[Disclaimer: Stardock does not endorse or support this mod. This thread has merely been stickied so users can more easily direct comments or questions to the authors of this popular modification.]
Some time ago the modding community started poking around in the TA tech trees to see why the AI was reluctant to develop certain techs. We found that some weapons techs were categorised as PD, instead of Military, meaning that unless missile weapons were deployed, those techs would never be researched by the AI. Obviously, an AI that can't fight back isn't much of a challenge.
The idea behind this mod was originally just to get the TA AI on the right track as far as weapons are concerned. However as suggestions have been put forward by the community, more improvements have been made to the tech trees. Some features have been driven by my own need to fix annoyances.
For example there is the AI's passion for spamming factories or labs onto every tile, crashing their early economy. These basic improvements would get upgraded and then cost the AI even more in terms of miantenance and production cost, forcing the AI to run inefficiently with the production slider at far less than 100%.
So my approach has been to deprive human and AI alike of early structures that can cause economic meltdown, and in their place have Super Projects which allow for some single-planet focus.
N.B. Use the external link above or choose one of the versions below. The successive versions are not patches, they contain all the features of that version of the mod. Extract the ZIP folder to your mods folder - if one doesn't already exist, create it. If your mod select screen in-game is broken, see here to fix it.
For a video overview of mod installation, see here.
For gameplay examples, check the new YouTube channel here.
Recent versions
v5G:
v6:
v6A:
v6B:
For obvious reasons, updates to the mod are on hiatus until the community update is completed.
For a full version history of the mod, see here.
For download links of older versions, see here.
New version is up! See top post.
Also, I have trimmed the top post and moved much of the version history over to my new site. There's a downloads page for the versions older than 5 if anyone is interested.
So I've tested the Cathedral of Valor changes and, disappointingly, using a factor to a civ ability (Soldiering in this case) doesn't update the ability value. It may work, it may not work, either way I can't be sure so I'll make it an additive bonus instead.
Of course this means it won't scale according to the soldiering ability that you have managed to gain so far.
Since it is a minor fix I've re-upped it as version 5F.
You mean this F_AbilityFactor? Yes, it doesn't show, but it should work. The Eyes of the Universe uses this for Sensors, and it definitely works there.
By the way, if you don't mind, I'd like to go bug-hunting in your mod. I'm not quite ready to continue the work on mine (tweaking the AI values has always been my least favourite part in this), but I've certainly got enough time to help others work on their mods.
Sure, knock yourself out. There's still races that I haven't worked with much so some fresh insights would always be helpful.
My latest test game is turning out well because I'm being more aggressive with the colonisation and I'm playing on a galaxy with scattered stars instead of clusters. Still quite behind on research though.
My ethical choices have led me to become the evil Arceans. Can't wait to see how that turns out.
It took a bit longer than expected, so I'm going through the rest of the files tomorrow. For now, here is part one with my findings from the PlanetImprovements.xml. Most are pretty minor stuff (nothing of consequence, if it remains unchanged), but there are also a couple more serious issues.The following improvements have a tag that isn't necessary and can be safely removed.PlanetaryQualityBonus: Soil Enhancement, Habitat Improvement, TerraformingAbilityType: Technological Capital, Political Capital, Omega Research CenterAbilityAmount: Mind Control CenterPlacementLimit: Galactic Trading Centre, Mitrosoft Labs, United Builders Inc. Factory, Technological Capital, Economic Capital, Spin Control Center, Black Market Sector, Massive Slave Pit, Experimentation Centre, Distributed Energy Matrix, LGM Inc Labs, Social Matrix, Infinity Tech Labs, Pear Shaped Labs, Nordstrom Technologies, Centre for Intellect Studies, Precursor Weapons Lab, Galactic Technology Centre, Nano Assemblers, Temple of HonourIndestructable: Doomsday GeneratorWeather Control Zenith: Description still says, that the PQ increases by 3.The following improvements are not showing their Query Graphics in-game due to a typo:Shrine of the Mithrilar: ShrineOfTheMithrilar.png should be ShrineOfTheMithralar.png.Manufacturing Matrix L3: SymbiosisPlatform.png should be SymbiosisPlatforms.png.The following improvements are missing the AI-tag:Galactic Showcase, Re-education Center, Secret Police Center, Hyper Computers, Hyperion Re-Supply Center, Galactic Bazaar, Counter Espionage CenterThe following improvements have an AI value of zero:Galactic Resort, Cathedral of Valor, Charging Stalks, Basic Stalk, Merchant Trade Complex, Molecular Fabricator, Order Of Krynn, Biosphere Modulator, Zero-G Amusement, Recuperation CenterThe following improvements are in danger of the 1pp-bug:Anti-Matter Power PlantQuantum Power PlantEnhanced Xeno FarmSlaveling Training CenterArtificial Slave PodsAdvanced Navigation CenterPrecursor RepositoryPrecursor MatrixIn case you don't know what I mean with "1pp-bug": If you upgrade a 1pp improvement, and it gets later destroyed for some reason, you won't be able to rebuild it on that world, because the game thinks, that you still have it. That is happening because the game registers upgrading an improvement as constructing a new building. This is quite easy to verify: Build a Fusion Power Plant, upgrade it to an Anti-Matter Power Plant, then decommission it. Neither the Fusion nor the Anti-Matter Power Plant will be available in the buildlist of this planet anymore. The Quantum Power Plant won't either, once you research it.The following improvements are also in danger of the 1pp-bug, but have other issues too:CollectiveImproved CollectiveEnhanced CollectiveSuperior CollectiveTechnology Matrix L1Technology Matrix L2Technology Matrix L3Manufacturing Matrix L1Manufacturing Matrix L2Manufacturing Matrix L3Here is an example of the additional problems: The basic Collective has a limitation of 3pp and the Improved Collective one of 4pp. If you build all three Collectives, and later upgrade them to Improved ones, you won't be able to build a fourth one, because the game thinks, that you already have six. The only way to circumvent this, is to build an Improved Collective first, and then upgrade your existing Collectives. However, this only postpones the problem. You still won't be able to build more Collective until you've researched Ultimate Collectives. For the Thalan, this is even worse, because they can get permanently stuck at 2 Tech/Manu Matrices per planet. The possibility of not being able to rebuild those improvements also still exist, but is less severe for the Yor, because the Ultimate Collective has no limitation.Regional Matrix: This is an upgrade for the (Altarian) Manufacturing Matrix, but is also a 1pp. The Manufacturing Matrix, however, has no placement limitation. I guess the RM is meant as a sort of Power Plant. In that case, I'd suggest to remove the S_UpgradeTartget-tag.Gravity Accelerators: The ShipSpeedBonus is bugged. Only the race building the TG will get the bonus. Anyone who buys the TG won't. I'm not sure, if the race, that acquires the planet, where the TG is built on, will get the bonus. In any case, it is best to replace this bonus with one to the Speed ability.The Temples of Alignment have incorrect values for Min/MaxAlignment:The MaxAlignment for the Temple of Evil should be 39, because a value of 40 is Neutral. The MinAlignment for the Temple of Righteousness should be 61, because a value of 60 is still Neutral. The MinAlignment of the Temple of Neutrality should be 40. The ToN also needs a MaxAlignment with the value of 60. As currently implemented, the ToN is identical to the ToR and only counts the Good races, plus the few Neutrals who have a value of 60. Neutrality Learning Center:The Invention Matrix/Discovery Sphere will never upgrade to an NLC. So, if the AI researches the NLC after those labs, they will stay the same. Not only that, but the AI will also have two different labs in the buildlist, increasing it's chance to use the weaker one (IM/DS). The fix for this is actually pretty simple (yet it took me years to find it). Just turn the NLC into an upgrade for the Invention Matrix and the Discovery Sphere. It should look like this:<S_UpgradeTarget>ResearchAcademy</S_UpgradeTarget><S_UpgradeTarget>Invention Matrix</S_UpgradeTarget><S_UpgradeTarget>Discovery Sphere</S_UpgradeTarget>It works (I'm using this in my mod), but it isn't perfect. If the Invention Matrix gets researched after the NLC, it will also be available in the buildlist. However, once the Discovery Sphere gets researched, only the NLC will remain in the list, and all former IMs will be upgraded to it.Aul Incinerator: It needs the Indestructable-tag, and the value for CanHaveAgents should be set to zero. PlanetQualityChange has a permanent effect. This means that, when the Aul Incinerator gets destroyed, the lost PQ will remain lost. If the Incinerator gets rebuild, yet another PQ will be lost. Changing the Incinerator to be indestructible prevents possible exploits. The change to the agents, however, is just to make the Incenerator identical to the other PQ changing improvements.Gaia Vortex: The PlanetaryQualityBonus doesn't work in TotA (not sure, if it still works in DL and DA), and should be replaced with PlanetQualityChange. The value also needs to be changed then (10 more tiles would be a little much).A couple thoughts:The AI value for some improvements seems to be extremely low (Virtual Reality Center is at 1, for example).Do you have any intentions of going over the Maintenance costs? It is pretty high for some of the improvements, and the increase for some is also pretty nonsensical (for example, the City of Learning: 4bc more maint. for 2rp more research). Reducing the base maintenance, and making the increase more constant (e.g., +1bc for +2rp/mp), could help the AI with it's economy.The Charging Stalks now provide more food than the Advanced Charging Stalks did (4+ > 3), yet the morale-bonus remained the same (15%). I'd suggest to increase the morale-bonus to either the same level the ACS had (20%) or a higher one (25% maybe).The Propaganda Center is pretty useless. It only provides a 10% bonus to planetary loyalty, yet costs 4bc maintenance. In other words, nobody would build it. The best solution, in my opinion, would be, to turn it into an SP, and change the bonus to affect the Loyalty ability. Granted, it's, more or less, the same Tolmekian and I did in our respective mods. However, I doubt anyone would complain, if you did it too.The Xinathium Hull Plating can be disabled by spies. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense, that your build ships should loose HP, due to this. I'd suggest to change the value for CanHaveAgents to zero.Have you considered to use the same food cap for both the Capital City and the Initial Colony? In my opinion, this would make balancing farms easier.Speaking of food, I've found a way to make the AI use farms, without needing the 1pp limit. I detailed my findings here. Maybe it's helpful for you.
The NLC is now superior to a Discovery Sphere - it provides 18tp (vs 16tp for Discovery Sphere) albeit at an increased maintenance. It does not need to upgrade.
I'll consider replacing the power plants with ability bonuses on the tech and maybe some super projects.
As for the other limited number per-planet improvements and the problem of them being destroyed... in several cases, I'm limiting the AI so that it doesn't spam an improvement until its economy collapses. It can still use the tile which the destroyed improvement was on, so that's going to have to be good enough.
Thanks for giving the improvements a close look. I'll have a think about what to do. However as I'm spending a lot of time testing rather than fixing, it could be a while before I put another version out.
Here is the last part of my findings. As I expected, I couldn't find any serious bugs. Well, except for one thing: some techs got blocked in the Krynn tech tree, due to a typo in the requirement.Korath_TechTree.xmlTormenting Realizations: ID is set to Industry. Should be Computing.Korx_TechTree.xmlFleet Battle Tactics: Category is set to Military, overriding Category Communications from the TechTree.xml. Is that intentional?Fortified Freighters and Super Trade Starbases: The Category is currently set to Trade. The AI doesn't like this category that much, so it might be better to set it to Economics.The following techs have no Details:Ultimate Space WeaponsTechnology Progression ITechnology Progression IITechnology Progression IIISpace WeaponsAdvanced Space WeaponsAdvanced Starship DefensesThe following techs also have no Description:Space WeaponsAdvanced Space WeaponsAdvanced Starship DefensesKrynn_TechTree.xmlAdvanced Troop Mod: The Category is set to Space Mining. Should be Invasion.Superior Espionage and Master Spies: The ID is set to Industry for both. Culture or Computing would make more sense.Space Weapons: The tech requirement is written as "AdvancedHulls". Should be "Advanced Hulls".Ultimate Space Weapons: It has no Details.Terran_TechTree.xmlFleet Battle Tactics and Tulon Weapon Focus: Category is set to Military, overriding Category Communications from the TechTree.xml. Is that intentional?The following techs have no AIValue:Interstellar War CollegesSpace SuperiorityAdvanced Defensive TechniquesFleet Warp BubblesFleet Warp Bubbles IIFleet Warp Bubbles IIIThe following techs have no Details:Military ImprovementsTechnology Progression IAdvanced Space WeaponsTechnology Progression IITechnology Progression IIIUltimate Space WeaponsThalan_TechTree.xmlUltimate Space Weapons: It has no Details.Torian_TechTree.xmlFleet Battle Tactics and Tulon Weapon Focus: Category is set to Military, overriding Category Communications from the TechTree.xml. Is that intentional?The following techs have no Details:Military ImprovementsTechnology Progression IAdvanced Space WeaponsTechnology Progression IITechnology Progression IIIStarship ResearchUltimate Space WeaponsAdvanced Starship DefencesYor_TechTree.xmlThe following techs have no Details:Technology Progression ITechnology Progression IITechnology Progression IIIUltimate Space WeaponsZylon_TechTree.xmlThe following techs have no Details:Technology Progression ITechnology Progression IITechnology Progression IIIUltimate Space WeaponsA couple thoughts:Fusion Power Plants are placed pretty late in the tech tree. By the time you can research it, you also have Industrial Sectors available. Could you move it up a little? Maybe right after Xeno Industrial Theory or Xeno Factory Construction? Another possibility is to split up the Power Plants techs. Keep Quantum Power Plants where they are, move Fusion Power Plants further up, and place Anti-Matter Power Plants somewhere in the middle (maybe after Manufacturing Centers).Artificial Gravity is a bit strange. In some tech trees, it's ID is set to Computing, while in others it's Industry. Same thing with the Category. I wasn't sure, how much of this is intentional (even less so than with the fleet module techs), so I didn't put it in as a bug.Have you considered moving your new techs into the TechTree.xml? As you have probably noticed, most of my findings are missing Details and Descriptions from those techs. If you moved them into the TechTree.xml, then it would be less likely for this and other errors to happen. Especially as some of the techs already have Details in other tech trees.Another thing to consider, is to turn the TechTree.xml into a fully functional tech tree. Currently you edit all tech trees individually. However, if you made all of the major changes directly in the TechTree.xml, then it would severely cut down on the work needed for the individual trees.GC2Types.xmlSome of the defenses (Kanvium, Adamantium, Shields) and the sensors become cheaper, the more advanced they get. Is that intentional?The Hyper Warp Drive Mk. II is also cheaper than the Mk. I, but the Mk. III is more expensive again.Well, that is all. I hope it helps.
Yeah the prices for the engines are intentionally altered. You'll notice that Hyperwarp III has speed 5, not 4. You're getting a fair price for the speed you get from it.
Sensors also get more efficient, but the earlier versions are not quite as ridiculous as they used to be.
I realised that some of the defences don't really give you a lot of noticeable improvement so in some cases their cost scales down as you keep researching the same line.
Thanks again for looking through all that. I did wonder why the Krynn were stuck like that, now I know why.
Hmm. It seems that actually, in my current game at least which is still v5F, the Krynn are developing weapons, just not very quickly. Messing up the tech pre-requisite must have meant that Space Weapons was available to them right away as part of an orphaned tech tree.
Same old story with the test game. I get just up to the point where I can research Space Weapons, and someone decides to intervene on the behalf of the other guy, who attacked me.
It's sort of ironic that I decided that I want a more challenging game and make a mod to do just that, and yet I'm complaining that the AI is militarising earlier than I am and making an incorrect decision about who started what war.
The thing is, I don't know if I'm just not playing as well as I could be, or whether I'm making a bad build at the race customisation screen, or whether I've done enough with the tech tree. I feel like I've given them a decent start. I don't want to go too far and make the Arceans even more powerful than the other races.
You know actually, because the Arceans are Super Warrior, it does make sense for them to have access to Space Weapons earlier. At several points before finally getting to Technology Progression I and finally having access to the right tech, my factories and starports are sitting idle and my economy is in the green when I could be making fighters to deter attack or even get into a war.
I've been in a similar situation when I've played the other races, but frankly I think the early Arcean tech tree that I've come up with is too constrictive. So I'll see what I can do to make it more fun.
So I've put together a Fusion Beam weapon for the Arceans. It's actually the first time I've spreadsheeted some of the low-end weapons and little improvement exists moving from Laser V to Particle Beams I, apart from of course the reduction in cost.
The Fusion Beam will be cheaper to research than lasers and there will only be three tiers of weapon. No Starbase beam module is awarded at the end. They will start out being more expensive than lasers and end up very slightly cheaper with the Mk III.
It also unlocks after Cathedral of Valor and Beam Weapon Theory. Anyway, I'll test it out later and see if it does what I want it to do.
Something interesting to know. Had a bit of trouble getting the new weapons to work. Not filling out the Explosion Image field is a Big Deal. Fixed it and they're fine. Should definitely add that check to the validation tool.
Won't have time to try them out for real tonight, tomorrow for sure.
So I've been learning some cool things. I may actually fix some things that I didn't know were broken until today.
I'll tell you all about it after (yet another) short test game.
The thing I'm going on about today is that in GC2Types.xml, weapons have a Type tag.
This has an effect on how weapons animate. So for example, with a value of 1 enclosed, you get a visual which lasts fairly long, long enough to show a slow-moving bullet or missile to travel to its target. Yes I know, it isn't exactly perfect, but it does something.
So if you want to have a beam weapon which snaps on and off fairly rapidly, you instead want to use a value of 3 (which is what Phasors are set to) because with a setting of 1 the beam stays on for a long while and looks like you're trying to make a Tholian web or something.
So in keeping with the theme of the mod I will take a look at some of the weapons and see if their animations are okay. Consider for example Kinetic Streams, which has a value of 1 here, yet it is another beam-type weapon which looks funny with all the residual beams. I know, it doesn't have any effect on the challenge provided by the AI, but it couldn't hurt to have a look at them and see if I can tune them a bit.
Isn't that just the flavor of the Iconian/Yor unique weapons, though? They're all a bunch of little weapons being fired off together.
That's just it though, the Kinetic Streams animation is (by default) a single beam shot rather than multiple shots. So it doesn't really jive with the time the animation remains on screen. If it fired a slow-moving bolt of energy rather than a continuous beam, then it would be fine.
You have to remember, there was a lot of stuff added in Twilight of the Arnor, and as we've already discovered not all of it works as it should.
Okay, I'm not really certain what you're talking about. This is how Kinetic Streams appears in my games:
a bunch of vaguely electrical-looking beams all going off together.
If it lasts for an extra-lengthy amount of time, it's not something I've ever really noticed.
What I'm getting at is that (bearing in mind I'm using default designs for tiny hull fighters) the time the beam is on means that by the time the ship stops firing the origin point of the beam is far behind the ship. It looks weird.
With a slow-moving bolt or other projectile, once they have been fired they don't need to be tethered to some imaginary line connecting the ship and its target.
I searched and turned up this, also:
https://forums.galciv2.com/119514/page/1/#3125334
From what I can gather (and I may be wrong about this) a weapon with Type of 1 animates for long enough for a projectile to reach the target and stays on until the target is destroyed or the end of the combat round. There doesn't seem to be any computation of the actual flight time, the animation is simply run from origin point to target, even if the target moves. The more ships that are firing in one round, the longer the combat round, and the more that projectiles seem to linger at point blank range near a ship they are targeting.
In contrast a weapon of type 3 snaps on and off a number of times that is defined in the XML. The impact tag here is actually deciding how many times it should cycle before finally switching off. I think.
The problem with fine-tuning these is that there are so many weapons and each time you change something in the XML you have to start a new game to see the effects. Granted, with some cheat mode usage it doesn't have to be a long game, but I think at some point someone said, 'This is good enough,' and it was left as it was.
I am a relatively new GalCiv player and so I apologize in advance for my ignorance but I would greatly appreciate a response. You are obviously very knowledgeable about the game.
I am in the process of trying out your mod and Tolmekians mod is next. I noticed immediately that the tech trees are completely different. The ultimate weapons don't seem to exist at all in his? Based on your posts, MarvinKosh, you seem to be very familiar with his mod and vanilla as well. I have read the descriptions of both of your mods but much of it is relatively meaningless to me as I have limited experience with the game in general.
If you have the time or inclination could you please give me your opinion on the differences regarding the overall gameplay experience in each of your mods?
Truth be told, I've only glanced at Tolmekian's tech trees. But I have been around long enough to have read about various stages of the development of the mod.
Tolmekian has brought all the weapon tech trees for all races into line and from what I can remember, rebalanced some of the weapons.
I've also rebalanced weapons, but I've allowed the different races to retain what they had on their weapon tech trees. I've looked critically at the last tier of weapons before ultimate weapons and made them a significant step up from third tier weapons but also increased the cost to research. Ultimate weapons themselves have been scaled up to be (for the most part) capital ship weapons, and the damage/space ratio is not quite as ridiculous as vanilla. There's a new ultimate weapon for races that use Disruptors instead of Phasors.
I've also made defence modules less suited to fighters, scaling them up to provide a certain minimum amount of defence now that it is possible for defences to be reduced during a combat round (which makes a single point of defence virtually useless). Some smaller defence modules are then introduce as more defence research is carried out.
I've put an emphasis on economic development with the early stages of the tech trees, meaning that armed ships will not show up as fast as in the vanilla game. That being said, it's quite a brutal race to be the first to have weapons. In many cases you now have to research to get any kind of buildings to place on colonies, including more labs. The idea behind this has been to reduce the economic crashing from piling up lots of maintenance-sucking buildings and then funding their output. At the same time, some of the early buildings have been replaced with Super Projects. So for example, the Galactic Trading Centre (replacing basic Market building) provides +20% Economy on a planet. This gives the AI a solid start and it is quite adept at the colony rush, so you will have to get good too.
Tolmekian has also made good strides in this area, even going so far as to consolidate farms and charging stalks under a single infrastructure technology and building, from what I've read.
We both seem to agree that allowing the AI to build the existing farms or charging stalks on a bonus tile is pretty bad, as the AI reduces its taxation in order to deal with morale problems on high-population worlds, which reduces its economic capacity. So instead, food/charging/infrastructure buildings increase the base population cap by a percentage rather than a fixed amount. Percentage bonuses aren't multiplied on food bonus tiles.
Tolmekian and other modders have addressed some issues with 1pp buildings, namely that if you upgrade a 1pp building to something else and then the building is destroyed, that particular chain of buildings cannot be built on that planet ever again.
I could also address these problems but it would require some changes to various unique racial buildings and for the moment, I have focused on getting the AI to build and wage war effectively.
All modders have had to look at decreasing the number of starbase modules due to a limit (of about 100) in the AI's ability to 'see' starbase modules. I've culled many of the military starbase modules, and you can only unlock the remaining ones through weapons research in most tech trees. On the plus side, I found that it challenged me to do something with starbases other than fortify a position with overlapping starbase bonuses and use lots of 'drone' ships to tear the enemy to pieces.
Module dependency has also been addressed - some starbase modules depended on a chain that revolved around Battlestations I to V. I've simplified this to just Battlestations for sanity.
Sadly there are still a few starbase modules that are over the limit. So the AI will develop starbases during the game, but perhaps not as well as the human player can.
That's all I can think of at the moment, there's lots of things to see in either mod so I can promise you that you won't be bored with them, although I find that if you're used to teching quickly you may want to raise the tech speed in game setup. In particular, new colonies in my mod will give you only 2 research which both helps and hinders - you won't be bleeding money paying for (a funding percentage of) 12 research per initial colony any more, but you'll have to build up research infrastructure by building more of it.
Okay well, despite the fact that GC3 is on the way, there are a few things I still need to look at. Also, still need something to play until the beta starts.
Sorry I've been a bit quiet but I've been feeling extra tired lately and I've been officially off sick for nearly a month so I haven't had much of a chance to work on the mod. But I have an idea what to try next so, there's that.
Wow, that didn't take long. Basically the beam weapon animations don't line up as I would expect, so I'm going to try something else and see what happens.
Edit: So far, not much. I think the problem is that the ships are too small and are therefore moving too fast and too far from the origin point of the beam. Or I have the wrong idea about the animation settings, starting to think they don't do very much.
Edit 2: Okay I think I'm going to just leave the animation thing for now and come back to it later. That's the sensible thing to do.
I had another look at the weapon animations. I'm like a dog with a bone, I know.
So far as I can see it's nothing to do with having a small ship doing the firing, as I tried the same thing with battleships.
What's interesting (not really) is that when I set a particular angle using Free Cam and then play the battle at different speeds, the weapon effects are more on-target at a low speed than at a high speed.
I think I'll try running without mods to see if I can I can reproduce the effect, and if I can then the next step would be to try a different weapon animation.
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