Ok, so I decided to create a new Chatroom, because the old one was getting pretty....old!
Everyone may post here, as well as in the good'ol Flameroom...I mean, Chatroom
I would like to keep this Chatroom civilized. Well, as civilized as most forum threads are (doesnt mean that you all have to be polite like Oatesy, lol).
So for this reason, I may update the OP of this thread in the future, posting certain thread rules, as I see fit.
For now though, post away, and everyone is welcome!
Currently these users are banned:
- ArcticBlunder
Called being nice. More people should try it.
I didn't so much mean, or else, but that it would be rather cold of someone to not remember those that died
And there is the proof that morph had this place on life support before he left. We've been going downhill on post count ever since. (I'd almost given up, I think...) but morph makes one post, and this place get's a pulse.
Anywho, just thought I'd shout out to those of you who play Sins and are on Facebook, that the Sins facebook page is asking people what they'd want in a collector's edition, in case you didn't know that.
-Twi
I don't have a Facebook so I wouldn't know unfortunately.
Saw it. Don't really spend to much time on Facebook...........ironic, since I've got the "Find Friends" bit open in another tab.
Yo all (I am never ever going to say yo again I promise), time to jumpstart a conversation.
So, I was wandering why we don't get any WW2 games in which you play as a German soldier. I mean, I know some reasons like developers are usually American, and don't think that shooting at Allied soldiers would sell, bla bla, but I wanted to find out what public opinion was, so I surfed the net.
The bigotry of the Interwebz soon became clear. People were regularly spouting such crap as "why would you want to be a Nazi?" "How can you endorse the murder of 6 million?"
Since when did German conscript equal high-ranking Nazi party political officer? Surely your average German soldier was a human being just like the average British, American, or Russian soldier?
Gentlemen, debate.
I concur, I don't understand the general public's attitude. I would be really interested in battling in a Panzer or a Tiger tank. I also don't get why everybody thinks that a soldier is the same as one of the politicians, as you had said. The only reason I can really think of is that they are simply ignorant.
Since the majority of Internet-dwellers, particularly among the more vocal cesspools, a la The Pit Which Shall Not Be Named, are not going to logically think about such things. Logically, the player character in a German-combatant-themed shooter would be a member of the Wehrmacht- while the PC might be an officer (particularly if in the position of a tank commander), it is entirely reasonable, logical, and AFAIK, historically supported that the majority of German enlisted personnel, and a fair portion of officers, would have only a token involvement in the Nazi party.
In layman's terms, PC != evil Hitler-loving Nazi war criminal. However............the first impressions of such a title would either doom it to becoming a complete bomb, or forever relegate it to the group of fringe games that you don't tell people "yeah, I play that game (too)". You'll probably tell your closest friends and (if applicable) significant other. But not some guy you're chatting with online or walking down the street.
That said, I wouldn't buy it anyways- not "on principle", per se, but because WW2 games don't particularly interest me. OTOH, that might be because I spend a lot of time thinking on how to create a 'homebrew' ruleset for a very action-oriented, narrative RPG-esque game system for 40K. Primary inspiration comes from the 5th Edition BRB, the Inquisitor (and to a lesser extent, Necromunda) ruleset(s), and the Dark Heresy and (probably, as I've not yet looked it over) Deathwatch RPGs.
The goal? Offering a narrative-driven, action-oriented RPG-esque experience. Come to think of it, in some ways I want the DoWII campaign system in a TT format, and primarily -I-. A 'starter' game would be the GM-controlled Inquisitor, and the PC Acolytes; eventually, it would get up to a 2-5 character warband per player, with a couple of GM-controlled NPCs.
My take, is that the gaming companies think they'll sell more by promoting the "Good Guys". Although they're dead wrong. There are more and more games out where being evil is a very real and game-wise accetable option, even though being "Good" is generally seen as the cannon choice. They just don't want to commit to evil as the main aspect, and when people hear nazi, the first word that comes to mind is evil. Evil or saurkraut...but usually evil.
My two cents, anywho.
And Whiskey, that game-plan sounds awesome. I've concidered doing the same thing(As far as the war-band part goes) with D&D, but I've found that more than 2 characters becomes a lot for one person to handle. Never played 40K, is it easier/simpler to play?
Interesting; however, it's closer to "RPG-Lite". Some basic mechanics I'm definitely using:
Each player chooses a basic career path and specialty within that path. They then, using a certain, fixed number of points, upgrade their character's statline, purchase skills, weapons, and other wargear items (like various grenades, or tools). Generally speaking, I'd mandate that each player give their character a name*- however, supplemental warband members would actually be pre-named, and start as NPCs which the players can recruit to their cause(s).
Since the initial points limit is ample enough to outfit a character, and still have some points left over (or have a surplus of weapons and wargear), they can use said points/extra gear to outfit recruited NPCs.
In a starting game, the GM would control the Inquisitor, who directs the warband- each player then has their own character.
*For the most part, I'm going more for RPG-lite and action-heavy. I want the game to be something that takes no more than 30 minutes to go over the basics- and that's with a group of 3 or 4 people. Background/motivations for characters can come later, and are desirable for a campaign, but generally speaking, I'm more interested in making it a cinematic, narrative action-oriented experience.
A good way to think of it is "like a Michael Bay movie, only with plastic minis on a tabletop, and in 40K". Note that that ignores any criticisms for Bay's film making, as they aren't particularly relevant.
Though if you could elaborate on the "3+ characters=hardmode", that would be very helpful.
........
Ooh boy, you had to give me a hardmode question. Alright, the short answer is that actual 40K is pretty easy to get into. The short version of the long answer is that it's very, very, complicated.
There's no less than some 4-6 different 40K tabletop games. And that's not counting the PnP RPGs that Fantasy Flight Games makes (linky, 40K is Black Crusade, Dark Heresy, Deathwatch, and Rogue Trader*). These non-FFG produced games, IE 40K games produced solely by Games Workshop, are:
1. Warhammer 40,000. The actual, and original, TT game. Currently in 5th Edition; competitive metagame revolves around mechanized infantry lists. Usually games are played at 1500-2000 points limit, so take a couple of hours to finish. Smaller games are possible with the standard missions, anywhere from 500-1250 points. For less than, or more than, that, you'll need to pick up expansions: A. Apocalypse. This is where you go for OMGWTFBBQ-huge games. The basic 40K system holds up pretty well up to around 2500-3000 points limit, where the "Force Organization Chart (FOC)", used to organize and limit an army's choices (so you can't field an entire army of super-choppy commanders), breaks down. Apocalypse games are for 3000+ points. AFAIK, the only upper limit on the size of an Apocalypse game is either "doesn't fit in whatever gaming space you have", or "collapses table under the weight of the models". Final Word: at US$50, it's an expensive book, and it'll take a long time to put together a collection of your own minis that would allow you to play it. If wherever you play 40K at offers regular Apoc matches, then picking up a copy is handy- and generally, you can probably find someone to team up with to make up the points so you can field an Apoc-size army.
B. Battle Missions. Offers a bunch of alternate scenarios for playing 40K. Of note (IMO) primarily for the 3 special missions- Kill Teams, and the names of the other two (which I'll start with) I forget. One is based around killing the enemy's HQ (commander) unit with your own. Generally, you'll want a named character from each player's chosen army's HQ section, but unnamed HQs are acceptable if you haven't got any GW-official named characters on-hand. The second puts three Baneblade super-heavy tanks (thus requiring the Apoc book, BTW) against a 1500 point normal 40K army (1 BB=500 points). Pretty simple- the Baneblades try to kill the army, and vice versa. Kill Teams uses a modified FOC to allow for small games of 200 points- generally speaking, that's a lonely ol' squad running around- with the caveat that you don't deploy the squad as a squad, but as ten independent models. KT has a lot of loopholes that the designers didn't think about, primarily revolving around vehicles- but the format is a lot like Apocalypse in that being a Rules Lawyer will probably get you left alone without any games to play. KT is about having fun, and on a small scale. Final Word: US$30. Pricey for just having the KT mission rules if that's all you want, but a great deal if you'll use the other scenarios too. Overall, you'll get a lot of use out of the book. A great choice for a starting 40K'er.
C. Cities of Death. Pretty much, it's rules for playing 40K in urban environments. It was actually released during 4th Edition, but GW's site has a FAQ/Errata doc that updates it to 5E, and number of concepts in Cities of Death were actually used in the 5E BRB. It's pretty simple, but putting together a Cities of Death battle can be expensive, in either time or money, or both- that terrains' not going to put itself together! Final Word: US$30. I'd recommend this if you wanted together an urban warfare KT set up- as KTs are very cheap to collect model-wise (it's the books that'll bite your wallet!). Cities of Death+BM for KT, along with the BRB and 2-3 armies, and 1-3 squads for each, will be a great way to put together a series of games for yourself and a couple of friends.
D. Planetstrike. A similar vein to Cities, in that it's oriented around a single facet of 40K warfare. In this case, planetary assault. Games have an attacker and and a defender, and uses a modified FOC to emphasize the rapid nature of it. It's actually quite 'cinematic', as the defender's bastions are reduced to rubble and the terrain on the board is generally going to change every turn. Final Word: US$30. If you want to throw your men into the teeth of enemy guns (from orbit no less!), or perhaps want to gun down the enemy's men that are being thrown into the teeth of your guns, this is for you. It'd require a bit of work, but you could probably adapt it to KT, and any of the expansions can be combined, in, well, any combination.
E. Planetary Empires. As expensive as the Apoc book, but also includes a tileset. This is useful if you want to build a campaign using a Risk-style strategic map. Otherwise, skip it. Could probably be useful with a combination of KT, Cities, and Planetstrike to put together an almost L4D-style zombie (or alien, or daemon) campaign.
.....................
Will cover the others in separate posts, to cut down on OMGWTFBBQ-HUEG posts.
And I see a kinda-sort failed anyways. Still, it's not too bad. Also, this post is leet. Karma if you get it.
................
1 (CONT). It seems I neglected a key aspect of THE 40K game. It's a strategic wargame. Other than that, the above is all correct, and I only forget to mention that one bit.
2. Necromunda. A skirmish-based game, oriented around gangs of a hive (giant kilometers-high super-city structure; houses millions-billions of people) on the planet Necromunda. Rules are based on 2E 40K, AFAIK, and are from what I've heard somewhat........broken. However, Necromunda is what you play if you just want to have fun, and have funny gaming stories to tell to your friends, because the somewhat broken ruleset means crazy stuff can happen. And said crazy stuff will usually be funny as well. Final Word: With the rules being available as free PDF docs on the GW site, the only issue will be terrain (you'll need lots of it) and minis- and the official Necromunda minis are all metals, and expensive (a box of 8 costs US$40!). The scale, however, is the same (or very near to it) as the 40K minis. And plastics are much easier to do conversions on, so you'll be better off with them.
3. Inquisitor. Narrative wargame. Requires a GM. And minis. And terrain. However, you can use any scale mini you want- the official Inquisitor line is 54mm scale, but I would say that you'd be better off working with the 28mm scale plastics of the main 40K line- much more conversion/personalization opportunity, easier to work with than metal, and you can still use them for Necromunda or base 40K. It's more RPG-themed, and far closer to the fluff than base 40K. Final Word: you'd probably be able to do this pretty well. D10 based (unlike the D6 love that every other 40K game has), with some D6. Like Necromunda, rules are available as free PDFs off the GW site. Note that as Inquisitor uses yards as the distance, you'll need to use a scale system of [x measurement]=[1 yard], as you DO require minis.
4. Epic Armageddon. Like Apoc, only 6mm. One way I heard it put was "[Epic miniatures] aren't minis, they're leftover bits of sprue!" As in, Epic minies are FREAKING TINY. OTOH, you'll be fielding large-scale fighting formations. While Apoc can do the same, a large-scale Epic formation can use a normal-sized gaming table (and will range over it far more) than Apoc..............which requires giant-hueg tables. Final Word: rules are available as free PDFs on the GW site. Minis are pricey, but you also get a *lot* of them- they're just raeg-inducing tiny. A full EA army will run you about the same cost as a full 40K army, but the rules are free and you're battling on an enormous scale- a massive warmachine will often be included in an EA army, whilst it would only see use in an Apoc game at normal 40K scale. The downside will be finding other players- though if there's a GW store in your area, you might be able find a few people with some EA stuff, that you can game with.
5. Battlefleet Gothic. Spaceship combat, 40K style. Rules are free PDFs on the GW site, normal-size gaming tables suitable. That's a 6x4' table, BTW. 4x4' works at smaller points levels, I think. Interestingly enough, BFG and EA are the only 2 games that use the metric system. A small 500 point list would be around 3 capital ships. So generally, you could probably put together a 4-ship list, with about 70 US$- including tax! That's per person, though. Terrain is very simple- just use the PDF templates for planets/asteroids/whatever else. While you can model full-on planets and whatnot, the templates are perfectly suitable. Final Word: it's spaceship combat, 40K style. I think I've covered it pretty well.
6. Space Hulk. And now we come to venerable Space Hulk. You liked the Alien movies (particularly #2, Aliens), you'll love SH, as the premise is a team of Space Marine Terminators (IE, superhuman supersoldiers in even-more awesome durable armor) going through a Space Hulk (giant mish-mash of spaceships and asteroids that floats through the Warp (FTL, but also Hell)) for useful stuff. There's Genestealers on it, and the 'Stealers want to eat Termi faces. It's actually a board game, and fully self-contained. Currently 3rd Edition. Final Word: as with all things, there's a not-so-good bit. Space Hulk is out of print. While you can find copies on Amazon or Ebay, they'll cost 200-300 US$. I think it's totally worth it, on account of the OOP-nature of it, and the fact that I'd love to have SH. Minis are 'color-coded', as it were; Termis are red, 'Stealers are blue. You could get away without painting them- though I'd paint 'em up, because it really adds to it.
I'd go on to the 40K RPGs, but they're a whole other kettle of fish. Minis not requires, Pen'n'Paper, D100/D10 based. From what I've read, Dark Heresy's psychic powers system is somewhat broken, but it's not too bad and can be mostly ignored if PCs aren't Psykers (psychic people, IMMAH KILL U WIF MAH BRAINZ).
In a nutshell-
Dark Heresy: you're Acolytes of the Inquisition. More importantly, you're expendable Acolytes. Horror/Mystery/Investigation. Combat is very lethal if PCs stand around in the open- a good rule of thumb I've read is "if your PC is not in cover, SPEND ALL ACTIONS RECTIFYING THIS".
Rogue Trader: PCs are a Rogue Trader and his retinue. Rogue Traders are like free merchants, except they wheel and deal and are very capricious and generally have fully-armed warships for some of their trade fleet. Probably one of the funniest RT stories I've read was a French-themed RT basically playing both sides of an alien-controlled world that had a rebelling human population, for the "fue grais (sp?)", that weird French food made from goose liver. A notation is "Rogue Traders do not get mad. They have people to do that for them". For fun, the PC that is the epynomous RT should try to not get mad (in character)- they have people like the Arch-Militant (bodyguard/weapons master) to do that for them.
Deathwatch: Most would say "you play Space Marines, who are superhuman supersoldier badasses (and would beat the hell out of hundreds of Spartans, BTW), and you go kill stuff". RP will consist of interaction between PCs- such as kill-challenges (a la Gimli and Legolas in LoTR), or disagreements based on each Marine's background. This is one that I'd actually try to get my sister into, as she played DnD once and only killed a single goblin over 2 hours (and was rather horrified at such an idea), since it's more about the "GO KILL STUFF" than "RP STUFF".
That, and I like Space Marines, they're awesome dudes.
Black Crusade: Rather than being Imperial, you play as Evil Chaos Dudes. Not a whole lot of info, as BC hasn't been released yet.
And now I leave you with this:
Your analysis is hugemongous...
BAM!
And then I take my leave, yet again...
Meh, that's what happens when you've got a setting that stretches back for almost 25 years.
OH MY GOD! I just realized that 40K's 25th anniversary is in 2012! THE WORLD CANNOT END ON THAT DAY /sarcasm.
...
Seriously though, I only just realized that, as, IIRC, 40K started in 1987. I also don't think the world will end in 2012.
EDIT: *facepalm* can't believe I forgot the 'd' on the end of realized.
Are you talking in the wrong tense again?
Bad Whiskey...
I do not honestly believe that the world will end anytime soon...
2012 is a myth.
And whiskey, my brain actually started to cry...I'll have to read all that in sections so it'll take a while to get a reply, assuming I survive the process...
Although, I will say that based on what you said about using a point system, it seems highly compatable with GURPS. (To be fair, GURPS was designed to be compatable with all RPGs though, so there's that I guess...)
For those who don't know: GURPS: Generic Universal Role-Playing System. It's the newest RPG I'm trying out(And Ironically, one of the older ones made, although I'm using the newer 4th edition rules...)
I decided to back away from D&D after I realized they've almost killed it in 4th edition...Wish I had the money to track down the 3.5 books...
-Twi | My brain needs cookies...
You have done a marvelous job of completely disregarded the original topic of conversation. Well done.
I'm going back to playing guitar.
Well.........I probably did go a little overboard. But yeah, there's a lot to 40K on the tabletop.
The only issue is that what I'm trying to build isn't a Role-Play system- it's closer to playing a Michael Bay film on a tabletop. Lots of action, with some roleplay. And I also must use a miniatures-centric system- not only is it cool looking, but is a great visual aid.
And facing up your character versus a towering Chaos Marine is visually impressive, too.
..........Well...
You could always use the resources of the interwebz to get PDF versions of the 3.5E DnD books.
In (my) defense (at least), I considered the topic to be fairly well settled with what little discussion we did have.
I've got a friend who plays guitar, and at one time I too did play that interesting instrument. But I'm not going to be a rock star..........at least not with a real instrument. A synth-score though, maybe.
..............
I now feel very depressed, since now I'm thinking about my guitar-playing friend. Who may or may not be a girl.
I have a guitar-playing friend. Who most certainly is a girl. I quite like her, as I can tell you do yours.
Oddly-formatted story time kids!
July 24th-30th
Summer camp. Said friend is their- 'fun fact', her mom asked me to watch over both her and her younger sister. AND I DID. God was I tired when I got home on the 30th. ~18 hour bus ride, with little or no sleep? Yup. I actually found that I have great difficulty sleeping on buses.
July 30th-August 12th
I realize that I like said friend. A lot. And by "a lot", I mean "Oh my God, I think she's the one". I resolve to tell her.
August 13th D-DAY
I tell her. She tells me she only sees me as a friend.
August 13th-20th
Try to, and do okay, at dealing with the sorrow of a broken heart. Drowning said sorrow in blood, fire, and bullets helps.
August 21st-present
Still trying to deal with it. It's hard, and it hurts to think about it. Drowning sorrow in blood/fire/bullets helps. It gets easier every day.
Alas, I haven't seen her in a while- that's really the hardest part.
EDIT: you know, you guys are the only ones I've told this. Obviously, this gal knows, but that's because she was the person I liked, and I told her.
But you guys? You're the only other humans ON PLANET EARTH who I've directly told this to. Besides me, her, and you guys, NOT A SOUL KNOWS.
First how is it oddly formatted?
Second there is a girl I like a lot, but I'm to nervous to talk to her.
Whatever, but my lowest grade in school is not my Ap class it is oddly my Physics.
*sigh* And there goes my plan to ignore you for the rest of this page and the next. Oh well.
It's a story. Stories aren't usually built on a timeline framework.
There is so much I want to say about this, but simply cannot. So I'll cut to the chase: you can go ahead and tell her. In fact, I encourage you to do so- it may get easier to do so the more you end up having to do it. Other than that, unless you and her are both prepared to wait a while in order to form a long-term, committed relationship (I'm assuming romantic), then forget it. It'll end, you'll be heartbroken, and worse off for it.
WUT?
Pathetic fact about Twilight Storm, since we're on the topic.
I got dumped a while back, and I'm still hung up on the girl, even though I actively try to let go.
The pathetic part being, it happened 6 years ago...
I think it's because she never actually gave me a reason why...her words were "I've learned all I can from this relationship."
I shut down mentally for almost a year after that other than the day to day stuff, and only avoided suicide for relligious reasons...namely, that I'm not allowed to commit suicide...
So there's my rant. Now I'm just passively depressed most of the time and hide behind sarcasm.
And that, I've only told you guys, the random people who will pop in here to read this without ever posting, and possibly Xer0, don't remember. But since he posts here too on occasion, that's a fail-point anyway.
@Whiskey: I skimmed over that, would have read it, but it was just too much dude. From what I gathered, it's a pretty cool game, I may have to give it a shot when I get some money to throw at it.
As to what you said about not trying to build a role-play system, it actually sounds like you are, but one more focussed on combat. I'd take a look at the GURPS 4th edition rules, there is literally nothing you can't do in that game. Use your contacts on the interwebs to find said PDFs...lolz
For money-saving, BFG is a good way to go- and Inquisitor and Necromunda can be a good way to go, so long as you can dedicate some time to turning empty milk jugs or soda bottles and lots of various types of plasticard and foamboard into terrain.
Since you're already familiar with PnP RPGs, I'd actually suggest the 40K RPGs- though I've heard parts of Dark Heresy are somewhat broken (the Ascension book, which is basically "okay, you WERE Acolytes, but now you're full-on INQUISITORS!" is pretty broken). ProTip RE Deathwatch: PCs only really work as the Deathwatch Marines.
I'd consider it, except that GW's Inquisitor system is actually pretty close to what I'm aiming at already- hence what I'm using. The other thing is that I've no idea how I might handle a monstrous creature, like, say, a Mawloc (giant space snake that LITERALLY devours you from below), or a greater daemon with such a system- while I already have an idea for it in the system I'm building.
The RP-ing, is very minimal. Background/motivations are pretty optional (though they do enhance immersion, obviously), while names are mandatory (gotta keep track of who's who!)- leveling is.....to be dealt with, whilst skills are more to represent the difficulties/training requirements of wielding certain weapons- Special Rules will be used to represent other aspects that might be skill-related.
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