Developer Journal on new AI capabilities for Elemental: War of Magic v1.1
World Difficulty: Normal
Map: Tiny
All players (10 opponents) have “normal” intelligence instead of Pariden
Goal: Elimination of all AI players as quickly as possible.
I just find that funny.
If you guys see anything wrong with the strategy I employ, let me know.
Early Game:
Build town, recruited a couple NPCs, sent sovereign out to gather goodies.
Observation: Need more choices in what to build early on.
First rule in this game: Any sovereign I can kill, I will kill.
Ok, Verga by himself can take out Relias and friends…
Ack, at war with a lot of players now thinking I was going to steamroll.
I still haven’t figured out why that sort of thing happens. It shouldn’t.
Building a pioneer. (Winter, 166 AC)
What? No love at first sight?
Built “Toad Ville” near an ancient temple.
Ok, AI sovereign is stuck. Need to make them intelligently learn to teleport out. Let’s see how this works..
Fixing a deadlock I caused… Grr.
Ok, deadlock fixed.
Grr. It is really really hard to nail down what the battlerank should be. I thought I had Verga but nope. He killed my whole group.
Going to try doing it via tactical (loading a saved game to try it again to see).
Should be easy…right?
Well crap, Magnar came after me!
This isn’t going well.
I really hate Verga.
GOT HIM!
I KILLED VERGA!
Magnar’s forces have come for me.
This could go either way.
Heh.
With Magnar thrown back, I’m in a much better position.
Magnar is still a threat but my capital (and last city) is no longer in immediate danger.
Building up again.
Need more war music, emailing Mason.
Getting low on candy.
Next…
I am starting to gain momentum.
Pariden shows up.
Okay, it’s almost midnight. Time to check in my changes and head home.
..updating…
crowbraid pours himself a generous mug of Guinness, decks out a plate with cheese, Gallo salami, and crackers, then sits down in a lounge chair to watch the game. Should be interesting.
In the recent games I've played (all recently on medium or large maps, ridiculous level) I executed the following plan:
At least in my games this has been a successful plan to steamroll the AI early on and consolidate a massive empire that offsets any AI economic bonuses the opponents receive from the difficulty level. Thus, I recommend buffing capital city defense somehow to mitigate the early steamroll (I have a post in the ideas section of the forum). A capital city left standing would not stop my zerg but would slow it down a bit and expose my supply lines.
Thanks for listening.
[edit]
I did some more thinking about this. In GalCiv2, initial blitzkriegs were limited by both ship range and the technology to invade colonies was pretty high up the tech tree. Neither of those limitations exist in Elemental. Thus, the AI doesn't have time to build up their cities or armies to offset the human zerg attack like they could in that game. Somehow the limitations provided in GalCiv2, which helped make those games epic on the hardest difficulty level, need to be incorporated here. How should the AI keep their:
Some ideas? Maybe buff the Sovereign talent that allows the city they're in to be applied always apply to their capital even if the Sovereign is elsewhere? Buff the spell a bit by increasing attack, defense, hp? Grant some range attack towers as default city defense? Let the Sovereign apply the buff to whichever city he resides but if he's camped in his capital, double-buff the capital city? Give all the AI sovereigns that talent? I'm not sure of the correct answer as all of this has to be balanced at a both strategic and tactical level. I think someway to mirror the limitations that GalCiv2 put on initial zerg attacks should be duplicated in Elemental that's consistent with lore, makes practical sense, and longer-term could be applied to multiplayer. Anyway food for thought. Thanks for listening.
I've done almost exactly the same thing many times.
I really haven't brainstormed on solutions: these are really quick.
1. Opponent should be doing something similar, and thus when you attack his cities he has some defenses.
2. Opponent should be tough enough in combat to not make it a cakewalk. I would like to see many options of Offense/Defense for the AI to choose during battle (buffs, illusions, summoning, etc.)
3. I would really like to see the winner of a battle against champions given to the winner. Thus, an AI Sov who has items would be tougher too.
"First rule in this game: Any sovereign I can kill, I will kill." That's an exciting sharing!! - just hope 1.1 can release asap for me those cant online all the while to play... Battle is fun, no doubt, However, I am kind of worry if AI - will thinks like that as well, that will be "too uncivilized" like Civ 5. We have few victory ways for Elemental, I think would be great if all victory way are equally achievable. AI having their own preference as well.
"First rule in this game: Any sovereign I can kill, I will kill."
That's an exciting sharing!! - just hope 1.1 can release asap for me those cant online all the while to play...
Battle is fun, no doubt, However, I am kind of worry if AI - will thinks like that as well, that will be "too uncivilized" like Civ 5.
We have few victory ways for Elemental, I think would be great if all victory way are equally achievable. AI having their own preference as well.
Ah, that sounds frackin good. You're going to actually watch that game? Can you tell me how to do that?
I could, yes. But I shall leave the task of discovering how up to you.
Can I just say, I think the pose of the character (Watcher) in this screenshot is stupid looking. There's another one similar to it that bugs me as well. Can these be changed?
Nice dev journal though - THANKS!
City Walls.
They would stop early steam-roll tactics, as you would have to create a siege army, which takes tech and time.
Really happy to see the ai coming along, Brad. Good work!
Good idea. Much more simple than my bloviation.
Dear God, yes. Actual walls in tactical battles are something that I'm really hoping to see in the first expansion, when tactical battles get revamped.
All my girls strike this pose or close to it. They look good too......
how about the mana cost of teleort scaling with the number of units involved?
Y'know, "invasion tech" is not a bad idea despite city walls being around. You could make it so invaders need to research a few things until they get 100% effectiveness vs. cities. That would make fights outside of cities more normal for awhile, and let the AI have more time... not to mention less chance of losing your cities in the early game.
Brad,
You wrote, "If you guys see anything wrong with the strategy I employ, let me know."
First rule in this game: Any sovereign I can kill, I will kill."
I find that a bit xenophobic... maybe tone it down a bit with the RP part of the RPTBS such that any opposing faction you find you kill on sight but try to make friends with like factions, first, then if friending fails, wipe them out.
Careful with how many wars an AI wants to have ongoing simultaneous, optimally one is best and increasing from there stretches your resources, supply lines and everything more thin.
Prioritize opponents based on opponent strength to your own, proximity, and their friends verses your friends... you should get the picture.
Anyhow if you keep these things iin mind you will do well with the AI choices.
Rather than the cost, I'd prefer the limiter to be in the teleport process. For example, a unit can only teleport between places they've already been. If each unit had to create teleport waypoints at each physical teleport location they wanted to pop between, and if there was a limit to the number of teleport waypoints, the cost and number of units in the stack would become far less relevant. But this has all been discussed to death.
I agree that the cost of teleport should scale with number of units (where parties count as 4 etc). Just have a dialog pop up with the final cost confirming the decision.
Otherwize, the mobility book will be far more powerful than the other 3. Terraforming is not as vital early on; in most cases you can walk around the mountain rather than through it.
The combat book is nice but if you can cheaply blob your entire army and defend with everything; you don't really need the combat spells or buff spells.
The enhancement book needs some serious work. Most of the spells add +1 to a given resource. These buffs have 1 upkeep just like healers boon (the +20 hp buff from life). Now personally, i would not consider +1 of any resource (save elementalium) worth the mana upkeep. It would be nice if all of mana costs/generation was scalled up that way more variation of upkeep costs could exist (ie make +20 health +3 upkeep and retain +1 upkeep for the +1 resource per turn enchantments).
Just some thoughts,
Morale might be a good counter. Similar to Civ, after a town changes hands require it to be garrisoned for X turns in order to pacify the population else there's a chance it will revolt and return to the original owner. You either spend longer building up forces prior to the rush so you can garrison the cities you take, or you're forced into a consolidation phase every few cities in order to keep them. Either gives the AI a little more time to prepare, while still leaving the option of a surprise raid open to the player (i.e. you could grab cities and let them rebel just to disrupt the enemy economy, or you could go on a raid and plunder and simply raze the cities, but you can't make a quick grab for the empire).
Hmm, looking at the battle in part 4, Brad, a few things come to my mind:
-It doesn't disturb me so much that your pikemen got killed by those people in plate armor (18 armor is quite high). High-quality troops winning against a group of 4 poorly equiped troops seems normal to me. Give them slightly better weapons, basic armor, and 2 squads should be enough to deal with those tincans.
-Overwhelming with cheap units should work when the difference in power isn't *that* big. Here, you're basically trying to kill a panzer with lots of rifles. So, I think that so far, the game is working well and this doesn't seem unbalanced.
However! I do think that armor is a bit too efficient. Or more exactly, I think hit points and weapon damage (for a quite a few weapons, but not lordhammers ) could use a buff so as to reduce the importance of armor and of "striking first". I will test that extensively, but I do feel that a good deal of weapons could do with a 10, 20 or 30% buff (but not more!), depending on the weapon. To compensate, base hit points could be raised to 15. Or maybe 18. Or even 20: that's a bit extreme, but that could solve the "who starts the battle wins" Elemental is suffering from.
Flaw regarding all 4X games:
The diplomacy is always based on who has the biggest sword (who's got the strongest, largest army). Every AI leader has the same mentality / character: "if my nation can conquer their nation, then it will."
Please set Elemental apart from all other 4X games and do something unique. Give AI leaders some hidden stats such as:
By assigning each opponent these four example attributes set to various random values, the game will be far more enjoyable since the player will not know what to expect from each other opponent. No longer will the automatic solution be: Ah, an enemy, kill them all!
edit: also, please don't mix the terms "seasons" and "turns". If they're both the same thing, use one and only one.
edit 2: also, please find some better alternative to teleportation of defeated enemy sovereigns. It just cheapens the impact of battle with them. And when a sovereign is killed, instead of magically removing all of their cities, turn them into independent states or assign one of the sovereign's children as the new leader.
Just one note. I keep laughing when you write the name Verga. I'm hispanic and for me, "Verga" means "Penis or dick" in spanish. So if I encounter a character named Verga and say, "OMG, here cums Verga for the kill" the image in my head is just funny. You could change it to a stronger name like "Vargas" or Vergara". Sorry if I sidetracked the thread...
turns better not get slower as its gets later into the game
What the earlier poster said about not being able to invade in GalCiv really rings true. You SHOULDN'T be able to rush an opponent's CITY with something like a warlord and sentries in the first 10 turns if the guy has the misfortune to spawn next to you. That really limits options on maps that are smaller.
Drop City Walls as a tech and a structure, and simply add them to any city level 1. You shouldn't be able to bypass the walls without magic. And the walls should have a ridiculous amount of hit points, and accompanying guard towers that fire every turn on enemy troops.
This seems pretty standard to me. Why should you be able to overrun a bloody city with a handful of peasants? After all, you're talking maybe 125 vs ..12 in the early game.
Make attacking a city require
1) Siege
2) Magic
3) A serious infantry commitment. You should be able to melee attack walls, but maybe they have like 500 hit points. (So a dragon could smash through in a round, but a spearman, not so much)
You might want to modify certain weapons/creatures as being effective as "Siege" and give them a bonus to attack walls. Also, your walls and defenses should increase in effectiveness by city level. (And technology)
Sounds good.
Best regards,Steven.
Regarding more build options early on and how to stop the easy rushing of AI capitals.
Suggested buildings:
Homeguard (not sure about the required material/gold to build - requires two citizens pr city level). This building will take two pesants pr city level and equip them with best available equipment. When city with Homeguard is attacked these will be added to normal units in city. This way one will have some extra defenses in cities without much micromanagement.
Snakepit: (Empire)
Early building that will add one snake to city defense pr city level. Snake can not be moved out of city
Kennel (Kingdom)
Early building that will add two guard dogs to city defense pr city level. Cannot be moved out of city
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