Got a lot of good stuff going on this week in terms of development. But it’s also a very stressful time as we watch retailer after retailer tell us that they’re eliminating much of their PC gaming space starting 1Q2011. I wish the reason was because everything’s moving to digital. But as much as Steam and Impulse and the others have grown this past year, the real issue is the continuing migration of users to other platforms followed by the publishers.
This is going to put further pressure on the PC game industry to evolve or die.
You seem to be under the false impression that every care in a line performs exactly the same, and if one works with a game they all will. To quote one of Frogboy's dev journal's about Elemental:
Compatibility. This isn’t my area of expertise but I’m getting a new found respect for the engine coders. Talk about frustration and scary. You get one video card that leaks memory (think megs per turn) if you use feature X, but if you turn it off, then it causes alt-tab to break. You got Windows XP Sp5 with older video cards having one weird issue while first generation quad core having a different issue.
Makes me long for the days of DOS.
Today, you’ve got Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows Vista 64, Windows 7 and Windows 7 64. Then you’ve got a plethora of video cards and CPUs to go along with it along with different versions of the drivers in all these various cases.
There’s a case of white screens happening along with terrible performance afterwards on some setups. That’s been apparently fixed internally based on the checkin logs.
There’s a case where some machines aren’t even using the GPU. I’m a total lay person on that but isn’t that what DirectX is supposed to take care of? Oye. But they tell me they’ll be able to figure it out.
I'm the one missing points? When I proved you wrong about online store comment about consoles, you said "How many of those had a working store component where you could buy titles like you'd find at retail after release... not many, I'd wager none."
If you're going to knock the console DD services for poor selection when the first came out, you can't ignore the fact that the major PC DD services started out with poor selection too.
And if you're going to saying you've been arguing that consoles aren't so different from PCs, it would help if you hadn't started with "The great part about the PC platform is that it's free (as in freedom)." The only thing you can be comparing the PC to with that statement is the gaming consoles.
I am buying online only now and have been for years. Using about the same amount on games as before, or maybe a little more.
its a shame, too. As a tech enthusiast, one of the driving reasons for having the latest and greatest setup for me has always been having the high end games running like a champ. If we run out of high end games, I doubt anyone will be buying the radeon 9,000,000 series, etc. I'd almost think it would be a given that companies like nvidia and amd (ati) would develop their own games.
can't take indie away from pc or take strategy away pcs are stuck with it as well as damn mmos and few hardcore games like CSS. everything is going digital seems the 3rd fable is going to be on pc 2nd wasn't. another big thing is games like Morrowind and its following titles Oblivion and the new Fallout have got loads of mods so damn many. the main issue is compatibility hopefully my new computer doesn't want to not work with its other parts....
I use Amazon a lot myself. It's still a physical disc but not a physical store. I don't know that having no shelf space means no physical discs or PC is dying. Dear god I wish the PC dying mantra would just end. I've been hearing for 20 years now, almost as long as I've been playing PC games.
The reason for this is incredibly simple. I shall explain by giving you a brief summary of the last 3 games I have purchased for each platform:
Xbox 360:
Red Dead Redemption - Play. No errors.
2010 FIFA World Cup - Play. No errors.
Left 4 Dead 2 - Play. No errors.
PC:
Killing Floor (steam) - Multiplayer (which is the crux of the game) unable to find servers. When I do find servers (once), loading times take minutes and game lags to hell. Unplayable. Despite my PC being much better than min. specs and matching the req. specs.
Extra knowledge required: Ports, ipconfig, dxdiag, network packets, how internet works, RAM specifics.
Extra purchases required: A different modem/router 1GB or 2GB RAM, installation of RAM (optional at own risk).
Sins of a Solar Empire - Computer won't read some DVD discs. Turns out my disc drive is dying.
Extra knowledge required: Disc drives.
Extra purchases required: (For other DVD games) New DVD disc drive, installation of disc drive (if internal, optional at own risk).
Sims 3 - After a few plays, screen is black but audio works, requires workaround. Later fixed.
Extra knowledge required: dxdiag, video cards, video drivers.
Extra purchases required: New DVD disc drive (in future), installation of disc drive (if internal, optional at own risk).
Of course, that's not even mentioning the DRM and such, which is entirely the publishers'/developers' own fault.
Consoles can't have dying disk drives?
Ah true, but in-warranty they get replaced and you might get a free game for it. Out of warranty, you do have to get a new console if you're an ordinary person, however the cost of a new console is cheaper than that of a new PC, if it all goes a bit wrong.
The cost of a new DVD drive for a PC (and these days you can even upgrade to Blu-Ray) is less than the cost of a new console.
and the sky is blue.
Thank god for the warranties because the number of 360 failures would otherwise would be intolerable... right?
hahahahah....that would be thank god for EXTENDED warranties
I think I had to return my old one three times. My newer one has been fine
Well... while I agree with you to some degree, to be fair: I personally require port forwarding knowledge to be able to use my xbox 360 successfully. In the past, it worked fine. Then I'd get to a game like red dead redemption only to realize that I didn't have all of my ports forwarded appropriately which kept me from getting into many/any MP games. The same thing with connecting to harmonix's servers to import my rock band 2 cd into rock band 3. Was a pain and not magically automated. I figured it out eventually, but it wasn't the "I have a console and my problems are solved" scenario.
I think your overall point is quite valid though - simplify things and get a standard setup (eg a console) and its much easier to diagnose problems, etc. Granted you can still have internet connectivity issues and some hardware failure issues, but you reduce the possibility for random issues substantially... and therefore it becomes MUCH easier to develop for a console with those few configurations than for the millions of combinations of PCs.
Yeah, I'm not having a 'my machine has a bigger penis than your machine' contest, I was just illustrating my point by giving a history of my last 3 games on each platform.
I wasn't saying consoles get no errors, certainly nowadays (NESs are still playable and Mega Drives work like the day they were made), nor was I saying those are the only problems you get with PC games.
I don't want this thread to end up like this:
Things change. With the power of hand heald devices constantly growing, the table top PC market is dying and the laptop market has to keep up or die as well.
In what world are the games for notebooks different than desktops? I mean sure you can scale down some games to get them to run on weak mobile gpus... but they're the same games. But hey, I know you folks have been beating death drums for PC for decades, keep up the "good" work.
Evolve how? Go digital, rethink DRM, reform the publisher/developer/retailer/consumer apparatus? We're seeing that already but so far none of it is the holy grail of game sales.
I think that retail could take serious advantage of digital distribution, if it wasn't for all the physical media they have to sell.
Imagine being able to go in and download your paid-for game in store in a matter of minutes, rather than waiting hours for a dozen or so GB to transfer at home. Retail has always had the advantage of immediacy - no waiting for your game to arrive in the post or download from a server - and if it's going to survive it needs to hold onto that advantage.
Gone will be the racks of game boxes. Instead, touch screen displays will tell you the specs and details of any game the store carries, and will let you access reviews to help you make your decision (something which retail doesn't really have at the moment). If the screen recognises you in particular and knows that you have already bought games at that store, it can access your profile for those games and show you how long it took for you to complete compared to everyone else. It can also suggest new games based on your past purchases. Finally, if people have had trouble running a game on a system similar to yours, it will let you know so that you don't buy something that might not run.
While some of these things might actually make it less likely for people to buy games, it puts pressure on developers to make sure their games work when the system meets the recommended specifications, and that they provide value content for money.
Oh come on now, chief, you of all people should know better than to think PC Gaming will ever "Die" or is "Dying Out". In fact I just read a very interesting article in the latest issue of "MaximumPC" Vol 15 No 13. The article is called "2011 A Tech Odyssey" which starts on page 31 and begins with this heading and paragraph:
"PC Users are on the brink of a massive shift in technology and performance. We identify the most game-changing technologies and life-changing products for the coming year
By The Maximum PC Staff
To the PC doubters and doomsayers throughout the land, we have but one thing to say. You are incorrect. Misguided. Flat-out wrong. As we started to investigate the technologies, products, and processors that will appear in PCs and related devices in the year ahead, we realized that, from this moment on, our beloved Personal Computer is more important and more relevant than ever."
Now, granted, I'm sure your post here is referring more to PC Gaming rather than general use over-all, but, I think once the technology finishes going through the next "transitional stage" which it's going through right now as architecture changes on the market over the next few years as most home users upgrade, that we'll see a massive up-swing and resurgence of PC gaming on the market again when the next stage of new technologies (3D TV's and Gaming, TV-PC's become fully integrated) are perfected and become affordable for the masses.
I have to agree that there will most likely be a small decline before it takes back off as more main stream, but I fully expect PC's and PC Gaming to make it through any decline long enough for developers to come back to it as home users can afford more and more powerful hardware. The next generation of home PC's will be built into everything and have everything built into them. TV's and PC's are being integrated into one device now as users want to be able to browse the web and watch TV at the same time from the couch. They'll be popular and common place in the average home within the next 3-5 years at the longest. I think that within the next few years our PC's won't even look like what most of us recognize as a home PC today. Just today in fact I saw a prototype from a cube PC Gaming Rig that is more powerful than what most people are running at home now and cost about half the cost of building a comparable $2,000 rig a few years ago. Also, both Apple and Microsoft are working on models of "Table Top PC's" where the top of the table/desk you're sitting at is the actual screen of the PC you're using and it all works through a variation/combination of "touch-screen and voice activation". Your keyboard, for instance, is a built in touch pad on the screen.
Right now these systems that are being developed are expensive and still will be for the foreseeable future, but, when the average person can afford them people are going to want to "Game" on them as well, and the market for it will become even larger in the future as almost everyone will use their PC on a daily basis, even if they're just watching TV on them. Not to mention there will Always be enthusiasts and tech savvy consumers like many of us here and the many users today who call themselves "PC Gamers".
Processors alone, with the "AMD Bulldozer" and Intel's "Sandy Bridge" models will make powerful multi-core processors affordable for everyone without the need for half the user base to take a dumbed down or gimped version of a more powerful counterpart where the price difference is between 100-150 dollars for the base model to 300-500 dollars for the more powerful and longer lasting component. CPU's and Graphics Cards will be seeing explosions that make good quality powerful parts more affordable and High End Gaming more readily available to people who only buy home console systems because they can get a gaming console for 300 or 400 bucks while a powerful gaming PC can run as high as $2,500 for a system that won't need to be upgraded for 3 or 4 years.
In all honesty I think the real reason why PC gaming is taking a hit is because developers are diving into new business models that are the real thing killing PC gaming. It's these new business models combined with developers not taking advantage of multi-threading capabilities and because developers are more worried about so called "lost sales" through piracy that they either don't make PC games or they make sub standard PC games that don't take advantage of the true capabilities of the hardware that the user base has. My system here I'm using right now will be 3 years old this Christmas and I Still haven't found a game or application that even comes close to touching what my system is really capable of.
I still believe that "Cloud Gaming" will do major damage to PC Gaming as developers will want to stick with it so they can continue to milk their customer base over long periods of time and have complete control over the files that gamers have on their systems. If gamers don't actually have the game's files on their hard-drives, then there's nothing that can be shared or "pirated". As a developer your-self I hope you continue to Not go with this kind of system and to stand apart from other developers in this manner. There are many games and developers right now that are Proving that PC Games can and are making millions of dollars while still being Exclusive to the PC Gaming market, like Starcraft 2, WoW, Diablo (though I hear Blizzard is going to port Diablo 3 to consoles). Also shooters like C.o.D. Black Ops and Medal of Honor are proving that PC games are making millions on their own as the PC versions of these games often outsell their console counterparts, have better graphics than their console counterparts, and have better play controls than their console counterparts.
It's not gamers lack of wanting to play PC games that's brining down the PC Gaming market, but rather the businessmen and business practices of PC Game Makers that Are killing PC Gaming. Business models where the game makers are trying to milk their customers of money, where PC ports of games are often shoddy sub-par reflections of their console counterparts, and where support for the games in question are virtually non-existent, that are real reason why there appears to be a decline in PC gaming. If PC Game Makers actually make GOOD Games then they can be triple A hits that make millions and millions of dollars. There's tons of proof of that on the market right now. While if PC Game Makers make BAD Games then the backlash from that affects the whole PC game genre.
Gamers still want to be high end PC Gamers, they aren't the reason for the apparent decline in PC Gaming. "Business" is the real reason for the decline. If the "Business" aspect can be separated from the equation and people like Bobby Kotick can be taken out of the decision making process PC Gaming will be just fine. Unfortunately since "Money" is the Real "Name of the Game" here, that will never happen.
Sandy Bridge and Llano will be awesome for pushing up the integrated graphics level in laptops and el cheapo desktops, on that note. Laptops run the same games but a good amount of them run them poorly.
True but the statement I was referring to clearly separate PC markets and notebook markets despitet he fact that notebooks are PC and while some games will scale down not a lot of them design for a notebook trying to exclude the desktops.
They are the same machines but the capabilities are vastly different.
I agree with you but as a power user I differentiate the two.
Neither market is anywhere near dying though. They used to say netbooks would take over the laptop market, yeah we're sure missing that less than 1% of the market. Woo. Tablets? Will probably do some damage, given more time.
The market is certainly evolving but it'll be a few years before it matters. Not much point in spouting doom and gloom yet.
I'll get in line for the death drums when virtual reality and holodecks show up... course I remember when that one cowboy hologram [?] game was supposed to change everything years ago too.
No one is making anything new. WoW1, WoW2, Wow3, WoW4. Sim1, Sim2, Sim3, Sim4. FFI, FFII, FFII...FFIIX. FPS's 10 years ago are the same. RTS's 10 years ago are the same. Dungeon crawlers - same. Hey! How about those environmental effects promised to be cutting edge 15 years ago with Dungeon Keepers? Some guy got bored and made Minecraft and needs some help because the BIGBOY UNNAMED DISTRIBUTORS are just doing cut/paste and hope that no one notices. How many pigs can you kill so you can pvp (Make love not WarCraft)? How many games of Madden can you play? Let's add all the bugs they don't want to fix like ninja looting, Windows 7 has a games tab that says it keeps track of game revision and patches and doesn't. Alot of games today, they don't want to hire artists, writers, can cinamatographers so they can pocket the difference, and there is no campage, story, lore.
In short, nothing new here. Nothing to buy. So...nothing on the shelf. Blame hackers/priates. Blame funky people.
So todays kids are just too damn stupid or lazy to be able to use computers....
This means that the PC will continue to be a special gaming market where you play one game for like 5-10 years (Age of Wonders series, Half-Life & CounterStrike, WarCraft & StarCraft, Heroes of Might & Magic and the latest and coolest shooters).
I'm perfectly fine with that. Belonging to an elite instead of being one of the 100.000.000 sheep. All that's needed is crossplatform and I'm set.
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