Ok, so I decided to create a new Chatroom, because the old one was getting pretty....old!
Everyone may post here, as well as in the good'ol Flameroom...I mean, Chatroom
I would like to keep this Chatroom civilized. Well, as civilized as most forum threads are (doesnt mean that you all have to be polite like Oatesy, lol).
So for this reason, I may update the OP of this thread in the future, posting certain thread rules, as I see fit.
For now though, post away, and everyone is welcome!
Currently these users are banned:
- ArcticBlunder
So morph...it's still snowing hehehe.
Are you really comparing modern weapons with WWII weapons?
Here we go with the SUSAT again....
Dude, the scope doesnt magically increase the weapon's effective range, it just allows its user to be more accurate with the weapon.
So it has 400m effective range, not 600.
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/support-weapons/1458.aspx
You obviously read wiki, which isnt being too technical about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA80
The thing is, that iron sights, SUSAT or ACOG scopes, dont really change anything that makes a difference in effective range. They dont increase barrel length, nor do anything else for that matter, besides providing its user with better aim.
That is all.
"We were inhuman beings....butchers on a field of corpses....corrupt and depraved....only a sum of viscera, blood, and bone - Creatures without soul."
@morph- Oatesy actually *did* say that ironsights/SUSAT/ACOG doesn't magically change the difference in effective range.
Though I'd contend that a scope makes a sniper rifle have a much longer effective range (by virtue of allowing the user to actually *see* what they're shooting at).
http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/SA80
That is one of the places where I did my research, though know I look at the Wikipedia page, it appears that this is very similar.
But Morph, as Whiskey said, if you were to take, say, an L115A3 sniper rifle, which is stated by MOD to have an effective range of 1100m plus, (source here: http://www.mod.uk/defenceinternet/factsheets/l96sniperrifleandl115a3longrangerifle.htm ), do you reckon that that is counting using the scope, or would you take that shot with no magnification?
Of course, with my natural marksmanship capabilities, I could shoot a target 1100m away with no magnification (Limey Man says that is a lie, but what does he know ).
My point is, that surely effective range is the maximum distance at which the rifle will reliably put rounds where it is pointed by a person (as one is needed to fire the weapon), which would seem to be 600m, if you stick the standard-issue sight on it. The ability of the person to see properly doesn't cause the rifle to exceed its capabilities, but in fact stops it from achieving its full potential. I have also seen plenty of people on other sites referencing the higher effective range of the L85A2 when with a SUSAT.
My conclusion, as you may have already guessed, is that, rather than the SUSAT magically boosting the effective range, the admittedly poor, in my and others' opinions, ironsights limit it. As I said, I'm seeing people across the web mentioning how the effective range increases with a SUSAT, though the exact figures vary from 500m to 650m.
Perhaps what you think of as effective range is more like "physical" range or something. What the rifle can physically do when you discount the fact that somebody has to see what he's shooting at to fire it. If a tank has had its sights destroyed, then you could say that its effective range is zero, as the crew can't see where the enemy is.
"You think wrong. Let me fix that for you."
Fair enough.
Well, I dont know as I havent actually tested the weapon's effective range, lol
But normally, it should list the weapon's practical/physical effective range. Like I said earlier in my post, a scope doesnt change anything in the weapon itself, except maybe make it a little heavier (not much of a difference).
So basically, taking any kind of weapon (handgun, assault rifle, sniper rifle, etc), and placing it on a steady base, to reduce recoil to nearly 0, adjusting it to shoot a target at a designated X meters, with the target and the weapon being leveled, you can find out the weapon's effective range, which btw, isnt absolute (X meters - Y meters).
If the bullet drop is too great, then the weapon is out of its effective range.
If the weapon's user is limited by the inaccuracy of the iron sights, and a scope helps them aim more accurately, then that is up to the user, and not the weapon.
A weapon's effective range is relevant to the physical limitations of the actual weapon, not the limitations of its user. You can be deadeye accurate with any weapon, but if the weapon you're using is out of its effective range, then a little volley shot and calculating where the bullet will drop might help you, although the weapon is technically out of its effective range by then.
http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/45acp.htm
Read the Table of Fire. Note that at 100 yards, the M1911 with the .45 ACP rounds has a bullet drop of 28 inches, which is too much. The weapon is out of its effective range, because the bullet drop is too great.
I dont have time to find something similar for an automatic rifle or anything, atm, but the same principle applies to all firearms.
You can expect similar results for an L115A3 sniper rifle, just with a lot greater range than the Colt 45 (of course, lol). After a certain X range, the bullet drop will start being too great, and that means the weapon is out of its effective range.
So if an L85 can achieve 500m-600m "physical" effective range with a SUSAT, then its "physical" effective range is at least 500m-600m. My understanding of effective range has always been that it is a combination of the weapon's capabilities factored in with the fact that somebody has to use it. Though if we are going by the idea of bullet drop, then it would seem that the ironsights information is irrelevant, and only the maximum effective range with the best magnification available should be made known. However, if maximum effective range is to be affected by human factors, then it would seem appropiate to list the ranges with different sights.
BTW, on the subject of effective range definitions.
"Maximum effective range is the maximum range within which a weapon is effective against its intended target."- http://www.army-technology.com/glossary/maximum-effective-range.html
"This distance is supposed to be the farthest that an averagely-trained soldier using that weapon is supposed to be able to hit a man-sized target consistently."- http://firearmspedia.com/maximum-effective-range/
I would quote more, but I'm going to bed now. I think that maximum effective range is a term that many attribute different meanings, which may lead to some confusion.
Correct.
Practically yes, technically no.
I suppose you could say that.
Definition of max effective range in a very general way.
And then it continues: "But this number is rather controversial."
Yes, I think you can agree that we are both correct. It really depends on how you see it. I am being more technical while you are being more practical about this.
So overall, if you are talking just about the weapon's capabilities, then take into consideration something like this:
SA80 - Maximum effective range: 600m/656yd (with SUSAT)
While if you are interested in the maximum effective range acheived in practice, look for both iron sights, and *insert scope name* scope attached to the weapon.
Lulz.
I go on my CCF expedition for all this time and only two posts and an animation?
Disappointing lads...
I've had school.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgWVs4kslVw&feature=related
I think Altaux might have posted this animated fat guy about 1 million times by now
Care to embed it, mate?
And I've had things to do.
↑Gets annoying after the first 7 minutes
On another note: Damn, first time I played such a good Xin carry. Enemy morde had thornmail, sunfire, and GA, and I owned him, lol. Even though he was fed
Psycho Girlfriend. Watch the whole season from the 1st episode:
Really? Ive been listening to it for 5 hours.
I'm listening to.........................Well I'm not sure if I want to say what I'm listening to. But I greatly enjoy it, I'll tell you that.
You are a pirate!
That's beside the point and, honestly, not related to what I was listening to. I didn't want to say mostly from (possible) embarrassment, not anything to do with illegal materials.
If anyone DIRECTLY asks what I was listening to, then I suppose I'll have to answer.
You want us to ask you don't you
LOL, havent you gone nuts yet?
Well, if you dont want to say, then why mention it?
Come on, spit it out I promise I wont laugh, because I think that nothing is embarrassing to listen to, unless its not music.
So, I played a game (LoL of course), and there was these 3 guys (probably Albanian or something), who would spam pings in the map all the time. But when I say all the time, I mean 1 ping every 0.1 sec.
ALL.
THE.
TIME.
I knew it was them, because 1) they were a team, 2) they would all go together, usually leaving me and morde to die in team fights, enjoying the show, 3) one of them actually admitted it.
When I asked them to stop pinging all the freaking time, amumu (the one who was spamming the most), answered me: "Sian Zhao is dog" (he meant Xin Zhao, me) .
When Morde asked them to stop doing that, amumu answered: "mord and Sian Zhao are dog"
Then he said: "all american are dog!", then he continued on spamming pings on the map, while he would type "dog" every 10 sec on the chat.
I think that was by far one of them most horrible games I have ever had, and that was due to the fact that we could actually win this game, if they hadnt gotten on my nerves so much. Needless to say, that morde couldnt take it anymore, and said: "I'm out, gg", and then went afk. I then proceeded to do the same (go afk), and watched them die one by one, enjoying the show quite a lot, if I may say so.
GG
Log back on then >.< and they were probably brazilian.
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