Hello folks,
For those of you that followed the Demigod development journals in the past, you are aware that we’ve likely received all of the major patch updates we’ll get in Demigod. The last post in the development journals related to patches indicated that we’ll receive a “series of free updates” from GPG (GPG is Gas Powered Games – they are the developer of Demigod. Stardock is the publisher of the game and doesn’t handle coding/patching changes outside of hosting/staging the patched versions via impulse). As of today, we haven’t received any of those free updates, which we can actually view as good news – as it means we can potentially still get fixes and changes implemented into the game.
To that end, I have a plan (which I’ll cover in a little bit).
We still have several talented modders in the community that are even today coming up with ways to make Demigod an even better game. Take the AI, for instance. The standard AI in Demigod has always been somewhat lackluster and certainly in need of improvement. The generic AI would not use logical builds or make item selections based on how an experienced person would. Thanks to the modders and feedback from the community, if you install the Enhanced AI mod, you will find that the AI chooses intelligent builds, intelligent items, purchases the most useful citadel upgrades at the right time, prioritizes flags that should be controlled, etc.
Now, if we take a look at the bug fixing side of things, the community modders have coded a mod called uberfix. This mod corrects exploits that shouldn’t exist in the game, fixes bugs, makes it so Occulus’s abilities work as described, etc. We all want the game to work the way it should and this mod gets it there and is continually being improved upon as additional bugs are discovered.
Onto the UI (user interface – eg the stuff you see on the screen that tells you how much health you have, etc) side of things: the modders again have provided some significant enhancements that really add to the overall Demigod experience. There are mods that indicate how many summoned minions you have, mods that simply make it so instead of just seeing a green/blue bar for health/mana you see the text value of your health/mana on top of that, mods that add an overlayed window showing your teams health and mana, and last, but not least, mods that allow you to see what items your teammates have simply by mousing over them. On 1/22/2011, I created a combined UI mod that you can simply download, install, and enable in game and it will give you all of the benefits I describe above: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/404410
What's the problem with things as they are today?
OK – so we have quite a few great mods that really improve the Demigod experience. So what’s the problem – eg why would we want any of these changes patched into Demigod itself? Well, the easiest example is that (using uberfix and the enhanced AI mod as examples) you can’t play games with anyone else UNLESS they have these mods installed. As our community is small, this means that anytime you choose to enable these mods in multiplayer, you are excluding folks from your game that do not have the required mods installed. This generally results in players NOT using mods like uberfix and Enhanced AI as it is much easier to get a game going without them. So, we can solve most of Demigod’s shortcomings ourselves, but we can only play with folks from the community if they have installed the mods themselves (and I’d wager about 70% of the existing community do not have the mods installed).
The Plan
We have a few directions we could try to move in.
So, how can we pull any of this off?
Here’s what I’m thinking – documentation. A lot of it. Sounds fun, I know. Let’s suppose that the community puts our heads together and comes up with an archive of information we can submit to Stardock and have them forward over to the folks at GPG. The overall premise is that the easier we can make the changes for them, the more likely we’ll actually see them implemented. It’s one thing to tell GPG we have a problem with Occulus – please fix it. It’s another thing entirely to provide the exact code required to implement the fix and perhaps even document exactly what the problem was in code.
What I imagine would be several things. The original lua for each file that is being updated. The updated lua for each file that is being updated (including everything that was in the original lua along with the coding fixes). An updated lua file that includes ONLY the fix. An explanation of what is wrong and the solution. Validation that testing was performed on the change. A finalized compiled dgdata.zip for use in the next release of Demigod including all of the coding changes.
All of that said, even if we compiled all of this, there is no guarantee we could get anything implemented. I’m guessing Stardock would have some control over adding some mods directly to the package in impulse, but don’t know if they’d need a buy in from GPG to do something like that. And I don’t really know how much assistance we’d get from GPG to make any of this happen. But, we can always give it go.
I really could not care less about uberfix or the ai, I just wish the achievements would work and the online experience was more stable. You mind quickly patching that up before you lose interest for the next few months miri?
Wish I could. That stuff is all in the engine, or with the achievements, Impulse. Nothing the community can do about that.
I read up on the achievement problem awhile back. Someone actually came up with a strange fix, that would PROBABLY work if patched in the game.
If I remember right, the achievement stuff was MOSTLY working on either 1.1 or 1.2. Somewhere in between there, some changes were made that caused some problems. The user that solved the problem for them self in single player took the achievements.lua file from 1.1 and added that as a mod to for version 1.2 or 1.3. That method allowed for achievements to propogate as expected in SP, but I don't know if that would work in MP as just an installed mod. It might...
But that said, I only have versions 1.0 and 1.3 of dgdata.zip, so I don't know where to get the 1.1 achievements file and can't give it a shot.
What is the achievement problem, exactly? Does it affect single player? For that matter, do custom games even track achievements on Impulse? If not, a mod can't fix the problem. If so, and if the problem also exists in skirmish/single player (I don't pay attention to achievements at all, so I wouldn't notice), then sure, maybe I can do something about it?
I didn't pay much attention to the full problem either. I think what happens is achievements work for like the first few games and then stop counting correctly.
Take a look at my account's achievements: http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/achievements/player/28414/
Several 100% complete, but then quite a few that simply stopped being tracked. Here's an example:
So, based on this, the last time that stat was updated was Dec 17, 2009.
Anyway, I'm not sure what causes the problem. These achievements are both in SP and in MP. The fix I described causes achievements to calculate properly in SP. The question is whether or not the same method could cause the achievement information to be reported back to stardock's servers to track in MP.
Different people care about different things. A few of my xbox pals are completely nuts over achievements. The bottom line is that they should work if they are in the game, though (though granted, it's probably minor in comparison to some things).
That's part of what I meant by more stable online experience. But if I had to pick one, screw achievements is what I'm saying too.
Just a quick word on this - first, intentions != promises. I forwarded to the community what GPG's intentions were with the game. They intended Demigod to be a DOTA type, competitive game. But things happened. Scathis left GPG and so did Mike Marr.
While I can control what happens with Elemental, I can't control what happens with Demigod other than to continue dialog with Chris to see what is and isn't possible to do.
I did decrease my presence on the Demigod forums because, frankly, I got tired of taking a beating on things that I have no control over. You can only shoot the messenger so many times. Look at your own posts, it's "Stardock this" and "Stardock that" as if Stardock made the game. Those of you who have been around should know better.
Stardock got involved at the tail end (i.e. 5+ months prior to shipping) of Demigod's multi-year development. We did everything we possibly could for the game. We did far far more than was ever contemplated by our publishing agreement on Demigod to help it. I even offered to have Stardock take over development support on the game at one point (i.e. bring its ongoing development in house).
It is a good game. It's still, IMO, the best LAN party game I know of and it's fun. But at the end of the day, it's GPG's game.
We'll happily release any updates GPG is willing to make to Demigod.
Some of us that are still playing the game do appreciate the efforts Stardock has made for Demigod. Thanks again and happy thanksgiving!
Thanks Pacov. I will keep talking to Chris to see what sorts of updates can still be done.
Hi Frogboy! Happy Thanksgiving!
I know all this Frogboy. What's done is done. We've drove this home on the forums a bazillion times, I've spoke to former GPG Uber employees in person. You know that I have an understanding of what went on. Its sad, because the consumers got the short end of the stick. I understand the complications of all that went on, but the only thing Demigod can do for itself is to launch a sequel.
The only reason I still think about Demigod is for the possibility for a sequel. GPG prooved it can handle itself again with Supreme Commander 2. Every cent that would go to Demigod should go to a Demigod 2. What's better for the community- updates for a game that extremely few people play or a sequel with the chance to redeem the IP?
Ah - so the option here is to either have GPG develop and release Demigod 2 or provide a patch for Demigod. If that were the case, I'd vote for Demigod 2... don't really think that's the case though, eh.
C'mon, poly... perhaps getting a "free" update (remember the whole "series of FREE updates" thing?) wouldn't derail the yet unannounced Demigod 2. We're more than likely talking about a 1 developer at GPG reviewing code that we'll provide them if they are willing to make some changes. As the odds are that an update from GPG wouldn't have any impact on Demigod 2 and...
... I'm not sure why you are all that interested in this topic. Unless you really believe that anything done for the existing game would realistically diminish the odds or be taking a resource from an unannounced game. Those of us that are still playing the game do appreciate efforts that are made to improve it.
because Polynomial's chief prerogative in life is to crush peoples' dreams with words.
After a brief chat with Brad, we will be moving forward with compiling specific changes we want to request for inclusion in Demigod. I'm also going to push for the inclusion of some mods. For those of you that would like to help make this happen by donating your time to testing, just let me know (either here or by pm). I will not request the inclusion of ANY mod unless I'm confident it is stable and/or reasonably balanced. There's still no real guarantee that we will see a patch here, but I am very confident that whatever changes we request, GPG will know about them and then can decide if they have a resource available to implement the changes we request.
I've been spending a lot of time working on testing the latest version of uberfix (I could use more help) or the ai skirmish mod. The AI skirmish mod is generally receiving multiple updates daily, so anyone else willing to chip in their time would be appreciated. I've requested some changes to the favor mod from exxcentric and he's starting work on those and I believe will be working on his enfo's mod as well. Testing assistance will be great here (eg, mods I know I want to submit for inclusion are enfos/favor mod/ai skirmish). Anyway, if you want to pitch in, I can easily help you figure out where you can help. Thanks guys!
And thanks to IN1. He's been dedicating some time to testing uberfix and the ai skirmish mod with me lately. Much appreciated. And of course - thanks to our modding guys - miriyaka, peppe, and exxcentric (and any of you folks that have assisted them in the past - hedgie at the very least). Without their experience, we wouldn't know how to fix these problems, we wouldn't know several of the exploits, etc. Please thank these guys for their efforts as it does make a difference to our game. I may try to organize things and keep our community going, but these guys do provide us with fun new game options and hope for an improved demigod.
And thanks to IN1. He's been dedicating some time to testing uberfix and the ai skirmish mod with me lately. Much appreciated.
You are welcome. In fact, I was hoping you'll teach me the Tao of MPC Rook in exchange!
Hi Pacov
I can try to help out with testing it might be sporadic as I am on maternity leave, but anything I can do to help.
The best would be SP as I can pause those:)
Cheers,
Sean
Thanks, Sean. You could certainly help with testing on the ai skirmish mod. Its actually coming along really nice and has been seeing multiple updates daily. Just check out one of my result posts from that thread and use the same format as me. Thanks!
http://forums.demigodthegame.com/401021
All we heard about during the peak of Demigod was the cost of everything and why we cannot get new maps or new anything. So yes, I think its realistic for me to think like this. Its not like GPG prints money. And yes I remember the series of free updates mentioned recently- something that hasn't happened yet.
I get worked up over this because I liked the game so much, yet it frustrated me so much too.
I know this is irrelevant but I'm assuming he meant paternity leave? Or does maternity leave apply to both?
He's from Denmark, so English might not be his first language. It's still pretty clear though
So, just as a quick update. I've been spending the majority of my time lately testing the various mods out there that I'm going to shoot for inclusion. It is quite a bit of work, so any assistance from our little community would be appreciated.
Mods that are currently seeing fast and furious updates:
Mod's that I just need to get a couple play tests in, but need to have at least a 3v3 to pull it off: uberfix. This latest version seems QUITE stable, but I don't want to sign off on it until we get a larger play test going. I would very much appreciate it if a few of you would take the time to install the latest version for a few games over the next few days. We'll also likely be using this version to finish out our community tournament.
What I'm looking to do soon is choose some very specific fixes from uberfix, mapping out and documenting the fixes, etc, in detail, and requesting those get included directly in Demigod. Anything included directly in demigod will be "ALWAYS ON." While with uberfix, someone could actually disable using it if we just include it as a stand alone mod. So, I figure exploits will be the primary focus along with a few fixes that we consider more important for inclusion. We won't be requesting any balance changes in the proposed patch unless we come to a VERY clear consensus on the change - and for all I know, requesting a balance change might reduce our chances for getting this done, but who knows really - Brad was able to get the extra second for flag locks added awhile back without much of a problem for us and that was a "balance" change.
Another quick update - we're still doing quite a bit of testing and enhancing the ai skirmish mod. We should be at a release candidate level before long. The latest version of uberfix (1.03) is still testing out solid.
Things that need done:
Things that I could use help with:
I've currently been putting the majority of my time towards the AI skirmish mod and we've developed a decent sized team of testers and modders providing suggestions/tweaks/etc, so if things keep going that way, we'll keep making progress even if I change my focus to the favor mod or enfos. The bottom line is that I don't want to submit any mod for inclusion unless we feel its reasonably polished. Keep in mind that even though the modders could still release updates to their mods, the version we submit for inclusion will be the version that everyone has. That means that any future mod update will put us in the situation we are in today (eg everyone must download the new mod for it work).
Anyway, I don't think we'll have anything to submit for another couple of weeks, but we are plugging away at things. Give the AI skirmish mod a go and see how much better the ai is if you'd like to check it out.
Baby bump
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