possible.
5. If you think "how can God be merciful and loving if there's a Hell", then think about this: Mankind is inherently sinful, evil, and utterly depraved.
And yet we still are permitted to live out our lives. What a GREAT mercy that is, that God does not simply eradicate the human race, or kill everyone as soon as they are born!
But what if you really are right, and the other person is wrong? What if one of your superior officers is wrong about how to attack a position, and you are right- and if that officer follows through with his plan, then a lot of men will die. Whereas vastly fewer, or perhaps none at all, would perish if your plan was used.
Has she expressed interest in Christianity? If not, then you can still ask her about, and talk to her about your faith. Remember, it is NOT YOUR JOB to convert people- ONLY to tell them the Gospel. Once you've done so, your work is done- you move on to the next unsaved person who doesn't know about it, and tell them. Repeat ad nauseam.
Rules:
I've only got one, the first time someone trolls or flames this topic for any reason, I'm out.
Also, this is not a widely known or practiced religion. As far as I know, I'm actually the only member, although I do have several beliefs in common with Wicca and Shamanism, with the exception of the following:
My religion, as I've stated before, stems from the belief in magic. Beyond that, and the relevant fact here, is that I believe that every spirit/soul/what have you stems from a plane of existance called the Ether, and that where you return to when you die depends on the choices you make in life. Part of that belief is that if you choose to willingly end your life for no reason, your soul will simply not be reabsorbed into the Ether. This does not include sacrificing yourself to save another, however. Eventually, all spirits are reincarnated for one purpose or another. Mine was to be a Guardian. As such, I am absolutely compelled to help anyone who asks me.
What most people would call gods, I see as the realms of the Ether. The realm I belong to is Cailyn's, Lady of Forests, Night, Passion, and the Moon.
I know of five others, but don't really want to get into it right now as I know next to nothing for sure about them.
-Twi
I'm a Lutheran
I don't have much to say, about it other than some people may be wrong about what they believe. I personally don't care all that much about what they have to say if it interferes with my religion.
Not to say that I won't hear them out, but it is more difficult
I think that we can manage that fairly well.........for a couple of pages, at least.
Sooo.......you created the religion yourself?
Very Buddhist. Though I will note that it is physically impossible, excluding the usage of mind-altering substances, for you to be compelled to help anyone who asks you- after all, you wouldn't help a criminal commit a murder, or rob a bank, would you?
So you believe in at least some kind of supernatural, super-entity, and some kind of Ether-realm thing that I quite frankly can't make heads or tails of.
Well, that makes sense. If you don't know anything about them, then don't say anything about them.
I do not think that means what you think it means.
Clarify and expound on this subject.
Clarify.
Not much to comment on what whiskey said, except we may have different views on what the word help means. I wouldn't call assisting in a crime or malicious act helping, it would be the exact opposite, driving the person towards their own destruction. Help implys you will make life easier on another person.
Writing a song, might post the lyrics if they're good enough.
The Church I go to is a Lutheran Church and that is what my mom says I am. As you could probaly tell I'm not an extremely religious guy.
I mean some people who believe in alternate religions may be wrong in their beliefs. I don't really care what they are saying if it direclty interferes with my religion.
I will listen to them, but if what they are saying is against being a Lutheran, then it is much harder to hear them out.
What type of song is it?
I'm personally an Anglican Universalist.
And I'd like to say that I am reconciled with my faith. Thinking through, I should have been more confident in the fact that God has a place in his heart for everyone and everything, regardless of how they live their lives. Then again, I am a Universalist, so I'm less evangelical than both Nilles and Whiskey are.
Anyway, it's going to be a country song based on a story my dad wrote for a sermon. It's in the style of a "I shot the sherriff" gun-slinger ballad, but it transpires that the Sherriff was shot by one of his best friends, and said sherriff happened to be called JC.
Basically, a sort-of wild west re-telling of the betrayal by Judas, with the lyrics themselves being the laments of Judas as he goes to hang himself.
The final lines:
"So here I am with not a hope,
With a heavy heart and a length of rope,
Seeing my sins are so broad in scope,
To join JC tonight..."
Creepy, amirite?
I am a crazy devout member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.
I do everything I'm supposed to do without any thought in other directions; you could say that I'm closed-minded, but I prefer to view myself as having found something that truly works. If you have something that you truly believe in, then why look at other people's churches?
I was born Mormon, I am Mormon, and I will die Mormon. Flame away. I get an odd amount of hate from the most peculiar people; I've been labeled as a polygamist, a cultist, a hypocrite (not sure why the person said that...), an anti-Christian, and an America hater. (Really none of those are true except the fact that I am a hypocrite occasionally. I dare you to find someone who is never one...)
@Oatesy, that's rather sacrilegious in my book... no offense intended, I'm sorry, but fashioning that story into a wild-west makes me want to vomit. (I probably shouldn't have posted my opinion, I'm sorry...)
@CmdrNilles, you seem to be rather closed-minded likewise...
Interesting... I knew it would receive mixed response, but then again Sherriff JC's name is never specifically revealed.
Perhaps think of it as alluding to the events in a different setting.
Would you think the same of, for instance, a modern-day retelling of the Gospel?
Furthermore, Mark, Matthew, Luke and John all tell a slightly different story. Are three of these four versions sacreligious?
I have to say that I feel like the odd Christian out in this little group. You all seem to be very... set on what's right and what's wrong. I'm afraid that's not my style.
Just out of interest, how many of you take the Bible as literal truth? I'm sure you can guess my views on that matter, but I'm interested to hear yours.
I don't mean to offend anybody, but here's my view since it was asked.
I believe there is truth in the bible, but I don't believe anything written, or at least, very l,ittle of it actually happened. Instead, I believe it was written as metaphore.
I think that it is man's interpretation of events. The old testament to me is almost like background material, sort of saying "this is what the Jews believed before Jesus came along."
The new testament I think of as men at the time's interpretation of what happened. After all, the Bible never claimed to be word-of-god, it's just what we wrote down.
A phrase I have just thought of: The story of Christ is not a thing of the past, set in stone. It is a story being very much lived today, in the thoughts and actions of all God's people, regardless of race or creed.
Then you're not actually a Lutheran.
Which you more-or-less do not actually have.
Which means you just like Lutheranism better, but are only marginally knowledgeable of it.
Still not Lutheran.
Meh, I think that this is better:
"The Madness is Power/The Cake is a Lie (x2)
This Madness is Faith, this Cake is the World-
Now you know what I live and breath,
So won't you join me in everlasting peace?"
But then again, that's about all I've got for that particular bit. There's another one that's very heavy-metal-rocker, which has a chorus like this:
"You Traitor [TRAITOR!], I gave you my heart,
but you Traitor [TRAITOR!], you smashed it to pieces!
You Traitor [TRAITOR!], you were my everything,
but you Traitor [TRAITOR!], you made my life a lie!"
Why would I engage in such a pointless act as that?
The Gospel doesn't need any form of retelling. That is all.
It's actually quite simple- they're all true, but each writer had a slightly different emphasis on Christ's life that they wrote about. For example, John emphasized the divinity and Christ-is-God aspect of Christ, while Luke focused more on the Messianic aspects.
Like I said, each one is true- but each one is written in a different style, and focuses on different events and aspects of Christ.
Can't quite make out yours- but I can guess that it's closer to a "Bible=guidelines". My opinion?
The Bible is the infallible, inerrant, divinely-inspired word of God.
And that's all that needs be said.
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of your heretical blasphemy.
Emphasis mine.
Once again:
I'm sorry that I'm being harsh, but that's what I believe, and I'm not going to just sit here and be quiet about it.
I rest my case. Is Luke God? Is Matthew God? Is Mark God? I think it's beginning to look pretty unlikely that John is God. As far as I'm aware a God-written Bible didn't fall from the sky into the hands of these men, they wrote the interpretations of what happened from hearsay. It is the life of Jesus taken through the blender of human interpretation several times over before being written down, and still changed after that.
What about the old testament? Is that immutably true? Would God truly sideline you if you were born before Christ, simply for not being Jewish? Was the universe created in the space of seven sunrises?
Ultimately, in my opinion the bible is almost secondary in the duties of a Christian. It is a repository to learn from, and it is the job of the person who has learned to live life to the best of his abilities in the love of God. And my relationship with God involves me being open-minded, considerate, and caring. A good listener and good at giving advice. All can be loved, all can be forgiven.
I get the feeling that once we figure out what Nilles actually believes I'll be exclusive in that regard here.
Anyone got any pics on here that I can look at? At least tell me a page number?
@Are you Zach?@
[EDIT]
You also need to edit your new post under this one, I forgot the @Are you Zach?@ thing.
This ain't that kind of bar, stranger.
I know, but i'm just bored right now, I feel like this website is dead, only 3 posts from any game is still going, this one, banned forum, and the last person to talk wins. Those are the only active ones I see, besides dnszr dude, and only few people are on here, also, i might not play Galciv2 no more, i'm going to minecraft, only cause galciv2 is causing me problems that I can't fix, it might jsut needing an extra requirement, oh well, i'm going to play minecraft, on minecraft, my name will be Dragonvich. See you on the flip side.
I never contended that any of those men were. What I'm saying is that God divinely inspired these men to write exactly what they wrote- meaning that, even though it was written by human hands, it is the very Word of God.
That said, all four writers of the Gospels WERE THERE for all the events they wrote down. THEY WERE THERE. They knew what happened- and so they were able to write it accurately. Nevermind the above, wherein I point out that it's divinely inspired.
Yes, it is true- but the Mosaic law has been overturned and is no longer necessary, having been replaced with the New Covenant. Note that the Mosaic law was never intended to save people- but actually to point out their sinfulness. Also note that a fair amount of the Mosaic law, specifically the dietary restrictions, was actually a method of protecting the health of the ancient Israelites, since people of the day didn't have the methods to properly prepare or preserve such things as pork.
RE God sidelining people- notice that Abraham, who lived before Israel even became a nation of any kind, let alone a sovereign one, "believed in God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness". Even Rahab, a Gentile, and a prostitute as well, was permitted to join with the Israelites on account of her belief in God.
The Israelites were God's chosen people, yes- but they were by far not the only people He intended to be saved to Himself before the coming of Christ and the delivery of the New Covenant.
And yes, God really did create the universe in the space of a single week. Suck it up. He's God, He can do that.
Excuse me, I just puked a little on account of the blatant heretical blasphemy I just read. If you read the Bible, you will see that all cannot be loved, and all cannot be forgiven. There is even an unforgivable sin, that being the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit (which is akin to when the Pharisees said of Christ, 'His power is of Beelzebub [that is, Satan]')!
Being considerate and caring, yes, I agree with that. But open-mindedness. Well, I think that this phrase:
"An open mind is like a fortress with its gate unbarred and unguarded."
sums up my opinion on that quite nicely.
And as for the Bible being secondary to the duties of the Christian- the Bible is where we, you know, LEARN WHAT THOSE DUTIES ARE. So it's basically the handbook for being a Christian- which automatically makes it more important than our duties, since it is the place we go to, you know, figure out what those are.
I get the feeling that that's not the case, on account of a serious doubt that we'll actually figure out what Nilles believes.
This is not a website for pornography. In fact, there are specific rules against posting such on this, or any, Stardock forum.
I automatically don't like you, and will also never play Minecraft, since you are playing it and you asked for reference to pornographic imagery on a site that actually bans people for posting even the links to such content.
You suck.
You quote an autocratic, xenophobic, and corrupt fictional organisation which worships a corpse, exterminates all that does not conform to their view of perfection, and will mindlessly slaughter all those who do not share their beliefs to the letter, and even those who do. Not a great source for philosophical inspiration. You may as well quote "Mein Kampf" in a similar fashion.
And if that is unchangeably true then I cannot love God, and cannot be a Christian. Even if one does "blaspheme against the holy spirit" (an incredibly loose definition in itself), even if their fellow man cannot change their ways, then simply being presented with the truth from God himself after death should be enough for them to see that they were wrong. I believe that there is a line somewhere in the Bible which reads roughly as "God cannot forgive those who are unwilling to forgive their neighbour." I don't believe God would hold double standards.
My apologies, that was poorly phrased by myself. What I meant was more on the lines of the fact that the book is, as you said, a "manual," and that it is not about reading the book but about living it, and that you can live a good life without it. See every good person born before Christianity was widespread.
Err, on that topic, religious debate is the sort of thing which Admins get jumpy about. For the continued health of the topic, I suggest that we either agree to disagree or feel free to PM me any further thoughts.
*looks at Oatesy*
Really? You're pulling the Nazi card? REALLY?
*deep breath*
Okay, the reason I like that quote, is because it's simply an accurate metaphor for what I consider open-mindedness to be in regards to certain things.
I'll further note that the Imperium is excessively bloodthirsty because 99% of all other non-Imperial entities are trying to exterminate it, usually also in as brutal and violent a manner as possible. Not exactly comparable with Nazi Germany.
On a side note, what's wrong with autocracy? Under certain circumstances, it's quite useful and functional.
Of course He doesn't. It's just that every single human is unimaginably depraved and sinful that the very fact that we are allowed to live our lives is an incomparable mercy in itself- that God has, in His infinite grace and mercy, given some a Savior for eternal life is far and away a greater gift, one that humankind in no way, shape, or form deserves or merits.
There's a reason that hell exists, and that unsaved sinners go there in the 'afterlife', as it were. It's because they're sinners. Unrepentant sinners go to hell because they refuse to see their sin as what it is- wrong, and more importantly, offensive to God.
That they are confronted with this after they die is pretty irrelevant- your time living is your one and only chance. If you don't take it then, you don't get a second one.
"Every good person" has nothing to do with it. Again, see Abraham. "He [Abraham] believed [in God], and it was accounted to him as righteousness." If you have a 'good person' who believes in Allah, well, then they roast, to be blunt. Abraham believed and trusted in God- that's why he was considered righteous in God's eyes- his faith in God.
Now that we have the Bible, it is the Big Book of All Useful Stuff for Living on Earth. More importantly, it is the divinely-inspired Word of God, which tells us the story and history of salvation, and even informs us of the end times*.
Living a good life doesn't get you into heaven- only by accepting that you are a sinner, repenting of your sins, and trusting in Christ as the eternal savior of mankind**, do you become saved and, upon death, enter into heaven.
*I don't believe that we're in the end times- but it's getting closer. How much, I couldn't tell you.
**Baptism isn't part of salvation- anyone who says otherwise obviously is either cherry-picking the Bible, or hasn't read the relevant passages. Baptism is an outward expression of the inward reality of salvation- and should never, ever be done by an unbeliever.
Alas, I doubt that I will ever bring you around to the truth. So we'll simply have to disagree and leave it at that.
Since whiskey's getting defensive(Offensive) I'm gonna back out of this one, because my answers to the latest questions/comments will just fan the flames on the horizon.
I'm not taking any further part in this debate, at least not here. Mods don't like this kind of stuff.
Sometimes it's a good shock card, but you're smarter than that. My point however, is that the Imperium of Mankind doesn't demonstrate a sterling example of christian values.
As I said, I am debating no further here. I don't agree with a lot of what you say, as you can tell, but as I have said many a time, I appreciate the world's diversity, and it has been interesting comparing religious beliefs with you.
Moving on,
"Get out of here Stalker."
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