Today we’re talking about different ways we can streamline the creation of resources. A long time ago, we wanted to put in a system where I could mine ore which could be turned into ingots and so on. Basically, one resource being turned into another resource.
I'd consider this a bearable minimum. The current system makes me want to kill small animals or something. It's a significantly more shallow end result though. You just can't abstract stockpiling with a raw only production system.
Kohan skipped the drawbacks by using a supply economy instead. Only gold is produced, units are trained instantly, and fill out to full strength at their normal resupply rate, using up resource supply in return. It skips the necessarily absurd training times because you're not stockpiling raw resources at all, thus see no benefit to last minute acquisition of the best units possible.
I prefer games with a smoother scaling. This 200-1 power curve nonsense is horrible in general. Unarmored, untrained mobs with pointy sticks would be a good starting point, but an armored knight with a steel tipped lance is only worth a hundred of them in the right situation. If I could retrain/reinforce my old, veteran units it wouldn't be too intolerable, but there still needs to be a massive shortening of the gap between weapon values. 50 attack weapons flat shouldn't exist with where the starting stats are at. As far as roles go, meh. The combat system sucks so hard that it's a lost cause right now. All we can end up with short of a significantly deeper system to utilize it is some lame RPS crap like the typical RTS game has. Hell, we wont even have morale going forward, I see zero hope of a happy end result for tactical combat. I was originally expecting something pretty lame, like the 15 year old simplicity from MoM, but those early dev journals threw me off my game and had me looking forwards to something less than craptastic.
What I want is the ability to protect that pointless tedium from spawning monsters or marauders that show up at the most ignorant times and I have no ability to counter.
The current situation is manually created caravans that randomly go boom because asshole monsters spawn in the middle of your static, and entirely pointless caravan route that can't be moved around the "magic bullshit generating forest of doom" it's passing through. This is your problem, not whether caravans are generated automatically or manually. You have dick for vision, you can't move the bleeding route around those god forsaken forests, and you can't assign reasonably appropriate defense without absurd levels of micromanagement.
Why even bother having a Caravan if all it does is provide 1 Food. Let me build a Carvan and park it in my City and forget about it. Click and forget. That is what you want right?
And you say I'm arguing for the sake of arguing. Why don't we just get rid of unit movement in general. The strategic and tactical portions of the combat system are so lame and under built that we don't really need it at all. Obviously, if I'm asking for a production transport system, it has fuck all to do with the retarded nonsense we have now.
If the Caravan system was robust enough to have a point to start with, then it would/could become an integral part of your Empire, to the point where if the other factions fool with it, war, death and destruction would ensue...
Indeed it would, but the point would not hinge on manually creating them. We have a depth problem, and we have a work problem. There's too much work for too little depth. We only need more of one, we need less of the other.
Sadly, I think we have similar interests in a more complex economy model, but you are so bitter, for some reason, that arguing, for the sake of it, is the best you can come up with.
Does this mean you actually expect the implementation of a complex production economy post release? I'm still marginally lucid to some degree, so I haven't been able to delude myself that far. All anyone here is doing is arguing for the sake of argument, a snowballs chance in hell would be damned optimistic thinking for even an expansion pack if they couldn't convince themselves to go for it initially.
And that concludes my activities in this thread. Thanks in advance.
For what? The asshole in me(most of me) says I should be saying thanks myself. I'm having a hard time believing you'd thank me for my reply since I'm basically calling your intelligence into question over this insistence that caravans be manually created.
I don't remember that part in the Lord of the Rings, where the battle of helms deep finished and everyone went out and picked up all the weapons and then used to them to make a well equipped army.
LOTR is a book written by someone with zero knowledge of war.
Not to bring up a dead thread. But you are off in two of your assumptions.
In every ancient battle it was a part of the battle to "loot" the enemy if you won. Not only did your side go and loot their bodies for weapons/armor (remember that a sword was easily 2 years earnings for a peasant, which most soldiers were, <even in LOTR> and a suit of metal armor.... well, put it this way, almost NO ONE had metal armor, that was for the uber rich, the mercenaries, and the movies in the 20th century) but the LOSING side also looted their dead. Sometimes the victorious armies (usually European) would allow the relatives of the vanquished to get their dear old dad's gear (yeah, many times the families and whole virtual towns traveled with armies). The victors figured that eventually these people would be subjects and need the weapon to defend themselves. Without an army a few ragtags with a sword are nothing for the victors to fear, but that sword may come in handy defending against a highway robber, and thus, you wouldn't have to have your own soldiers patrolling the roads.
And the second quote you have about LOTR is a book "by someone with zero knowledge of war.".... WOW, Just wow. There may actually never have been an author who knew more about war than him. Not counting retired generals and crap who write their "memoirs" which could barely be called a "book" even if they usually are fictitious like LOTR.
Anyway, feel free to read Tolkien's wiki, or watch the bonus features on the extended DVDs. Hell, just ask your english teacher. They will explain just how much JRR knew about war.
edit: no need to reply, seems someone replied to you about the Tolkien military history (briefly, and rather abridged, IMO). When I initially read it, I thought that it was a more glaring mistake then the "people don't loot people IRL" quote (I paraphrased ofc).
Anyway, JRR was a soldier, he was in a country that was AT WAR (WWII). His students sometimes left school to fight. blah blah blah etc etc etc. There is a ton out there on his fascination with war. Well, that and his need to be accepted by his buddy C.S.Lewis, but that story if for another day.
See reply 211 for a detailed explanation of why being in a war doesn't make you knowledgeable about it. The first bit of that is someone elses text as well, you quoted a quote.
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